will autolyzed beer ever recover?

i'm a couple AG's in, and ended up with one of *those* packets of nottingham. after a 2 week krausen, i knew something was up... it took forever for my fg to come down. i think my beer sat on the yeast cake for about a month. i figured it would probably be okay, but that's not the case...
come kegging time, the beer tastes absolutely horrid. it tastes like i did a smash with only roasted barley =\
i havn't dumped yet, i just unhooked it and planned my next brew. now i i have dude's lake walk pale bubbling away
think my *extra dark roast* nut brown will ever not taste like snot?

I wouldn't necessarily jump to the conclusion that it is autolyzed. However, what do I know, I haven't had your beer!

To answer the original question - If it's autolyzed it won't go away.

I'm doubting autolysis after a month. Brett can clean up off aromas like autolysis.

yea i don't see how it could be autolized after a month in anyway unless something went horrible and you have killed your yeast (Aka dumped salt in your beer). Autolysis isn't just some overnight process...its a long drawn out process thats more common in wine making where it really has to sit around a LONG time.

I really feel like autolysis is another one of those homebrew myths that just really doesn't happen that much...but everyone talks incessantly about.

From what I know, autolysis gives a burnt rubber taste anyway, which is not what you're describing.

Well, I fermented a batch with not one, but two of "those" packets of Notty (and finally, 4+ days later, a good packet). Let's just say it's not pretty. Mine starts off clovey and then (as SWMBO said, and I agree with her) tastes like you'd imagine poison tastes.

I'm going to let the bottles age as long as I can stand, but I have very low expectations.

uncleozzy said:

Well, I fermented a batch with not one, but two of "those" packets of Notty (and finally, 4+ days later, a good packet). Let's just say it's not pretty. Mine starts off clovey and then (as SWMBO said, and I agree with her) tastes like you'd imagine poison tastes.

I'm going to let the bottles age as long as I can stand, but I have very low expectations.

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Doesn't sound like autolysis at all. Sounds like fermentation byproducts. Sounds like you fermented very warm. What was your temp? I think Notty's been having a lot of issues too, but I don't use it at all and never have, so I can't comment on what fermentation byproducts it gives.

So clovey (phenolics) and maybe some solvent like flavors? Not autolysis. Sounds like warm fermentation, stressed yeast from a bad pack. Not that autolysis isn't possible, but its typically not a problem with these defective Notty packs. If your beer has been consistently above 80F, then I'd say autolysis is possible.

MattHollingsworth said:

Doesn't sound like autolysis at all. Sounds like fermentation byproducts. Sounds like you fermented very warm. What was your temp? I think Notty's been having a lot of issues too, but I don't use it at all and never have, so I can't comment on what fermentation byproducts it gives.

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Fermented between 64-68F, according to the stick-on fermometer (which has generally been accurate). It was the recalled Notty: virtually no activity until I could get my hands on a fresh packet, 4+ days after first pitching (at which point it took right off).

I can only guess there was a relatively weak infection that caused the poison-like off-flavors (and probably the initial impression of phenols), but was eventually overcome by the yeast. Autolysis from the two packets of dead/weak yeast? I don't know, but I suppose it's possible. But definitely nasty stuff caused by the very slow start (which is what I think actually happened to eggbeater59's beer).

I agree with Edcculus, it's not autolysis, that would be smelling like gorilla poop in a diaper left on a desert highway for 3 days. It's really difficult to have autolysis in our homebrew.

Seems like phenolics to me.

I will say I have had some experience with off flavors from too high fermentation actually cleaning up with time, a long time. So I might just walk away from it for a few months, before deciding to dump or not.

I talk about it here. https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f39/ne...virtue-time-heals-all-things-even-beer-73254/

Your mileage may very, but it's worth a shot.

If it is phenols you will never get rid of those flavors. IMO, what you describe is phenolics and solvents caused from 1- defective Notty, 2- from a fluctuating temp (w/a defective yeast 4-6 degress is a lot), 3- the slightest of Chloramines from water used, and 4- lag time. Notty is a very tempermental yeast. When treated right it is a fabulous fermenter, but when it is slightly disrupted it can change a beer dramatically.

If you taste cloves or "bandaids" now, it will not disipate over time. I brewed a cream ale and upon transfer to secondary I noticed a medicinal smell, phenols. I racked it and kept it in my basement at a steady 65*F for a year and it still had phenols.

If you taste solvent like flavors (resembling vodka) it is mainly a byproduct of high fermentation temperature. You can probably blame both off flavors from the defective Notty.

Dump and run. No need to hold up your bottles for 12 months as phenols never go away. Or you can, like I did, muscle through and drink every last one in hopes that the flavor will improve with time. I can assure you phenols never go away.

hmm, well that sucks. when i was racking it, it had a very strong stench of apple cider. when it was sitting in the secondary, i also noticed a few bubble clumps on top. these didn't grow after a few days, so i didn't think it was bacteria... but i dunno now? it doesn't taste very phenoly, just... burned. i think i'm gonna let it sit for a bit, it couldn't hurt to have another corny around anyways.

eggbeater59 said:

hmm, well that sucks. when i was racking it, it had a very strong stench of apple cider. when it was sitting in the secondary, i also noticed a few bubble clumps on top. these didn't grow after a few days, so i didn't think it was bacteria... but i dunno now? it doesn't taste very phenoly, just... burned. i think i'm gonna let it sit for a bit, it couldn't hurt to have another corny around anyways.

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Contrary to what Willie3 might think. We don't know what is going on with your beer. We're not there to taste and smell it. And honestly taste is subjective, one person's clove could be another person butterscotch (sort of) I tend to take a person's description with a grain of salt.

All any of us have, no matter how experienced we may be, is conjecture.

We're not there. So we don't know if it phenols, or anything else for that matter.

So don't get bummed out yet. Like you even said, you're going to sit on the keg for awhile, anyway. So in a few months we'll have a better idea. Then you can decide to dump or not, and if you are lucky you will end up with some drinkable beer.

But the only way you'll know, if to shove it in a closet.

I wouldn't hold on to it. I mean if you know you used defective yeast and it tastes like burnt plastic, I'm thinking you've got a ****ty batch of beer on your hands. It may get better, but this batch will likely never be great. I'd dump it. Maybe save a bottle or two if you're really curious, but ****ty beer becoming average over time is just a waste of space in my opinion.

Revvy said:

Contrary to what Willie3 might think. We don't know what is going on with your beer.

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What I wrote was "If" not that I know but "If" followed by an experience I had with phenols.

You are right Revvy, taste and smell are subjective, but excessive lag time in fermentation and crappy yeast are not. This may explain the off flavor associated with his beer, but again your correct in saying that we just don't know.

I may have been a bit strong with my opinion, but it came from seeing inferior product use, and I have to admit, I use Notty alot, and got burned more than once from the recalled product.

and (not related to this issue) with the presence of Phenols, time does not heal all wounds.