First AG. Too Ambitious?

With parts for my MLT and HLT on their way I was playing around in BeerSmith and came up with this. I'm going for a cross between a Rye Pale Ale and a Pale Mild. This will be my 4th brew overall with my first 3 being extract.
Am I diving in too deep for a first all grain batch?
Will this taste terrible? Any suggestions?

Recipe Specifications
--------------------------
Boil Size: 6.52 gal
Post Boil Volume: 5.98 gal
Batch Size (fermenter): 5.00 gal
Bottling Volume: 4.60 gal
Estimated OG: 1.034 SG
Estimated Color: 12.4 SRM
Estimated IBU: 24.1 IBUs
Brewhouse Efficiency: 72.00 %
Est Mash Efficiency: 82.8 %
Boil Time: 60 Minutes

Ingredients:
------------
1 lbs Rice Hulls (0.0 SRM)
4 lbs Pale Malt, Maris Otter (3.0 SRM)
1 lbs Cara-Pils/Dextrine (2.0 SRM)
1 lbs Rye Malt (4.7 SRM)
8.0 oz Caramel/Crystal Malt - 40L (40.0 SRM)
4.0 oz Chocolate Malt (350.0 SRM)
1.00 oz Goldings, East Kent [5.00 %] - Boil 60.0
0.50 oz Fuggles [4.50 %] - Boil 15.0 min
0.25 oz Fuggles [4.50 %] - Boil 0.0 min
0.25 oz Goldings, East Kent [5.00 %] - Boil 0.0
1.0 pkg American Ale (Wyeast Labs #1056)


Mash Schedule: Single Infusion, Medium Body, No Mash Out
Total Grain Weight: 7 lbs 12.0 oz
----------------------------
Name Description Step Temperat Step Time
Mash In Add 10.69 qt of water at 166.1 F 152.0 F 60 min

Sparge: Fly sparge with 5.03 gal water at 168.0 F

No reason not to jump to AG if you have the equipment. I don't actually believe people need to start with extract, any more than someone needs to start with a bread machine and mix to bake a loaf.

Do you really only lose 0.54 gallons in a 60 minute boil? I lose 2/hour.

I would highly suggest batch sparging your first AG, then ask why you want to fly sparge.

Can't comment on the grain bill as I've never brewed a rye.

pelipen said:

No reason not to jump to AG if you have the equipment. I don't actually believe people need to start with extract, any more than someone needs to start with a bread machine and mix to bake a loaf.

Click to expand...

Agreed. The only difference between extract and AG is the amount of time required. AG is certainly not anymore difficult than extract unless you make it so. There can be more variables if you want to really dial something in but it isn't necessary unless you're trying to win gold medals in brewing competitions.

Exactly what are your settings in Beersmith for the Mash? I've recently had problems with my inputs into Beersmith but I have since figured it out.

.54 gallons boiling loss if awfully low. I lost 1.5 the other day on a 40F day.

pelipen said:

No reason not to jump to AG if you have the equipment. I don't actually believe people need to start with extract, any more than someone needs to start with a bread machine and mix to bake a loaf.

Do you really only lose 0.54 gallons in a 60 minute boil? I lose 2/hour.

I would highly suggest batch sparging your first AG, then ask why you want to fly sparge.

Can't comment on the grain bill as I've never brewed a rye.

Click to expand...

That makes me feel better about it not being terribly more difficult.

I haven't adjusted the boil loss rate in BeerSmith yet, but it was only about 1 gallon per hour on my last brew.

The main reason for fly sparging is that I have a second cooler as a HLT due to not having a second kettle large enough for the volume of sparge water that I need. So I figured if I have valves, tubing, aluminum foil, and gravity to use anyways; I may as well fly sparge.

histo320 said:

.54 gallons boiling loss if awfully low. I lost 1.5 the other day on a 40F day.

Click to expand...

Ambient temperature has little to do with boil-off rate. Surface area exposure, humidity, and barometric pressure are the big factors (in that order) in how much you will boil off.

PhelanKA7 said:

Ambient temperature has little to do with boil-off rate. Surface area exposure, humidity, and barometric pressure are the big factors (in that order) in how much you will boil off.

Click to expand...

Actually ambient temperature has a huge effect. I boil off about 1.25 gal in warm temps and about 2 gal /hr when its cold. Hot liquids produce more steam when it's colder.

As to the op - I'd recommend lowering your mash efficiency to about 65-70%. As for your recipie, it may be ok, but I'd go with a simple tested recipie.

tgmartin000 said:

As to the op - I'd recommend lowering your mash efficiency to about 65-70%. As for your recipie, it may be ok, but I'd go with a simple tested recipie.

Click to expand...

I was definitely expecting lower efficiency, I'll have to adjust that.
For the recipe I was trying for something simple, but didn't want to end up with something boring. Any suggestions if I should go with something easier?

Not much grain is it?

I guess if mild means low alcohol then OK.

cheezydemon3 said:

Not much grain is it?

I guess if mild means low alcohol then OK.

Click to expand...

Yep, looking for a lower gravity session beer.

Seems like you have more Cara-Pils than necessary. I generally include .5 lbs. in a 10 pound grain bill. You might want to replace .5 lbs with more base malt.

I personally would not change your efficiency for this recipe. I have a cooler mash tun and fly sparge, and I get 85% brewhouse efficiency. I would keep the default setting from Beersmith for now and adjust it for future recipes based on your results. Just be ready for your OG to be off from Beersmith's estimate by a sizable amount. You can dial it in as you move forward.

So maybe:
1lb rye
1lb rice hulls (is this more than I need to prevent a stuck sparge? It seems like a lot.)
.5lb carapils
.5lb C40
.25lb chocolate malt
4.5lb MO

I did also realize I should maybe add whirlfloc or irish moss for clarity as well. So I'll be using one of those probably.

You really shouldn't need any rice hulls for 1 lb of rye in a 6.75 lb batch, but to be safe I think 4 oz of hull would be plenty for this batch.

PhelanKA7 said:

Ambient temperature has little to do with boil-off rate. Surface area exposure, humidity, and barometric pressure are the big factors (in that order) in how much you will boil off.

Click to expand...

BTU's are the biggest factor in boiloff.

I made some adjustments in BeerSmith, should be closer to final.
I'll wait to adjust my expected efficiencies until after I see some consistency for a few batches.

Recipe Specifications
--------------------------
Boil Size: 6.98 gal
Post Boil Volume: 5.98 gal
Batch Size (fermenter): 5.00 gal
Bottling Volume: 4.60 gal
Estimated OG: 1.035 SG
Estimated Color: 12.4 SRM
Estimated IBU: 24.4 IBUs
Brewhouse Efficiency: 72.00 %
Est Mash Efficiency: 82.8 %
Boil Time: 60 Minutes

Ingredients:
------------
Amt Name
4.0 oz Rice Hulls (0.0 SRM)
4 lbs 8.0 oz Pale Malt, Maris Otter (3.0 SRM)
1 lbs Rye Malt (4.7 SRM)
8.0 oz Cara-Pils/Dextrine (2.0 SRM)
8.0 Caramel/Crystal Malt - 40L (40.0 SRM)
4.0 oz Chocolate Malt (350.0 SRM)
1.00 oz Goldings, East Kent [5.00 %] - Boil 60.0
1.00 Items Whirlfloc Tablet (Boil 15.0 mins)
0.50 oz Fuggles [4.50 %] - Boil 15.0 min
0.25 oz Fuggles [4.50 %] - Boil 0.0 min
0.25 oz Goldings, East Kent [5.00 %] - Boil 0.0 Hop
1.0 pkg American Ale (Wyeast Labs #1056)

Mash Schedule: Single Infusion, Medium Body, No Mash Out
Total Grain Weight: 7 lbs
----------------------------
Name Description Step Temperat Step Time
Mash In Add 9.75 qt of water at 166.9 F 152.0 F 60 min

Sparge: Fly sparge with 5.63 gal water at 168.0 F

Make sure to adjust the alpha for your hops. The East Kent Goldings I have gotten have been 5.8% this year. Not sure about Fuggles. This can make a significant difference in you IBUs because the bittering power is almost 20% higher.

Good call, I probably wouldn't have thought about that when buying my supplies. I'll have to take note of the AA% when I weigh them out.

tgmartin000 said:

Actually ambient temperature has a huge effect. I boil off about 1.25 gal in warm temps and about 2 gal /hr when its cold. Hot liquids produce more steam when it's colder.

Click to expand...

This is not technically true. The reason you boil off more in colder temperatures is probably because the relative humidity is usually much lower when it's colder as compared to when it's hotter. So it's easier for the water vapor to enter the less saturated air. If anything the lower temperature alone would slightly decrease boil off because it would lower the temperature of the wort more quickly, but I'm sure most people would account for this by just turning up the burner.

But to the OP, that looks like a pretty solid recipe. Should be tasty.

I might add a lb of oats.

More mouthfeel is good in a lower abv beer.

I was thinking between the C40 and Carapils it should have a pretty solid mouthfeel, would oats really be necessary? I also don't want it to be too heavy or chewy.

IMO, the rye malt will add most of the body to this brew, amongst other contribution, with the carapils second. I've found rye to be a big body enhancer and, when used in multiples of pounds, almost to the point of excessiveness (depending on style of course). On paper, what you've formulated looks good to me. Keep it simple for the first go round and adjust for future batches if needed.

stpug said:

IMO, the rye malt will add most of the body to this brew, amongst other contribution, with the carapils second. I've found rye to be a big body enhancer and, when used in multiples of pounds, almost to the point of excessiveness (depending on style of course). On paper, what you've formulated looks good to me. Keep it simple for the first go round and adjust for future batches if needed.

Click to expand...

Agreed.

You can also raise your mash temp to 154 or so. This would create more unfermentable sugars. But the easiest: leave and adjust based on your taste for future batches.

Brewed today and the results came out pretty awesome. I only sparged with 5 gallons, so I got 6.5 gallons pre boil at 1.024. 5 gallons went into the fermenter at 1.036.

The color came out a bit darker than I'd expected. Next time I may reduce the chocolate malt to 2oz. Of course if it tastes good, it may just stay the same.

Bottled today; it finished at 1.008. Should come out to 3.68% and the sample I had was quite tasty. I think this and my black IPA may be my first competition entry since it'll be fully conditioned just in time for Barley Legal 3.

Update on this, it scored a 37.3 at Barley Legal. One judge said there was almost too much rye, one said they could taste it but didn't comment on the quantity, and one said they couldn't taste it.

I think I might cut the rye malt by .25lb and add the same amount of flaked rye to try and get more rye "biteyness."