Yeast starter.

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BrooZer

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Hey all, I just received a liberty ale clone extract kit from AHS yesterday. I want to brew tomorrow. I have never used liquid yeast before. The kit came with white labs California ale and some yeast fuel. The tube says I can pitch with out a starter but recommends one for beers over 1.070 OG.

This beer is 1.068 OG. Is it vital to make a starter? I would prefer not too because I dont have a jar with airlock or any DME. Plus I want to brew tomorrow.

If it is necessary I will get the equipment and wait to brew until this weekend.


Any opinions are greatly appreciated!!:mug:
 
You don't have to, but it really helps to shorten your lag time and give you a good vigorous fermentation. Liquid yeasts without starters can take a couple days to get rolling sometimes.
 
Torchiest said:
You don't have to, but it really helps to shorten your lag time and give you a good vigorous fermentation. Liquid yeasts without starters can take a couple days to get rolling sometimes.

What about with the added yest fuel.

Also, how long should the starter sit after fermentation begins?
 
Starters are not absolutely necessary, just don't worry if it takes a few days for fermentation to begin.

If you do make one, I would recommend making it at least 48 hours before brewing although lots of folks only give it 24. I have used both White Labs and Wyeast and have never used the yeast fuel in my starters with no ill effects.
 
I've never used yeast fuel, so I don't really know how that would affect things. I usually make my starter two days before I brew. The California is a pretty good yeast, though, so you might not need to worry about it. Some belgian yeasts and wheat yeasts start REALLY slowly without a starter to get them going, but I think that one is probably good on its own.
 
I used white labs California ale yeast and it took close to 36 hrs to start vigorous fermentation at 68 degrees. Not sure why it took so long but the LHBS guy said he makes starters for all his batches regardless of what it is "just because". I will probably take his advice and do the same.

Can't hurt anything to use a starter unless you slide on sanitization practices.
 
Starters also improve flavor, since the yeast from a starter is much less stressed than yeast pitched right into wort. It's not absolutely necessary, but it does help.
 
I have used both White Labs and Wyeast and have never used the yeast fuel in my starters with no ill effects.[/QUOTE said:
Im not sure i understand this part. Are you saying the yeast fuel has ill effects? The wording is throwing me off a bit.
 
BrooZer said:
Im not sure i understand this part. Are you saying the yeast fuel has ill effects? The wording is throwing me off a bit.

He's not saying the yeast fuel has ill effects. You have it, so go ahead and use it as prescibed. Don't worry about not ahving a starter this time, but next time give it a try. It is easy, will cut down fermentation time, and generally improve your beers.
 
BrooZer said:
Im not sure i understand this part. Are you saying the yeast fuel has ill effects? The wording is throwing me off a bit.


I think Torchiest is saying that the LACK of yeast fuel hasn't seemed to be a problem.
 
Also, I can't say for certain, but I assume that the "yeast fuel" is just some sort of nutrient blend; zinc, amino acids, some other minerals. Whenever I make a starter (which is always, when using liquid yeasts), I add a half teaspoon or so to the starter wort during the boil.
 
I'm lazy, I just pitched that vial in there. Took a day and a half but then it was krausen all over the place.
 
Alright, im going to delay brewing and make a starter. Ill make it tonight and let it sit a couple days.

Couple more questions, in the directions it says add the yeast fuel during last 10 mins of boil. Should I add it to the starter wort or the actual wort?

Also, John Palmer advocates refrigerating the starter in order to settle the yeast, then pouring off (i would siphon with baster) the starter wort to get it off the yeast cake so it doesnt affect flavor. DO you all do this?
 
I just dump the starter in--the cup of DME doesn't seem to matter all that much. Also, you don't really need to let the starter go for a few days. Even if you let it go overnight, that'll help.
 
I think you'd put the nutrient in the main wort boil. Also, I have always pitched the entire starter into the wort, but mine have all been one pint to one quart in size. Anything bigger, and you'd want to chill and decant, because that's when it'll start to affect the flavor more. If you're just doing a quart, don't worry about it.
 
Im sold on starter now that I did one last weekend for my hefeweizen. Fermentation started within 4 hours after pitching yeast. :)

I will always use one now.
 
This is probably beating a dead horse.... but... would it be possible to make a bit bigger of a starter, let it sit, and get the new yeast out to freeze? Just a thought that may be easier than getting it out of the primary.
 
One quick thing to add -- if you don't use a starter, then definitely don't skimp on the aeration/oxygenation. Oxygen in the wort is absolutely required for the yeast to propagate (multiply). Given that most liquid yeasts don't have a high enough yeast cell count to handle moderate to big beers, you are relying on propagation inside the fermenter (rather than inside a starter jar) to achieve the number of yeast cells required for a good, vigourous ferment. So one needs to ensure that the wort is well oxygenated in the fermenter, especially if there is a chance that you are 'under-pitching' your quantity of yeast.
 
Whelk said:
Starters also improve flavor, since the yeast from a starter is much less stressed than yeast pitched right into wort. It's not absolutely necessary, but it does help.

I'm just curious about how starters improve flavor and/or if stressed yeast would contribute to off flavors. I've tasted a slight solvent-like flavor in two of my brews that were started with liquid yeast cultures. I used a starter for both of them but I'm not sure if I aerated them enough. Would lack of O2 cause off flavors? Also, I've read that dried yeast doesn't need to aerated as much? Why would this be true?

Primary: Duvel Clone
Primary: Oatmeal Stout, aka the O-Spot

Kegged: Insane Irish Ale, Pale Ass Ale, and another Pale Ale aka the People's Pale
 
Drunk Munk said:
I'm just curious about how starters improve flavor and/or if stressed yeast would contribute to off flavors. I've tasted a slight solvent-like flavor in two of my brews that were started with liquid yeast cultures. I used a starter for both of them but I'm not sure if I aerated them enough. Would lack of O2 cause off flavors? Also, I've read that dried yeast doesn't need to aerated as much? Why would this be true?


I don't know about the dry yeast, but the yeast needs oxygen in order to happily produce yeast and CO2 without undesired off-flavors. Generally speaking, more the better. The lack of oxygen means that the yeast is operating at less than peak efficiency, which means it spits out weird alcohols and strange flavors. The same thing goes for yeast that's exposed to too much sugar all at once (which is what happens if you dump in yeast without a starter). The sugars overwhelm the yeast and inhibit reproduction and can cause further off-flavors. By introducing the yeast to an environment with plenty of oxygen and a manageable amount of sugar, you get the best flavors and reproduction rate.
 
I have a honey brown ale with California Ale V sitting in my primary right now. Stupid me, i didn't do a starter because i didn't want to delay brew day. It took a full 72 hours for any airlock activity. Although that includes my temperature shocking the hell out of my yeast.

Long story short, after i pitched my yeast at 80 degrees i used filler water at 50 degree to bring the batch size to 5.25 gallons. Ouch!

I've taste tested the beer and i have to say this may become my best batch after chilling and carbonating.
 
OK, s0 i made my yeast starter yesterday. I didnt make it with any hops, is that a big deal before i pitch it?
 
Whelk said:
No need to put hops in, they won't do anything for the yeast. You're all good. :D


So on brewing day all I do is pour it in the the carboy after the cooled wort is in?

Is it bad to oxygenate this already fermented beer (the starter)??
 
BrooZer said:
So on brewing day all I do is pour it in the the carboy after the cooled wort is in?

Is it bad to oxygenate this already fermented beer (the starter)??


Yep and nope. :mug:
 
If you plan on dumping the whole starter into the wort, I'd avoid doing any shaking after the starter gets going....

I usually (pronounced "both times") let my starter go for 48 hours or so, then pop in the fridge to let the workers settle for a day. I shake it whenever I walk by it for the first 48 hours.
I don't pour the whole thing into the bucket.





I'm just a new guy with a new guy opinion.
 
I've also read somewhere that it's a good idea if possible to pitch the starter during it's krausen stage because it means the yeast are actively working and reproducing which is how you want them when you pitch. If that's not possible then slightly stirring or shaking them up before pitching works well too.
 
Can you make a starter out of dextrose and no dme? I thought I read somewhere the yeast won't like the change in sugars, but I was just wondering.
 
I've heard the same thing, that they get used to a certain type of sugar, and switching it up will cause problems for them and your beer. Plus, dextrose will give you a bad flavor. I've used DME exclusively, and it serves me well.
 
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