I have an order being shipped and the liquid yeast is supposed to be packed with a cool pack. However, it will be in shipping for 5 or 6 days which I suspect will be in a hot truck or warehouse along the way. Question is, what impact will that have on the yeast before it gets here? How do I know if the yeast is still good? (I know zero about yeast.)
Yeast temp before pitching
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robtotten
Well-Known Member
Make a starter and you should be fine.
Clementine
Well-Known Member
Yeast are tougher than you think. Although extended time periods at non refrigerated temps can lessen their viability a short shipment should not hurt them too much even at temps up to 90Deg F. The killer is if they are sitting on your porch in the sun. Then the air temp might only be 90 degrees but the box will be a lot hotter. 110 Deg starts killing them and 120 your really hurting.
No matter what make a starter no only to confirm how viable the yeast are but to make sure you have the right numbers of yeast to pitch. 1050 5 gallon brew requires 175 Billion Yeast Cells so you will need around a 1 liter starter add O2 or at least shake it often (5 times a day, the more the better.
The yeast should show signs of life within 24hrs. If it does not, it does not mean that it is dead just that something is less than ideal and you might need to re-evaluate the situation. People do have starter that take 3 days to show signs and still work, there was a whole argument on viability of the starter in the case of extended lag time. Without getting into that, it is enough to say that it is not typical or desired to have that long a lag time and the situation is not ideal.
Signs your yeast is good is not exactly the same as your normal fermentation. You are pitching around 100 Billion Yeast cells (assuming 100% viability which it rarely is) and if they are fresh and the optimum condition are meet sometimes they do their job (multiply out and start to ferment and then flocculate out) before you can even see them doing the job. If you see the typical krausen, great other wise look for the ring of scum that the proteins leave behind. Also look for CO2 off gassing when you shake the container. The real sign is a healthy layer of white yeast cells gathering at the bottom of the starter vessel. Depending on the strain it might be a thick white cake or a looser brown or anything in between. Normally you can tell the difference between trub and yeast as when swirled the trub will settle and collect quickly on the bottom and then yeast will settle on top of that with a distinct layer between them.
Clem
No matter what make a starter no only to confirm how viable the yeast are but to make sure you have the right numbers of yeast to pitch. 1050 5 gallon brew requires 175 Billion Yeast Cells so you will need around a 1 liter starter add O2 or at least shake it often (5 times a day, the more the better.
The yeast should show signs of life within 24hrs. If it does not, it does not mean that it is dead just that something is less than ideal and you might need to re-evaluate the situation. People do have starter that take 3 days to show signs and still work, there was a whole argument on viability of the starter in the case of extended lag time. Without getting into that, it is enough to say that it is not typical or desired to have that long a lag time and the situation is not ideal.
Signs your yeast is good is not exactly the same as your normal fermentation. You are pitching around 100 Billion Yeast cells (assuming 100% viability which it rarely is) and if they are fresh and the optimum condition are meet sometimes they do their job (multiply out and start to ferment and then flocculate out) before you can even see them doing the job. If you see the typical krausen, great other wise look for the ring of scum that the proteins leave behind. Also look for CO2 off gassing when you shake the container. The real sign is a healthy layer of white yeast cells gathering at the bottom of the starter vessel. Depending on the strain it might be a thick white cake or a looser brown or anything in between. Normally you can tell the difference between trub and yeast as when swirled the trub will settle and collect quickly on the bottom and then yeast will settle on top of that with a distinct layer between them.
Clem
Yeast will survive temps up to about 110 F, maybe higher.
Store in fridge as soon as you get it.
If you use liquid yeast, you should always use a starter; a starter tells you the yeast is viable, and brings the yeast cells up to the amount required for beer. If you are not going to make a starter, you shouldn't be using liquid yeast.
....... I always preach using a starter (and think you should on any new yeast), but when re-using yeast, I often forgo the starter.
Store in fridge as soon as you get it.
If you use liquid yeast, you should always use a starter; a starter tells you the yeast is viable, and brings the yeast cells up to the amount required for beer. If you are not going to make a starter, you shouldn't be using liquid yeast.
....... I always preach using a starter (and think you should on any new yeast), but when re-using yeast, I often forgo the starter.
Thanks for the replies and the information about yeast. I have never used a starter before. So, this will be something new. I found a link to White Labs in another thread about making a starter, so I will use that as a guide. I also have a bag with the label: DME STARTER - LIGHT 4 OZ which I suppose I can use. Of course, if any additional good advice is tendered here, thanks in advance.
legaleagle37
Active Member
http://www.mrmalty.com/calc/calc.html
here's a popular/easy to use online calculator to determine proper starter size
mix the DME for a 1.040 OG (10:1 ratio; 1000 ml of water to 100 grams DME)
use sanitized tin foil lid or foam stopper rather than an airlock for better gas exchange.
If you're a visual learner, go to youtube and search for 'making a starter' or similar, there are several 5-10 minute videos that cover the process well
here's a popular/easy to use online calculator to determine proper starter size
mix the DME for a 1.040 OG (10:1 ratio; 1000 ml of water to 100 grams DME)
use sanitized tin foil lid or foam stopper rather than an airlock for better gas exchange.
If you're a visual learner, go to youtube and search for 'making a starter' or similar, there are several 5-10 minute videos that cover the process well
I made the starter - which you all are correct is very easy to do. It has been 24 hours since I added the yeast. Still looks the same. Can't tell that there is really much activity. Can't tell that any light colored yeast has settled out, just some brown. I had two vials of yeast and started both in separate containers. Same results for both.
The yeast was a White Labs Trappist Ale yeast. I used 1/2 cup DME in 2 pints of water. Same ratio for both starters.
When the yeast arrived after 5 days in shipping, the cool packs were not and the yeast vials were warm. Attempting to use them in a starter may have saved me a lot of trouble if they don't perk up in the next day or so.
The yeast was a White Labs Trappist Ale yeast. I used 1/2 cup DME in 2 pints of water. Same ratio for both starters.
When the yeast arrived after 5 days in shipping, the cool packs were not and the yeast vials were warm. Attempting to use them in a starter may have saved me a lot of trouble if they don't perk up in the next day or so.
If the liquid is clear on top of the starter, pour some into an hydrometer jar and check the gravity. If the yeast is viable, it should have taken it down to somewhere around 1.010.
Sometimes you just don't see much activity in a starter.
Sometimes you just don't see much activity in a starter.
Clementine
Well-Known Member
What aeration method did you use on the starter, have you been shaking it, don't be shy give a good rouse. Then sit for 20 min. take a photo of that and then another photo an hours or two later and compare this is when you should see a distinct line of settling yeast vs trub. I posted a photo of a starter experiment I was doing on yeast escaping my flask -> link
https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f163/will-my-yeast-please-stay-my-flask-261070/
One of the photos showing the underside of two flasks the one of the right has yeast sitting on top of trub is there so you can get an idea of the color. For some reason the yeast (WLP380 grown from slant) was a bit darker in color compared with WLP001 so color variation around that white to off white is fine.
Also +1 for Calder's comment although stater FG does not mean you have good yeast reproduction it does show that something is happening and the yeast aren't totally dead
Clem
https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f163/will-my-yeast-please-stay-my-flask-261070/
One of the photos showing the underside of two flasks the one of the right has yeast sitting on top of trub is there so you can get an idea of the color. For some reason the yeast (WLP380 grown from slant) was a bit darker in color compared with WLP001 so color variation around that white to off white is fine.
Also +1 for Calder's comment although stater FG does not mean you have good yeast reproduction it does show that something is happening and the yeast aren't totally dead
Clem
I've never heard it described as such. It does lead to more research, that's for sure. Plus it stops calculating at a certain point. I have never had it actually give me a correct number larger starters, or it just seems to not calculate anything past two packages. Or steps, increments. What have you.
I gave up. Neither of the two starters every showed any activity. The liquid is a couple colors of brown. Shaking it does nothing.
I drove to my somewhat local brew store and bought two new vials. Started one of them the same as before. What a difference! That batch has a nice healthy layer of foam (krausen) and you can see the activity. I swirl it occaisionally and that really gets things going.
Evidently heat from a dark brown UPS truck does not go well with yeast. I can't help but assume both vials were dead and dead. I would have been greatly disappointed after pitching had I not tried the starters. Thanks for the advice.
I drove to my somewhat local brew store and bought two new vials. Started one of them the same as before. What a difference! That batch has a nice healthy layer of foam (krausen) and you can see the activity. I swirl it occaisionally and that really gets things going.
Evidently heat from a dark brown UPS truck does not go well with yeast. I can't help but assume both vials were dead and dead. I would have been greatly disappointed after pitching had I not tried the starters. Thanks for the advice.
