Brewing with Flour (and grains)

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pjj2ba

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Has anybody tried using flour, be it wheat, rye, corn, as an addition to an all grain recipe? As long as one uses a base malt with enough diastatic power, the flour should convert just fine. I realize the problem would be getting the flour to go into a nice suspension and not end up with gloppy balls. Maybe I could avoid this if the flour (I'm thinking 2-3 cups) was sifted into 3 gal of cold stike water while stirring and then heated to strike temperature and then mashing in with the grains. Hot water plus flour = lumpy gravy. I also realize a stuck sparge could be a possibility so I could add some rice hulls to help there.

So what do people think? I know that early beers were made using baked bread as a base. I'd like to skip the baking step. Or should I? I'm thinking there might be a pumpernickel ale in my future. However, I could just buy a loaf or two of pumpernickel and grind it up in the food processor and add it to the mash. That would cost more though - but would avoid any doughball issues.
 
Why flour, are you trying to save a couple bucks? I'm sure a bag of flour is fairly cheap but the grain isn't much more and you wouldn't have a battle on your hands.
On the other hand, doing it to take on the challenge is part of what makes brewing so addicting.
I threw a pound of grape nuts in my last AG batch. It's still in the primary so nothing to report yet aside from the fact that the mash went very well, very good flow and clear wort from the very first runnings.
Flour, on the other hand...
 
Flour should work, but here are some notes about that:

* some starches gelatenize at temps above the sacc rest temp that you will be using, which means that the starches are not accessible by the enzymes. To get around this boil the flour in water first.

* having all these fine particles and gums (since flour is basically unmalted grain) in your mash can lead to lauter problems. You can get around that with a more intensive mash schedule (step mashing). As long as you don't plan to use more than 15% I think you should be fine (just pulling this number out of my head here based on other adjuct mashes).

Kai
 
Yeah, like Kai says. I changed my mill settings recently because I was concerned my wheat malt wasn't getting a good crush. As always hind sight is 20-20 and having the Barley and Wheat already mixed together before the grind was a bad idea. Needless to say, lautering took forever because I didn't have any rice hulls or anything. A nice sludge formed on top of the spent grain about an inch thick. I had never before experienced any problems in the sparge but this was indeed a learning experience and one I won't be repeating hopefully :D.

Sounds like adventure to me hehe. Perhaps you can mimic the Pumpernickel using a combination of flaked rye, dark crystal malts and some soured mash.
 
I like the Pumpernickel idea. I think that flavor would be hard to achieve with just grains, the baking adds something.
 
check out the "craftbrewer" the Australian beer site.


The guy who runs the site and does the podcasts, sanders, makes his witbier with wheat flour.

He has his recipe listed, and his methodology on the site.


It works well for him, he speaks highly of his wit, though he is conceited.





As for the pumpernickel beer, I'd just make a rye beer and throw some crushed caraway seeds in at the boil.

but if you do use the bread, bake it for several hours at a low temperature, 100-120f, to get all of the moisture out of it, otherwise you'll never be able to achieve a sufficient grind with the food processor.



Dave
 
david_42 said:
I like the Pumpernickel idea. I think that flavor would be hard to achieve with just grains, the baking adds something.

Indeed. When most people think of Pumpernickel they thing of that lame soft stuff most US bakeries produce. Not the dense loaves from Germany that are steamed in low heat ovens for long periods of time. Finding real bread in the stores is like finding the holy grail anymore these days. How I wish we had independently owned small local stores such as bakers....but I digress....
 
doing it to take on the challenge is part of what makes brewing so addicting.

That, plus for the times when, dang, I'm a pound short of wheat malt. Or as in the case of pumpernickel, with no LHBS, and the need to brew NOW!, I can find rye flour

As for the pumpernickel beer, I'd just make a rye beer and throw some crushed caraway seeds in at the boil.

Maybe a little caraway, but I'm more interested in the molasses and cocoa powder.

Not the dense loaves from Germany that are steamed in low heat ovens for long periods of time.

I have a recipe for a swedish rye bread that I've attempted to make several times. It is very similar to pumpernickel. It always tastes great, but is VERY dense. Maybe I'll just bake this again, slice it up, let it air dry for a day (or dry in the oven - toast it maybe?), grind it up and mash away.

OK, so, If I were make a beer with a loaf or two of my swedish rye, what should the base beer style be? A brown ale? Porter? Or just go with say 8-9 lbs of Pale malt and let the bread take care of the rest of the ingredients. Only bittering hops (low level). Then how strong? 5-6% ABV or 8+% ( I generally brew 5-6% beers so I can drink more)

Hmmm, now I'm thinking about a biscotti beer.
 
ok i did noob thing as new beer brewer :( bought roasted Malted Barley powder but with what i read seems its lost cause :(. meh 10kg junk :cross:
 
A local brewpub close to me claimed that they used a low amount of flour about 1% in their mash tun.

They claimed all purpose flour, rather than wheat.

Here is a list of the ingredients on the side of all purpose flour;
BLEACHED WHEAT FLOUR, MALTED BARLEY FLOUR (IMPROVES YEAST BAKING), NIACIN, IRON, THIAMIN MONONITRATE, RIBOFLAVIN, FOLIC ACID.

Besides just thickening the mash, any thoughts on how the other minerals would effect water ions?

Thanks - Tyler
 
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