Age question

Is there an age limit on buying everything to brew beer or wine? I was in my LHBS last night and group of young ( maybe early 20s) guys came in. Started me to thinking. If your an 18 y/o and can't buy beer. Could you brew it? As far as I know there is no age limit... Just some random thoughts while I figure a way of getting out of doing the "honey do list" .... Cheers

You need to be of legal drinking age in order to buy brewing supplies (where I am at least). Just like being able to become a member here.

Depends on the jurisdiction, I'd think. Most LHBs and mail suppliers are smart enough to realize that they'd better be 'proactive' with respect to this as are most breweries' web sites and, apparently, this forum. What possible harm can come to a 18 y/o from reading this forum? He can order DeClerck from Amazon. Should that be banned too?

I think it would be pretty easy for underage kids to get brewing equipment and supplies mail order. I've never seen an age verification on any site.

My HBS didn't have anything posted about under age sales. That's not saying they don't check.

b-boy said:

I think it would be pretty easy for underage kids to get brewing equipment and supplies mail order. I've never seen an age verification on any site.

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They would need to use a credit card on most sites. Even if they used paypal, I think it would be pretty easy to confirm age.

I also think that most kids (people under 21 ARE kids) are more interested in getting F'd up than making something great. Plus, having the patience needed to brew a batch, and properly ferment it, is [typically] beyond them. Sure, there are exceptions, but those are [IMO] few and far between.

Golddiggie said:

They would need to use a credit card on most sites. Even if they used paypal, I think it would be pretty easy to confirm age.

I also think that most kids (people under 21 ARE kids) are more interested in getting F'd up than making something great. Plus, having the patience needed to brew a batch, and properly ferment it, is [typically] beyond them. Sure, there are exceptions, but those are [IMO] few and far between.

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Good points... Hard for a 18-19 to wait for a month or more for things to be ready...

Ska brewing was started by two guys making beer in their kitchen because they were too young to buy it.

I've not ever heard of a law restricting access to brewing ingredients or equipment, but I believe it's universal (within the universe that is the US) that you must be of drinking age to homebrew legally.

It would be pretty hard to restrict access to brewing equipment, since no specialized equipment is actually needed. I don't see how you could restrict the ingredients either, because they all have non-alcoholic uses. The specialty yeasts would be extremely rare to use for anything else, and very few people do anything else with hops, I suppose. Still, given that you can brew an alcoholic beverage with table sugar and bread yeast, all a restriction would do is keep a kid from brewing something pleasant.

It wouldn't surprise me if brew shops would be hesitant to sell to someone obviously underage, though. As others have said above, while it'd be hard to make a legal distinction, as common sense everyone would know what was going on. It's in all homebrewers' interests to voluntarily comply with the spirit of the law and avoid abetting underage brewers.

Golddiggie said:

They would need to use a credit card on most sites. Even if they used paypal, I think it would be pretty easy to confirm age.

I also think that most kids (people under 21 ARE kids) are more interested in getting F'd up than making something great. Plus, having the patience needed to brew a batch, and properly ferment it, is [typically] beyond them. Sure, there are exceptions, but those are [IMO] few and far between.

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As a college student I can't disagree more. Many of my friends and I enjoy good quality beer, do we get drunk sometimes? Yes. But so do many non "kids" even people who have "the patience needed to brew a batch." Your generalization is not indicative of many "kids."

The average 16-19 YO does not have a location in which to brew without considerable chance of being discovered. My 25 YO is one who had the patience, but he didn't have the place to do it either. Just sayin, it's pretty hard to disguise what your doing when mom brings in your tidy whitey's...
Wheelchair Bob

gstrawn said:

As a college student I can't disagree more. Many of my friends and I enjoy good quality beer, do we get drunk sometimes? Yes. But so do many non "kids" even people who have "the patience needed to brew a batch." Your generalization is not indicative of many "kids."

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We are talking about underage "kids". I don't know of a single 18 year old who wants to have one craft beer in an evening. Maybe some exists, but most are not beer snobs who have a beer because they love the flavor and aroma. Most underage people who imbibe due so to get drunk.

I don't know if there is a law here in Florida but the local shop does not allow anyone under 18 in the store. If someone wanted to make alcohol they could buy supplies to make something drinkable at a grocery store. I think craft beers are an acquired taste that keeps most away.

Golddiggie said:

They would need to use a credit card on most sites. Even if they used paypal, I think it would be pretty easy to confirm age.

I also think that most kids (people under 21 ARE kids) are more interested in getting F'd up than making something great. Plus, having the patience needed to brew a batch, and properly ferment it, is [typically] beyond them. Sure, there are exceptions, but those are [IMO] few and far between.

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I had a credit card and a PayPal account when I was eighteen. So it's not out of the realm of possibility for someone underage to order everything they need online. I don't think a vendor is going to call the credit card company and ask for personal information of the buyer. They can however require a signature from someone of age at delivery if the item is specifically age restricted.
But I agree that most underage kids are looking to drink, not to handcraft a good beer.

Interestingly, there are a couple of states where it is legal to brew if you are under 21, and "under the supervision of a parent" or something like that.

In most states, however, it is not illegal to possess homebrewing equipment, but it illegal for anyone under 21 to pitch yeast into a must or wort. That's the point when it because "beer" or "wine".

In Minnesota home brew stores are considered grocery stores so anyone can buy there.

Yooper said:

Interestingly, there are a couple of states where it is legal to brew if you are under 21

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I hear in Washington that you can legally brew at age 18. But although the drinking age is 21, minors may drink legally in their home with their parents.

And I do know some minors that are very interested in brewing and drinking a good beer, but they lack the money and space.

I have a farm and raise grain. Should I be restricted from selling to an underage person because they might use it to make an alcoholic beverage? Until you pitch the yeast and the ferment begins you have grains that could be breakfast cereal or feed for the farm animals.

Golddiggie said:

They would need to use a credit card on most sites. Even if they used paypal, I think it would be pretty easy to confirm age.

I also think that most kids (people under 21 ARE kids) are more interested in getting F'd up than making something great. Plus, having the patience needed to brew a batch, and properly ferment it, is [typically] beyond them. Sure, there are exceptions, but those are [IMO] few and far between.

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But do they confirm age? I've never seen anything that indicates they do. All you need for a paypal account its a checking account.

I agree. Most 18 year old just want to get drunk. However I was pretty resourceful at that age, so don't make too many assumptions.

I don't think most underage people are ambitious enought to brew their own just to get around alcohol laws. It's just easier to get an older friend/brother to buy it for them. Even though I just found out how easy it is to make hard cider....if someone is just looking for a cheap buzz that is much easier/cheaper than brewing beer.

I bought a Mr. Beer kit from a Marshall's department store when I was 20 (12 years ago). I live in Indiana.

While it's not quite the same the other day at my LHBS there was this really sketchy looking couple. I noticed they went straight for the yeast fridge and bought some Turbo Yeast and nothing else. Now I don't want to jump to conclusions but their whole vibe was just......well sketchy. Didn't seem interested in anything else in the shop and they definetly knew they wanted the Turbo Yeast. I am guessing they must of been making some sort of high alcohol hooch or something...

Well here in ohio the law [or used to be] that anyone 18 and over are allowed to drink if its bought for them by a parent or spouse.
I suppose the same would go for brewing.

That's an interesting problem.
In most states if you're under 21 you can't drink, but a bucket or an airlock isn't contraband.
Grains and hops are exactly controlled substances either.
I'm not sure what the laws are on it but it would be hard to prevent a teenager from buying all of the things needed to make beer.
They could get a bucket from home depot and just make a blow off tube instead of an airlock, they can easily find grain to ferment and if they couldn't get brewing yeast they could find a yeast that would work.
If there would have been Internet over 30 years ago when I was a teen, I probably would have read about it and been making my own beer.

From the TTB:
Title 27
§ 25.205 Production.
(a) Any adult may produce beer, without payment of tax, for personal or family use and not for sale. An adult is any individual who is 18 years of age or older. If the locality in which the household is located requires a greater minimum age for the sale of beer to individuals, the adult shall be that age before commencing the production of beer. This exemption does not authorize the production of beer for use contrary to State or local law.

(b) The production of beer per household, without payment of tax, for personal or family use may not exceed:

(1) 200 gallons per calendar year if there are two or more adults residing in the household, or

(2) 100 gallons per calendar year if there is only one adult residing in the household.

(c) Partnerships except as provided in § 25.207, corporations or associations may not produce beer, without payment of tax, for personal or family use.

(Sec. 201, Pub. L. 85-859, 72 Stat. 1334, as amended (26 U.S.C. 5053))

I have never seen a restriction on the sale of brewing supplies/equipment, at least not in Calif.. Interestingly, there is no requirement for a brewery/distiller to ask your age for access to their website, though most do for some reason.

I got started making beer at sixteen. My dad had a kit he wasn't using and I already had a taste for good beer. So I purchased all the ingredients myself. The home brew shop owner thought it was a great way to still get good beer before I could buy it. And of course I purchased wine yeast there to make bum wine out of juice concentrate for my cheap booze.

There was a time in this country, before the development of the overly intrusive nanny state, when a person was considered an adult when they were willing to assume the responsibilities of an adult. Some are ready at 16, some aren't at 30.
I don't think anyone brews because it is cheaper or easier than just buying beer. Between fake ID's, friends and acquaintances and knowing where to go most anyone under 21 has access to all the beer they want.
If someone under the age of 21 is willing to acquire the equipment, has the patience and puts in the time and energy to brew their own beer I say more power to them.

I didn't have to deal with this issue because when I was 18 that was the drinking age in Wisconsin. The way the law reads now I could buy alcohol at a bar or restaurant for my children if they were under 18, but not if they were between 18 and 21. That is just stupidity.

helibrewer said:

Interestingly, there is no requirement for a brewery/distiller to ask your age for access to their website, though most do for some reason.

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Ugh, I hate that.

In feeble protest, I almost always refuse to bother with their website. In the few cases that I've had some reason to visit, my birthdate is 1/1/1885.

That'll show 'em.

A guy in my home brew club has been brewing since he was 18, he was always older looking, full beard and what not, so he was never questioned about his age. As I understand it the owner of the LHBS was not happy when he found out years later that he had been selling to someone under 21.

On a side note, I had a friend in high school who had 5 o'clock shadow by 7th period and was getting served at 17. If he didn't shave over the weekend by Sunday night he looked like grizzly Adams.

There is no restriction in Georgia. I often send my 20 year old son to the LHBS to pick up things. Our store doubles as a growler shop too. Alas, he cannot get a gallon to go.

I would sell a beer making kit to a 12 year old as long as they had money. As Yooper has said it is not illegal to sell the supplies or gear to an underager nor is it illegal for them to posses it. They break the law when they pitch the yeast which is not going to happen in our store. As a matter of fact a LHBS may get into trouble for NOT selling the ingredients to a child, as at that point, it is considered food! That is why you do not pay taxes on the ingredients...

I would LOVE to meet a teenager that has a proper brewery, the patience and attention span to brew. I won't hold my breath...

To all of you people doubting teenagers on here: I am 19 years old and have been researching brewing for the last two years. (Largely taste testing finer beers). Nobody introduced me to home brewing. I have been actually home brewing for about 4 months, but my interest in home brewing dates back about a year. If you were to look at my activity on here you would realize that yes, I am simply a novice, and yes I have made a few big mistakes and second guessed myself. But I have always endeavored to make it work with the help of you guys. I get actually drunk maybe once a month. I drink craft beer every night though. Beer and brewing is my passion, and to totally dismiss all teenagers as incompetent/impatient is really rather foolish IMO

hsmith80 said:

and to totally dismiss all teenagers as incompetent/impatient is really rather foolish IMO

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And to admit in an open forum that you lied about your age and date of birth when you joined in a forum that requires you to aver that you above the age of 21 when you sign up is rather foolish also IMO.

See you in two years.

Yooper said:

And to admit in an open forum that you lied about your age and date of birth when you joined in a forum that requires you to aver that you above the age of 21 when you sign up is rather foolish also IMO.

See you in two years.

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Now that's just funny stuff!

Yooper said:

And to admit in an open forum that you lied about your age and date of birth when you joined in a forum that requires you to aver that you above the age of 21 when you sign up is rather foolish also IMO.

See you in two years.

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I have never quite understood that rule. Why not also require someone to aver that they are not a resident of Alabama or Mississippi as well? Especially since anyone can access the forums without even becoming a member.

Phunhog said:

I have never quite understood that rule. Why not also require someone to aver that they are not a resident of Alabama or Mississippi as well? Especially since anyone can access the forums without even becoming a member.

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The forum admin consulted with his attorney and made the rule. If you really want to pursue an answer (which he has explained numerous times already), feel free to contact him via PM about it.

Phunhog said:

I have never quite understood that rule. Why not also require someone to aver that they are not a resident of Alabama or Mississippi as well? Especially since anyone can access the forums without even becoming a member.

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I can see several reasons for the rule.
The most obvious reason the most obvious reason is to attempt to protect yourself from anyone saying you are trying to influence minors.
Another good reason would be if a bunch of teenagers were on here most of the adults might not want to read what they had to say. Kids talking about beer might cause the board to lose good members.

45_70sharps said:

I can see several reasons for the rule.
The most obvious reason the most obvious reason is to attempt to protect yourself from anyone saying you are trying to influence minors.
Another good reason would be if a bunch of teenagers were on here most of the adults might not want to read what they had to say. Kids talking about beer might cause the board to lose good members.

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I understand...it's just that anyone can read the forums, including those under 21. I belong to a couple of fishing forums where you have to register(for free) just to read the forums. I think they do this just to keep the riff-raff out and to keep information somewhat protected.