Filling up "dead space"

I have been using a bucket in bucket mash tun for a couple of years, and it works pretty good. The only thing I really dislike about it is the fact that there are always a couple of litres (halv a gallon or so) of water under the grain bed, thus not being a part of the actual mash.

I would like to minimise the amount of water by reducing this "dead space". But how?

Someone suggested marbles, but cleaning a gazilion marbles after each mash seems like a real pain.

The best idea I have gotten so far is to put a couple of dinner plates on the bottom, but there must a more effective solution.

Any ideas?

It's okay if the solution makes both buckets unsuited for any other use. I only use them for mashing anyway

I read a post a few days ago about this, cant find the thread. They decided to use extra hot liquor (mash thin) and recirculate to even out the mash temps. I have the same mash tun set up, but never really worried because I don't have any problems hitting SG/FG. But, I will begin to recirculate for a couple minutes after I mash in, it just makes sense, and I am usually just drinking coffee while watching it mash anyway...
Hope this helps.

somedudefromguam said:

I read a post a few days ago about this, cant find the thread. They decided to use extra hot liquor (mash thin) and recirculate to even out the mash temps. I have the same mash tun set up, but never really worried because I don't have any problems hitting SG/FG. But, I will begin to recirculate for a couple minutes after I mash in, it just makes sense, and I am usually just drinking coffee while watching it mash anyway...
Hope this helps.

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That's actually how I do right now. And sure, it works. But i would prefer to minimise the dead space and skip the hassle of the extra water.

I'm batch sparging and even if I circulate the water at the beginning and end of the mash , the dead space will still be filled with water (or thin wort after the initial circulation) for the rest of the mash.. thus, you have to add more water than needed to achieve your preferred grain/water ratio.

I understand what you are trying to do, and almost anything that will occupy volume will work for you. I like the idea of glass marbles in the mash tun to occupy the space. I think that they would be easy to clean -- all you would have to do is give them a great soak in PBW or OxyClean. You would also have the ability to add to them or take away from them depending on what your initial experiences are. Dinner plates would work, but will not fill in the voids like marbles would -- they have a liquid quality to them that something larger or more solid does not have.
My thinking with going with the marbles is that I am assuming that your current mash tun design works great and that you do not get any grain in the dead space area. If that is the case, then you are really just cleaning wort off of the marbles and not cleaning any grain from them.

I am not sure that I have been that helpful. I would be interested in knowing what you finally do.

Mark

I too like the idea of marbles. I think you'll only need to PBW or Oxyclean every five batches or so, maybe even less. I'd put the marbles in a colander and rinse the hell out of them. You just want to rinse sugar and any small particulates. If they are still sticky after they dry, hit 'em again.

Thanks for your responses,

I get what you are getting at. And I to think that marbles would be a great solution. But the thing is.. I haven't done the math, but if I would to fill up half a gallon with marbles I would need more or less a billion marbles. It would be expensive to buy as well, don't you think? And even if it would be easy to just spray them of with water and clean with oxyclean once in a while, they still would be a pain to deal with.

But still. It's the best idea so far

PowPow said:

Thanks for your responses,

I get what you are getting at. And I to think that marbles would be a great solution. But the thing is.. I haven't done the math, but if I would to fill up half a gallon with marbles I would need more or less a billion marbles. It would be expensive to buy as well, don't you think? And even if it would be easy to just spray them of with water and clean with oxyclean once in a while, they still would be a pain to deal with.

But still. It's the best idea so far

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I just did a search for Glass Marbles on Amazon.com. I was surprised at the responses that came up. Here is a link to what I found. I am not sure how easy it will be for you to find them in your area, but I am surprised that they were that easy to find. A package of two hundred marbles would fill quite a volume. I am guessing that you would only need a package or two. Good Luck. Mark

You can get big bags of nearly clear glass "decor" marbles in places like Crate and Barrel or anywhere they sell lots of candle sticks and vases. Clear is nice because you see when they're clean and the big bags of them are pretty cheap.

I will be on the look out for marbles then.

Another idea i got was to use empty (caped) beer bottles. Maybe a couple of beer bottles to fill the bulk of the space and then some marbles to fill the rest.

Would empty and caped glass bottles handle the heat from boiling water you think? I'm not mashing with boiling water of course, but maybe i could preheat the tun and bottles with boiling water.

i just tip my mash tun til i get it all out

Glynn said:

i just tip my mash tun til i get it all out

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But getting it all out wasn't my problem..

I had the same problems with my Zapap. trying a suggestion for pale ale to go thick in the mash and BOYHOWDY, was it thick. Plus didn't hit anywhere near mash temp, even with recirculation. ended up adding more water to compensate for water/grain ratio and temperature.

if I don't upgrade to a real MLT by next brew day, I might go with marbles.

Just my opinion guys, but I think it's time to step away from the Zapap. I would try a single bucket w/ a braid and batch sparge, or ghetto convert just about any cooler for a decent MT and batch sparge.

I used the one below for a while w/ good results.
https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f11/ten-minute-cooler-mash-tun-conversion-125108/

wilserbrewer said:

Just my opinion guys, but I think it's time to step away from the Zapap. I would try a single bucket w/ a braid and batch sparge, or ghetto convert just about any cooler for a decent MT and batch sparge.

I used the one below for a while w/ good results.
https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f11/ten-minute-cooler-mash-tun-conversion-125108/

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A new mash tun based on a cooler is on my to do list.

But I haven't found a cooler that's big enough that doesn't cost a fortune yet.

PowPow said:

A new mash tun based on a cooler is on my to do list.

But I haven't found a cooler that's big enough that doesn't cost a fortune yet.

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Ahh now I see you are in Sveeden...perhaps a 60 litre poly HDPE drum fitted w/ a braid. Funny how coolers are not a worldwide commododity, I can't seem to walk down the street without tripping on one.

wilserbrewer said:

Ahh now I see you are in Sveeden...perhaps a 60 litre poly HDPE drum fitted w/ a braid. Funny how coolers are not a worldwide commododity, I can't seem to walk down the street without tripping on one.

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There are lots of coolers here as well, but the standard size is about 24 liters (~6 gallons). I want a bigger one, and still haven't found any cheap big ones.

But I will get to that as soon as my brewing wallet allows it
But for now, the bucket in bucket will have to do.

Good idea regarding the poly hdpe drum. Even though I would prefer a cooler that's already insulated.

PowPow said:

Even though I would prefer a cooler that's already insulated.

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Just start making bigger batches! The more massive a grain bill, the less critical the insulation.

Ahh man, this is about mash tuns. I thought someone had found a solution for the dead space inside my head

limulus said:

Ahh man, this is about mash tuns. I thought someone had found a solution for the dead space inside my head

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you're on a homebrewing forum and you wonder how to fill up space?

with beer, duh

GrogNerd said:

you're on a homebrewing forum and you wonder how to fill up space?

with beer, duh

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How perspicacious of you. But that's the real conundrum here. It was too much beer that created all the dead space. Wait a minute...I just said (typed) conundrum. Maybe I ain't so empty headed. OK we now return to the original subject.

limulus said:

Wait a minute...I just said (typed) conundrum.

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and "perspicacious"

which, in full disclosure, I had to look up

How about using a different bucket, one that will sit deeper inside the other one? like a bottling bucket inside a normal bucket?

rekoob said:

How about using a different bucket, one that will sit deeper inside the other one? like a bottling bucket inside a normal bucket?

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one I use is normal bucket inside bottling bucket, to be able to use the spigot for vorlauf/recirc/runnings and the spigot part inside is what creates the dead space, which in my case is nearly a quart.

guess I could use a regular bucket for the bottom part, but would lose the advantage of the spigot

GrogNerd said:

and "perspicacious"

which, in full disclosure, I had to look up

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So back about 1982, I was in college and watching an episode of Leave it to Beaver, yes, I was. It was an episode where Wally and The Beav were having difficulties with their paper route boss who was also just a teenager. Ward went to pay him a visit and used either perspicacious or perspicacity and I have used that word every opportunity I can since then. I even taught it to my kids when they were in middle school.

rekoob said:

How about using a different bucket, one that will sit deeper inside the other one? like a bottling bucket inside a normal bucket?

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I will look into that!

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What do you think will happen if i pour boiling water on capped empty beer bottles? Some kind of implosion/explosion extravaganza?