When is primary done, does it vary?

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Randy_of_Neuron

Randy_of_Neuron

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Hey everyone,

I am super new to this. Just got my first kick and have a batch of Irish Stout fermenting now. Now I choose to use WyEast (liquid) because I was told it was better. The first day it bubbled like crazy (after 8 hours) It as bubbling about once every second or faster. That was Friday. It is now Monday and it has slowed down quite a bit. 22 seconds between burps.

So is this a normal rate of decline? If it stops all together do I put it in the secondary even if a week isn't up yet.

One guy told me that 90 secs between burps, put it in the secondary.

Oh, and I don't have to add anything to the secondary from what I see in the instructions, it just goes in and the airlock goes on top and I wait. Is that right?

Thanks a million in advance.
 
the rate of fermentation is about standard, but it can vary wildly, and you will soon get told here to trust your hydrometer, and not the bubbles, fascinating as they are.

Your friend, who said put it in secondary at 90 second bubbles? Never listen to him again. Kill him if you have to. If you want to secondary (Many don't) then give it 7-10 days before racking it to secondary. That would be a good time to take the first hydro reading, and even get a little taste so you know how it tastes at that stage. Sanitize everything diligently.
 
Fermentation normally finishes from anywhere from 2 days to a week. Once it's done you can transfer it into a secondary. You should determine whether its done with a hydrometer reading though. If you wait a week though you will probably be fine. It's OK to leave the beer in the primary for a bit after fermentation is done, as long as it's not more than 3 weeks (though some get away with doing this).
 
I have a fermenter that doesn't bubble at all because it doesn't always seal completely. Use a hydrometer. I start taking measurements every 2-3 days after at least a week, maybe 2. When they're the same 3-4 days in a row, it's done fermenting. However I'd leave it in the primary at least a week after that to mature. This is just my personal style however, some people transfer it to the secondary as soon as it is done fermenting and there's absolutely nothing wrong with doing that instead. I'm just lazy.

You're doing a stout, which would mean 2 things to me. If it's heavy, with a high original gravity, it can take a few extra days to ferment. And because it's a dark stout, I wouldn't fret about using a secondary to clear it up too much.

No worries. No matter what, you've got beer in there now. :mug:
 
The general "rate" and "time" of fermentation is indeed general but keep in mind these are accepted averages. For your Stout, yes, 7-10 days is an accepted norm. But like Gnome said... "Your friend, who said put it in secondary at 90 second bubbles? Never listen to him again. Kill him if you have to."

Watching and/or counting the bubbles has no validity to the success of fermentation. For general purposes, 7-10 in primary. You can rack to a secondary if you are so inclined, but you'll find little return for your efforts for most beers. Most just leave in fermenter for about a 4 weeks. YMMV.
 
I used to transfer into the secondary quickly also. Thanks to information from HBT however, I now leave my beers in primary much longer.
I usually give it a little over two weeks in the primary and maybe a week in seecondary and have seen a notable improvement in my beers.
 
You will find that many of us leave our beers in primary for 3-4 weeks, skip secondary and bottle. Just search for the 10,000 threads under "long Primary" or "no secondary" and you will see all the resaons why we do it, and the explanations behind...There's at least one thread a day on the topic, so it's really not hard to find the discussion pretty much hashed to death.

Even Palmer recommends not rushing the beer out of primary.

From How to Brew;
Leaving an ale beer in the primary fermentor for a total of 2-3 weeks (instead of just the one week most canned kits recommend), will provide time for the conditioning reactions and improve the beer. This extra time will also let more sediment settle out before bottling, resulting in a clearer beer and easier pouring. And, three weeks in the primary fermentor is usually not enough time for off-flavors to occur....
Click to expand...


Basically don't be too much in a hurry to move your beer....you wil find that your beer will benefit from increased time in primary....many of us believe, even better than using a secondary...


More from Palmer...

The fermentation of malt sugars into beer is a complicated biochemical process. It is more than just the conversion of sugar to alcohol, which can be regarded as the primary activity. Total fermentation is better defined as three phases, the Adaptation or Lagtime phase, the Primary or Attenuative phase and a Secondary or Conditioning phase. The yeast do not end Phase 2 before beginning Phase 3, the processes occur in parallel, but the conditioning processes occur more slowly. As the majority of simple sugars are consumed, more and more of the yeast will transition to eating the larger, more complex sugars and early yeast by-products. This is why beer (and wine) improves with age to a degree, as long as they are on the yeast. Beer that has been filtered or pasteurized will not benefit from aging.

The conditioning process is a function of the yeast. The vigorous, primary stage is over, the majority of the wort sugars have been converted to alcohol, and a lot of the yeast are going dormant; but there is still yeast activity. During the earlier phases, many different compounds were produced by the yeast in addition to ethanol and CO2, e.g., acetaldehyde, esters, amino acids, ketones- diacetyl, pentanedione, dimethyl sulfide, etc. Once the easy food is gone, the yeast start re-processing these by-products. Diacetyl and pentanedione are two ketones that have buttery and honey-like flavors. These compounds are considered flaws when present in large amounts and can cause flavor stability problems during storage. Acetaldehyde is an aldehyde that has a pronounced green apple smell and taste. It is an intermediate compound in the production of ethanol. The yeast reduce these compounds during the later stages of fermentation.

The yeast also produce an array of fusel alcohols during primary fermentation in addition to ethanol. Fusels are higher molecular weight alcohols that often give harsh solvent-like tastes to beer. During secondary fermentation, the yeast convert these alcohols to more pleasant tasting fruity esters. Warmer temperatures encourage ester production.
Click to expand...

This is NOT about secondary vessels, it's about the secondary phase of fermentation....the clean up phase. People often confuse the two.

I firmly believe that it is negated by rushing a beer from primary to secondary too soon...and it comes from a "fear the yeast" mentality from over 30 years ago, when there were limited amounts of yeast availbale, and it was usually hard crappy already weakened cakes.

Don't rush your beer....it will thank you for it.
 
And please read this about why you shouldn't use airlock activity as anything other than how much excess co2 is being vented..because that all an airlock is, as fun as it is to watch, it is a pressure release valve, not an fermentation gauge. It is there to keep from blowing the lid off your fermenter and painting the ceiling with your beer...it is NOT an accurate gauge of activity...

https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f39/no-fermentation-110495/#post1217925
 
Laughing_Gnome_Invisible said:
the rate of fermentation is about standard, but it can vary wildly, and you will soon get told here to trust your hydrometer, and not the bubbles, fascinating as they are.

Your friend, who said put it in secondary at 90 second bubbles? Never listen to him again. Kill him if you have to. If you want to secondary (Many don't) then give it 7-10 days before racking it to secondary. That would be a good time to take the first hydro reading, and even get a little taste so you know how it tastes at that stage. Sanitize everything diligently.
Click to expand...

You are a funny man, I always enjoy your comments. Now what happens if he really does kill his friend?;)
 
My process does include the bubbles, so I am sure I will be shot for that...

I leave my brew in primary for 10 days + however long it takes for the bubbles to slow to more than 20 seconds (Whichever comes later). then rack to 2ndary, until i see clarity. (I can actually see the stuff settle out, it is like a line that slowly moves down the beer for about 4 days until it reaches the bottom of the carboy.
 
moger777 said:
It's OK to leave the beer in the primary for a bit after fermentation is done, as long as it's not more than 3 weeks (though some get away with doing this).
Click to expand...

More like several months......Even Palmer says at the end of the section on the bogeyman that we call autolyses....

As a final note on this subject, I should mention that by brewing with healthy yeast in a well-prepared wort, many experienced brewers, myself included, have been able to leave a beer in the primary fermenter for several months without any evidence of autolysis.
Click to expand...

It never ceases to stop amazing me as to how many new brewers seem to miss that part of the section..I think they get so scared of the worst case scenario that he talks about, that they miss the close of the section.

You gotta remember, 99% of the time you are using healthy yeast. If your yeast if not out of date (or even not too far out of date) your yeast is healthy.

And most new brewers, then ones that are most freaked out by leaving the beer on the yeast, are using healthy yeast....it become more of a risk, if you are repeatedly pitching on the same cake, using bottle harvested yeast without making a large enough incremental starter, and other similar situations, where that particular bogeyman could be an issue....but 99% of the time you aint gotta worry...and can actually let the yeast do their thing post fermentation.....
 
JesseRC said:
You are a funny man, I always enjoy your comments. Now what happens it he really does kill his friend?;)
Click to expand...

An adventageous culling from the shallow end of the beer advice gene pool? :)


For the OP: Seriously though, listen to what everyone is telling you: while the airlock can be used as a decent gauge to tell you that fermentation is taking place. It isn't infallible and it doesn't tell you the whole store. Learn to love your hydrometer.
 
Revvy said:
More like several months......Even Palmer says at the end of the section on the bogeyman that we call autolyses....



It never ceases to stop amazing me as to how many new brewers seem to miss that part of the section..I think they get so scared of the worst case scenario that he talks about, that they miss the close of the section.

You gotta remember, 99% of the time you are using healthy yeast. If your yeast if not out of date (or even not too far out of date) your yeast is healthy.

And most new brewers, then ones that are most freaked out by leaving the beer on the yeast, are using healthy yeast....it become more of a risk, if you are repeatedly pitching on the same cake, using bottle harvested yeast without making a large enough incremental starter, and other similar situations, where that particular bogeyman could be an issue....but 99% of the time you aint gotta worry...and can actually let the yeast do their thing post fermentation.....
Click to expand...

Here is some additional info on the autolysis panic from an experiment i did unintentionally...

https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f14/autolysis-101230/index6.html#post1274099
 

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