All Grain or Keg?

Kaiser said:

I also bring the first run-off to a boil before I lauter again. This gets most of the hot break out of the way when I still have a lot of head room in the pot.

Kai

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Now that's a great idea. Thanks Kai. I too use a 30 qt brew pot and with my boil off rates I really need at least 28 qts in the pot (if not 30) to get 5 gallons into the fermentor. While I haven't had a serious boil over yet, I'm pretty uncomfortable for the first 15 or 20 minutes of the boil.

Like Yoop mentioned, you can work towards AG while using extract. Full boil & wort chiller, then cooler and HLT. With kegging, it's all or nothing. So, if you've got a chunk of change to spend, kegging may not be a bad option. Then, you can piece together an AG system as you go.

BNVince said:

Yeah! :rockin:

Actually, this is all very informative. Still I don't see how people are getting in to AG brewing without spending a decent amount of coin. $50 for a cooler (without shipping), $50 for burner and pot, $50 for wort chiller, and whatever all the misc. stuff adds up to. I would say I need to invest around $200 to get there and it would most likely be more than that.

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Going all grain cost me about $50.

30qt Stainless Turkey Fryer and Burner on closeout $30.
36 qt Square Cooler at a yard sale $1
Stainless steel braid $7
Assorted fittings and short piece of copper tubing $3
Vinyl valve $3
Rubber stopper and tubing $5

I plug the drain hole with the stopper, run the copper tubing thru the stopper and attached the stainless braid to the copper tubing. Works well, though you do have to be careful about bumping it or you might get a leak.

To chill my wort, I put the brewpot in a water bath in my bathtub and drop a couple of 2 liter soda bottles that I've filled with water and frozen directly into the brewpot. The only thing a I worry about is that the bottles break. There certainly is a lot of cracking and noise going on at first. I'm afraid that is a disaster waiting to happen, but I haven't had the cash to get me chiller yet. So a chiller at $50 would bring my total to $100 for all grain.

Are there other things I'd like? Certainly, but if you are cheap and determined to go all grain it can be done for less than $50.

BNVince said:

Still I don't see how people are getting in to AG brewing without spending a decent amount of coin. $50 for a cooler (without shipping), $50 for burner and pot, $50 for wort chiller, and whatever all the misc. stuff adds up to.

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I posted a bit druck here last night, but today I realized why you're hearing such wildly varying numbers on what it costs to go AG...

Because some of the equipment you're considering to be "AG" equipment many of use had for extract batches. For instance, I had a 7.5 gallon turkey fryer on my second batch - I learned quickly that my stovetop was to small to make ANY beer. I consider my turkey fryer to be a "basic" brewing supply.

I think I would approach the decision based upon how much you brew/consume. If you brew infrequently and only have a couple of brews a week, I would say go AG.

If you are like me and like to have several a night and need to brew often to keep up with demand, I would go with kegging. I really hated bottling and saw it as a huge chore to do when I'm brewing 10 gallon batches. So kegging has been a huge pay off as it takes way less time and is less of a chore.

That said, I went AG first then went to kegging. If I could have done it differently, I would have. Hind sight and all that.

+1 for going AG first.

I bought a burner and IC after 3 extract batches, then converted a cooler shortly thereafter. I somehow managed to do a dozen or so AG brews without being able to do full boils.

4 months later and I finally have all my kegging gear, but kegging requires more of an investment as previous posts have pointed out.

I've not made the jump to AG or kegging as of yet myself. If money was no object, I'd take kegging over AG. I really, really, don't like bottling. It's probably the one part of brewing that I procrastinate on (not always a bad thing ).

Well after careful consideration and lots of help from this thread I have decided. All Grain it will be.

The clincher: I figured out it would cost me $20 to brew a batch of Ed Wort's Hause Pale Ale. $20!!! That is so cheap compared to extract brewing that I can't say no.

BNVince said:

Well after careful consideration and lots of help from this thread I have decided. All Grain it will be.

The clincher: I figured out it would cost me $20 to brew a batch of Ed Wort's Hause Pale Ale. $20!!! That is so cheap compared to extract brewing that I can't say no.

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Hey either way, you wouldn't be disappointed. Going AG or kegging is a nice decision to struggle with. Enjoy

Since the decision should really be based on accurate numbers, and I haven't seen much of the breakdown here for kegging, let me give that a whirl.
We'll assume a modest 2-keg setup for starters.
Kegs - $40-60
fridge or freezer - $0 - 500, depending on your resourcefulness. I am capping this to $100 for the high calculation below assuming some resourcefulness.
2 Faucets/shanks - $60
Disconnects/ tubing - $40
CO2 tank - $0- 80, depending on your resourcefulness
CO2 regulator, $40

To keg will be somewhere between $180 and $380.

Let's not get into all the extra exercise you will need as a result of having beer on tap.

I am a fan of anything that will make the brewing process easier.

That is why i went to kegging first. Cleaning bottles is for the birds!

Reverend JC said:

That is why i went to kegging first. Cleaning bottles is for the birds!

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Preach on. A-frikin-men!

I went all grain then kegging.

Of course I put off kegging because I invested in a Party Pig which cut my bottling time by at least half. I also got a bunch of used 1L flip top style bottles. I don't particularly like to bottle, but I didn't have an extra fridge at the time and the PP could fit in my old dorm fridge.

Kegging saves time, AG adds time. AG saves money, Kegging adds money. Pick which is the priority for you and go with that.

Reverend JC said:

I am a fan of anything that will make the brewing process easier.

That is why i went to kegging first. Cleaning bottles is for the birds!

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I did both within 5 months of each other. I agree on bottling. It got old real quick.

BNVince said:

Do share. I can't even find a cooler for that cheap.

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48 qt Ice Cube coolers at Wal-Mart cost me $15.01 including tax.

The miscellany parts for the conversion (ball valve, copper nipple, fittings, SS braid) were around $13.

I just recently made it more durable by adding SS washers that i finally found, but they were $1.40 a piece, so that was pricey for what it is.

I've said this over and over, I don't know why people are buying $40-$50 coolers that hold less than the Ice Cube. I just don't get it.

I lose half a degree over the course of 60 minutes.

IowaStateFan said:

Now that's a great idea. Thanks Kai. I too use a 30 qt brew pot and with my boil off rates I really need at least 28 qts in the pot (if not 30) to get 5 gallons into the fermentor. While I haven't had a serious boil over yet, I'm pretty uncomfortable for the first 15 or 20 minutes of the boil.

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What is your post boil volume?

I collect 25L hot wort and after 70min of boil end up with 20-21.5L cooled wort. This gives me a boil off rate of 10-16%, which is perfect. After correcting the gravity with water I usually get 21-22L cast-out wort.

(for this discussion L = qt)

Kai