Denver CMC group grain buy #6

All,

Musketear has seemingly disappeared and so we will need someone to step up to the plate and take charge of this one. I don't really want to handle the money since I won't be buying anything this round but I am still willing to open my garage for the delivery.

I had some email correspondence with Jason today and here is the summary.

• The price is now at $1 per pound for all malted barleys.
  
• They now have what they are calling "Colorado 2 Row".
  
• They have the Belgian on hand.
  
• The price of the malted wheats will be $1 per pound as well.
  
• They currently have about 200 pounds of White Wheat on hand.
  
• They are offering a discount for 5,000 pounds of 2 cents per pound.
  
• They are offering a discount for 10,000 pounds of 5 cents per pound.

All,

I decided to quote Jason's responses to my emails so everyone would have the same information and see that there is no animosity with regards to the price increase. On the contrary they still want our business but the economy and demand are forcing the higher prices.

Matt,

Wow looking great! Yes we still have the Belgian so order away...Also, we do have a little Malted White wheat. like 200 lbs in stock. Also, $150.00 to deliver is correct.

Very Sorry about this: but price increases are attempting to eat us alive - plus we are already getting slammed in 2012 and we do not have near the capacity to keep up....

After our corporate meeting Jan 1, 2012 our new price on Colorado Base Pale, Colorado Pilsner and Belgian Style Pale and our new Colorado 2-Row is $1.00 per pound straight across the board.

All Colorado products are going to be a little more expensive in 2012. We appreciate your support!

Over 5000 lbs for discount.

Cheers,

Jason K. Cody

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Matt,

We feel bad too...and love working with you all, but we are a very small malt company and we have to make things work for us too...we appreciate your patronage and your willingness to work with us to get Colorado Brewers Colorado Grain in their beer.

Our 5,000 lbs discount is:

$0.02 per lbs - So over 5000 lbs is $0.98

10,000 lbs is $0.05 making it $0.95 - If you want to shoot for that, I would understand.

Thanks! With all the costs going up that is the best I can do.

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We are at a dollar on the malted wheat as well.

Thanks Again!

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Do we want to delay this buy a couple months until everyone needs grain and we can hit 10k lbs...or is this even possible for us? Is the new CO 2row on the website? Can't check at the moment. What are the differences? Matt, how long until you think you'd need grain?

10,000 pounds should be doable. The May 2011 buy was over 6,000 and the October buy was over 4,000. However price may play a big part in this buy. Even with the 5 cents discount (= 5%) the price will be $47.50 per sack. At 10,000 pounds the shipping works out to 75 cents per sack so the total per sack price would be $48.25.

At this price I will likely just use my monthly newsletter 15% discount at Brew Hut and get a sack of whatever pale/2 row they have the best price on.

Don't get me wrong, I really like the CMC product and I want to support them but I like Brew Hut and want to support them as well. At the higher price for the CMC grain there is no longer any incentive to go in on the group buy.

CMC appears to be changing the website. The only information I have on the "2 Row" is what is contained in the above email.

Stretch said:

Do we want to delay this buy a couple months until everyone needs grain and we can hit 10k lbs...or is this even possible for us? Is the new CO 2row on the website? Can't check at the moment. What are the differences? Matt, how long until you think you'd need grain?

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Wow I'm probably pulling out of this one. $50/sack is no group buy price. I get it for that price from the local store.

That's unfortunate about the price increases. Coupon at BrewHut will be cheaper for me as well, so I have to pull out too

Not to hijack in another direction, but you think brew hut would give us a slight bulk discount? The coupon is good, but it's only one bag at a time. It is a bummer that CMC had to raise prices. Hopefully it doesn't translate to other maltsters increasing too.

I will also have to pull out of the group buy With the price and the cost of gas and time for me to come down to Denver from FC. Sorry guys.

Chromados

Stretch said:

Not to hijack in another direction, but you think brew hut would give us a slight bulk discount? The coupon is good, but it's only one bag at a time. It is a bummer that CMC had to raise prices. Hopefully it doesn't translate to other maltsters increasing too.

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I doubt it. But you can get a coupon every month. So you need for than 50 lbs of base malt a month?

Sorry but I am out of this one as well. I love CMC, but the new price just kills it.

just got into the group buy last round for the first time and brewed today with it (just got a grain mill for xmas). too bad the prices are jumping (25%). it looks like they/we are not the only ones dealing with this. wonder how this will effect prices across the board for barley. sam adams is looking at a 30% price increase of their barley. might just be the sign of the times. although barley production is expected to rise in 2112, guess we will just see.

Boston Beer Co. Expecting Price Increases in 2012 : Brewbound.com

I noticed that Great Western has an office in Aurora. I searched and didn't find whether or not anyone had ever tried them before. Anyone know?

He all-

I don't have a need now as tax season is upon us and my weekends will be spent working for the next several months. BUT, would definitely be in for a few sacks come May/June.

Not so stoked on the price change... I can get 50# through brewmasters warehouse for $65 with brew builder discount.... Are there any other malt companies with lower prices?

benbradford said:

Not so stoked on the price change... I can get 50# through brewmasters warehouse for $65 with brew builder discount.... Are there any other malt companies with lower prices?

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Brew hut's sacks are about 45 I believe

benbradford said:

Not so stoked on the price change... I can get 50# through brewmasters warehouse for $65 with brew builder discount.... Are there any other malt companies with lower prices?

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When I was in Brew Hut today they had sacks of Rahr for $48.95. If you use your monthly 15% discount that works out to about $44.80 including tax.

Sorry if this is off topic, but...

Why is grain so much cheaper in the midwest and pacific northwest compared to the Front Range? For example, I have found 50 lb. sacks of 2-row for $29.25!

I'm not trying to say that there is a conspiracy or anything, but I just want to understand why if there's a good reason. My LHBS charges $48 (not including tax) for Rahr. Is it that the malting operations are closer so there's less transportation costs, etc.?

Not sure dy, but with the number of breweries and homebrewers here in CO I would bet the demand is quite high. $1.00 per lb for cmc is still quite a bit cheaper than buying the same grain at the brew hut.

riverfrontbrewer said:

Not sure dy, but with the number of breweries and homebrewers here in CO I would bet the demand is quite high. $1.00 per lb for cmc is still quite a bit cheaper than buying the same grain at the brew hut.

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Actually its more than the Brew Hut as Dahoov has pointed out. Plus we are skipping the middle man and buying in bulk. The grain should be much cheaper than the LHBS. I think we need to contact CNC and let them know they are loosing their homebrew bulk buys with the price increase. Maybe this is what they want? Would they rather deal with larger companies that buy 10 times as much?

acefaser said:

Actually its more than the Brew Hut as Dahoov has pointed out. Plus we are skipping the middle man and buying in bulk. The grain should be much cheaper than the LHBS. I think we need to contact CNC and let them know they are loosing their homebrew bulk buys with the price increase. Maybe this is what they want? Would they rather deal with larger companies that buy 10 times as much?

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Actually I pointed out that Brew Hut has Rahr grain for $48.95. When I was in I noticed they DO NOT carry the CMC grain (at least on display in the grain room). I know I have seen it there in the past, and I believe I recall it being about $65.

Yep they dont need our business:
Colorado farmers making hay by malting their own grains | First Drafts

It seemed apparent to me that this was a supply-and-demand-related price increase. A 33% hike in price is pretty steep, but they are a small company. They're going to have a higher overhead than bigger companies. Given that lots of local breweries also want to have Colorado-grown ingredients (notice how many "Locally grown hops" beers there were last year), I can see how the demand has gone up.

It looks to me like they are selling the grain to us at the same price they sell it to everyone else. There's just more demand, so the price has gone up. The extent of the price increase is unfortunate, but they are running a business. It's still cheaper than grain by the lb. at the store, it's good stuff, a local business, and the customer service has been good (for me, at least). I'll likely participate in a future group buy even if this one doesn't go through.

I'd be really interested in their malted millet, but I don't know if it would ever be available to us lowly homebrewers. I don't think we can buy through Great Western unless one of us is a business owner somewhat brewing related. It may be worth a shot though, or someone schmooze BrewHut for a grain by mass quantity discount. The price on Rahr is pretty acceptable though. Time to turn my yard into a barley field I suppose.

acefaser said:

Yep they dont need our business:
Colorado farmers making hay by malting their own grains | First Drafts

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Cool, thanks for posting that. Since my original post, I have done a little research on where barley is grown and malted. I looked at GW, Rahr, Malteurop (MT) and where their malting operations are. CMC is the only actual malting operation anywhere near the Front Range. The rest are (not surprisingly) near the major barley growing areas.

My conclusion is that prices are much less in the pacific northwest and midwest because the malting operations are nearer to them. I agree that we are lucky to have CMC and want to support them, but it's difficult to be a homebrewer around here!

The one exception is that GW does have a distribution center in Aurora, but it's strange that you never see it in LHBS's (do any of you?). I wonder if anyone has ever tried to get a group buy going with them. They may have a no clubs rule and only sell to retailers.

Decided to try fiftypoundsack for my grains this time.

Still kind of bummed that we pay so much more on the front range but, as they say, 'whatever the market will bear'! I guess it helps the LHBS's stay in business and that's a good thing.

I talked to a guy at my LHBS (Hop to it) and he said they could work something out for a bulk purchase. I have yet to hear back from them on it.

I also contacted The Country Malt Group who have a distribution warehouse in Denver, but have not heard back from them yet.

I'll definitely let you all know if I hear back from anyone.

Why don't you guys try to buy from Country Malt Group. I buy sacks of Canadian Malting 2-row for right around $30.

I think I am going to bow out of the grain buy this time. The LHBS seem to offer a comparable price and both Stomp them Grapes and The Brew Hut have a frequent buyer rewards program

OK, I've heard back from Brewer's Supply Group (in Denver):

Sorry, but we do not sell to clubs. It would undermine the business we do with home brew supply shops.
Best of luck!

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1234 said:

Why don't you guys try to buy from Country Malt Group. I buy sacks of Canadian Malting 2-row for right around $30.

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They sell individual bags to homebrewers?

The Tennessee folks buy grain and cleaning chemicals from them by the pallet. 42 sacks of grain fit on a pallet. Good luck and if you need any further information feel free to PM me.

Semi off topic. But does anyone know if any of the homebrew stores in the area are willing to sell dme in bulk? Even if I have to order and wait until the store places their order. I was buying from north country malt before moving to Denver a few months ago and am trying not to pay 160 plus shipping. Not ready to jump into all grain anytime in the near future.

All,

I found a guy that does a group buy from Country Malt Group. He indicated he will start taking orders for the next buy sometime in March. He has not checked on prices this year so we may be in the same boat as with CMC as far as a price increase.

He uses personal email to disseminate the information about the buy and to take orders.

If you interested in getting information from him when he starts setting up his buy please send me your name (first and last) along with your email address.

Since I do not have a premium account with HBT and thus am limited to 5 PM's please send your information to my personal email address and I will forward it.

My email address is dahoov at The Google email service. Make the subject line something with the group buy or your email may get sent to my junk box accidentally.

Thanks Dahoov. I tried to email Country Malt Group with no response. Lets hope they have better pricing.

Its not all about price for me.

acefaser said:

Thanks Dahoov. I tried to email Country Malt Group with no response. Lets hope they have better pricing.

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This was CMG's response to me:

Unfortunately the only way we could sell to you, is if you or one of your associates opened a homebrew shop. It would need to be either bricks and-mortar, or sell online via a website. We do not allow Craigs List or Ebay online homebrew shops. Also, it would need to be located in a commercial neighborhood. We do not sell to businesses located in residential neighborhoods. We will require a copy of your business license and resale permit before we can sell to you.

The other option is to get your federal commercial brewery license. It is possible you or your associates are already over the legal limit of 200 gallons per year for personal use? If you are giving your beer away, why not sell it? We will need a copy of your TTB license (Brewer's Notice) from the feds before we can sell to you.

Best wishes. Sorry we cannot sell direct to consumers.

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I am still waiting to hear from my LHBS on a bulk purchase price.

I got the same response

It sounds like we are back to square one then? With CMC still being the best price? I have never purchased in bulk from any of our LHBS's so if they are in the mid $40 range for Rahr or GW I am still going for CMC.

Should we try to get a CMC buy together for later in the Spring when we may be able to get a larger buy together?

Thanks go out to all those here that are/have been working on this and exploring other options.

RFB

Someone still needs to come forward to arrange a buy.

RFB??

I will not be participating as I have enough to last me till the fall, but my garage is available to receive the delivery.

I'm confused. Aren't all the other bulk buy posts going through country malt group already? I was under the impression when they changed their rules that as long as you were buying some minimum amount (x number of palettes) they could set it up.

I purchased a single bag of malt extract from them about a year ago. I believe anyone who purchased prior to the rule change is grandfathered in. Maybe they are starting to crack down on it though.

mosquitocontrol said:

I'm confused. Aren't all the other bulk buy posts going through country malt group already? I was under the impression when they changed their rules that as long as you were buying some minimum amount (x number of palettes) they could set it up.

I purchased a single bag of malt extract from them about a year ago. I believe anyone who purchased prior to the rule change is grandfathered in. Maybe they are starting to crack down on it though.

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I dont know how they are doing it in other places. I tried emailing them and told them I use to go in on a group buy in Tennessee (flat out lie) and moved to Colorado and hoped to do the same with them here . They emailed me back with the same response posted above.