Acetaldehyde question

Homebrew Talk - Beer, Wine, Mead, & Cider Brewing Discussion Forum

Help Support Homebrew Talk - Beer, Wine, Mead, & Cider Brewing Discussion Forum:

This site may earn a commission from merchant affiliate links, including eBay, Amazon, and others.

winvarin

Well-Known Member
Joined
Apr 4, 2009
Messages
1,116
Reaction score
60
Location
Edmond
I recently got the results of a local homebrew contest back. The category was Blonde Ale. I was a little surprised. All 3 judges had indicated they found various levels of acetaldehyde in my beer. I had noticed a “fruit aroma/flavor” when drinking it, but it was by no means unpleasant to me. I had actually chalked it up to a component of the yeast. The BJCP style guide calls for a light fruit note to the style so I figured it was expected.

I hate the smell and taste of green apples, so I thought I surely would have noticed the flaw. But 3 judges noticed it so I am not about to argue. I am focused on prevention at this point.

I did a little reading and found 3 consistent causes of acetaldehyde (sanitation, under pitching, pulling the beer off the yeast before it’s finished “cleaning up”)

I’ll argue sanitation all day. I replace my hoses every few beers and soak everything that comes in contact with the beer post boil in Star San for at least 15-30 min, followed by a scalding hot water rinse.

Under pitching could be it. For this beer, I made a 200 ml starter from a single white labs vial. It went into the flask of aerated starter wort and onto a stir plate. The only change from my usual process was the amount of lead time I gave my starter. I usually give the starter 2 days before brew day. This time, I pitched yeast into the starter Friday night at around 10. I finished brewing and pitched the starter into my wort at 7:30 pm Saturday. So this time it had less than 24 hours lead time. That being said, I still had full krausen in less than 12 hours.

The more I read though, I think I may have pulled the beer to the secondary too soon. I have been brewing the same way for years. 1 week in the primary. Rack to the secondary. One week there. I leave it a little longer if I need to dry hop or if the gravity has not fallen to its expected level. It’s almost always given me great results and it fits with my work schedule.
This beer, however, was the first ale I have ever brewed under refrigeration. I kept it at a solid 65F for the first week in primary. I went another week in secondary at 65F. I’m wondering if I moved to the secondary before the yeast was done? I’ve seen a number of “causes” for acetaldehyde on various forums. But one comes through with consistency. Acetaldehyde is always produced during fermentation, as an intermediate step of the sugar to ethanol conversion. But in most cases, given enough time on the original yeast bed, the yeast will convert the acetaldehyde into ethanol.

Is it possible that at 65F (about 5-7F lower than my traditional fermenting area), that everything proceded much slower and the yeast did not have enough time to scrub the acetaldehyde?

If anybody needs this info, it was an all grain batch (I can post the grain bill if needed). I used WLP East Coast Ale in a starter as mentioned above.
 
The first thing that I see is your "soak everything that comes in contact with the beer post boil in Star San for at least 15-30 min, followed by a scalding hot water rinse". You shouldn't be rinsing after using StarSan, it's a No Rinse Sanitizer.

The only other thing I can see is possibly pulling the beer off the yeast early, I leave most of my beers in the primary for 3+ weeks before I even touch them.
 
I'd blame racking after one week. If you want you could experiment with leaving your beers in the primary for 2-4 weeks depending on gravity, and you may be happy with the results. In my experience conditioning is much more efficient in the primary. I find my beers actually clear better when I leave them in the primary. In fact, the only time I use a secondary now is when I need extended conditioning such as with a lager or a beer with very high gravity.
 
I'm far from an expert and I'm sure more experienced people will chime in here, but IMHO I'd say the answer to your question is "yes". When I started temp controlling (to lower temps) my fermentations took a a couple extra days and everything I have read backs this up. Also, I've started letting my beers sit in the primary for 3-4 weeks and they have been much cleaner tasting. I only rack to a secondary for bigger beers that I want to bulk condition or for lighter ones that I want to clear out some before bottling. I probably shouldn't even do that, but I sometimes rush things like wheat beers so I have some around to drink.

I've learned by reading here that yeast are best left alone to do their work with minimal effing around from us humans. Give them the right conditions and let them clean up after themselves.
 
Also, +1 on not rinsing Star-San. The foam and residue dilute greatly when it contacts the beer and become yeast nutrient.

The foam scares the crap out of me on StarSan. Are you saying that even with the bubbles, I am good to rack right into a starsan sanitized carboy? That goes against everything I have ever thought about sanitation. I would hate to have that "other" flaw pointed out ... i.e., "I taste sanitizer"
 
+1 for too short of a primary...even without temp controlling, I've found that my beers are *worlds* better when I learned to take a more laissez faire attitude towards my primaries...I usually leave them at least 3 weeks if not 4. Is this amount of time "necessary" with all beers? Probably not, but it sure doesn't hurt any....

Oh, and I also agree w/ "don't fear the foam!"
 
One more..."don't fear the foam". Every bottle/carboy that I fill forces foam out the top; I look at it as sanitation assurance!
 
Thanks to everybody for their quick replies. One more "don't fear the foam" question. I've noticed that plastic tubing soaked in StarSan occasionally turns cloudy. Is that still safe to use or do I need to treat it somehow? Or is it just time to pitch anything that turns cloudy after contact?
 
It's fine.

I have leaned with my Lagers: leave in the primary until finished... 3-4 weeks.
 
+1 on not leaving it in the primary long enough

I understand that leaving your beer in the primary for one week worked for you in the past (before you got temperature control); however, if you think about it, its going to make your fermentation take longer. Yeast love to work at around 90 degrees: the hotter, the better up to a certain point. It's that way with most biological systems, and a lot of chemical reactions too. More heat=more kinetic energy, which equals more favorable collisions between your molecules of choice. Since you removed kinetic energy, you can expect your fermentation to take a longer amount of time.

If you leave your beer on the yeast for say 2 weeks, that might clean up your flavors. I agree with the others on this post when I say that I leave mine on the yeast for 3 weeks minimum. I have read on howtobrew.com that acetaldehyde can be a result of beer being too young also. How old was the beer that you sent to be judged (how long was it in bottles)?
 
+1 on not leaving it in the primary long enough

How old was the beer that you sent to be judged (how long was it in bottles)?


Age should not have been an issue. I brewed on 4/23, kegged on 5/8. Then it sat in a kegerator until 6/13, when I counter-pressure filled a 6 pack to take to the brew club meeting/contest on 6/18.
 
The foam scares the crap out of me on StarSan. Are you saying that even with the bubbles, I am good to rack right into a starsan sanitized carboy? That goes against everything I have ever thought about sanitation. I would hate to have that "other" flaw pointed out ... i.e., "I taste sanitizer"

It's not soap. You won't taste it. And the yeast love it.
 
The foam scares the crap out of me on StarSan. Are you saying that even with the bubbles, I am good to rack right into a starsan sanitized carboy? That goes against everything I have ever thought about sanitation. I would hate to have that "other" flaw pointed out ... i.e., "I taste sanitizer"

I haven't had a problem because of it, but for my first couple batches I used unboiled water to rinse because I too, feared the foam. Palmer says in How to Brew that using unboiled water after something is sanitized is one of the biggest causes of infection. If you really hate the foam, I'm sure you could rinse your equipment out with boiling water but it's really not necessary.
 
I had a similar problem with a Vienna lager, my brewing buddy transferred to secondary too soon and it's been bottled at room temp for about 3-4 months, the acetaldehyde is only now just going away.
 
OK. Thanks again everybody. I went ahead and took the leap of faith last night and didn't fear the foam. I didn't get an impressive snake so no pics (sorry). I should have, however, taken a picture of my dad's face when he watched me rack into the fermenter. "You're not going to rinse that first? Ugh. Is it going to be drinkable?"

I told him not to fear the foam. He just shook his head and made another trip to the kegerator.
 
It looks like you have your answers...

However, I agree, don't rinse the StarSan. Also, I agree, to short of time in the primary. My opinion is under two weeks the yeast is still working on all the byproducts, including acetyaldehyde. Pull it to soon and they don't have the numbers to clean it up for you...
 
Back
Top