Skeeter Pee - Starting with Dry Yeast

Homebrew Talk - Beer, Wine, Mead, & Cider Brewing Discussion Forum

Help Support Homebrew Talk - Beer, Wine, Mead, & Cider Brewing Discussion Forum:

This site may earn a commission from merchant affiliate links, including eBay, Amazon, and others.
Try telling the wife to ignore the sulfur smell. lol I may try picking up some 1118 for the next round, but I have about 400g of VL2 in my fridge.
 
I used gelatin as my fining agent instead of sparkloid. Also, no sorbate, just Kmeta. I just wanted to use what I had on hand. It seems to be working fine.
 
Try telling the wife to ignore the sulfur smell. lol I may try picking up some 1118 for the next round, but I have about 400g of VL2 in my fridge.

Blame it on the dog? haha

Yeah I would say you are using up that VL2 for a while then. that is a lot of yeast my friend! I think your pee will still taste good... did I jsut say that? :drunk:
 
Yeah, it is leftover yeast from last years harvest, we like to buy new every year. I will just have to push out a bunch of pee. I don't like it for Apfelwein, it doesn't clear (quick enough) I have a batch from 6 months ago that is still quite foggy. I am going to fine it with egg whites and re evaluate.

I am glad you appreciate the taste of quality pee.
 
I am really looking forward to this weekend, I think my pee will be ready to rack off.

While I might keep some as lemonade wine (still), I am a fan of carbonation. I plan on cold crashing then bringing to a bottling bucket for sorbating, sulphiting and backsweetening with sugar/concentrate (as needed for flavor) then carbing [as I do with my draft ciders]. If this isn't fit for a lawnmower ride, I don't know what is.
 
The first batch was so awesome I started another batch on the weekend, but I was feeling especially lazy so I did the following:

I only aerated the 'must' for like 6 hours, rather the 24. I also only used 1/2 cup of must, 2 tablespoons of sugar and 2 cups of water to start my yeast (all added at the same time). Two hours later I pitched it straight into the skeeter pee must. Its only been 4 days since starting and its fermenting like mad.

I guess the final product will determine if this 'limited effort' approach works or not. I plan to let it sit for 4 weeks and then straight to bottles as per the normal recipe. I will update when I finally drink a bottle.
 
Interesting to see how these changes come out. Also has anybody just reused the yeast cake from the previous batch of Skeeter Pee instead of a new wine slurry? I've done this several times with Apfelwein with no issues.
 
Interesting to see how these changes come out. Also has anybody just reused the yeast cake from the previous batch of Skeeter Pee instead of a new wine slurry? I've done this several times with Apfelwein with no issues.

I have... and it can work as long as your yeast is healthy. If they are already stressed, or if you had any hydrogen-sulfide odors started in the previous batch, they can carry over and create headaches for you in the new batch.

drinkingskeeter4.gif
 
The key is to stir it up to dissipate the Sulfites. You can't overstir... whip it... whip it good!!
It is listed as an early drinker... but my Elder Pee from last year is really amazing now. The bitterness of the lemon has subsided and it's sooo nice! I've made Cherry Pee as well. You can make a starter out of any frozen juice as well... to add a nice flavor. I made my cherry from approx 1lb tart cherries, sugar, etc... just to get it roaring good for a couple days... then started the official recipe.

Debbie
 
The key is to stir it up to dissipate the Sulfites. You can't overstir... whip it... whip it good!!
It is listed as an early drinker... but my Elder Pee from last year is really amazing now. The bitterness of the lemon has subsided and it's sooo nice! I've made Cherry Pee as well. You can make a starter out of any frozen juice as well... to add a nice flavor. I made my cherry from approx 1lb tart cherries, sugar, etc... just to get it roaring good for a couple days... then started the official recipe.

Debbie

What sulphites are you referring too? Are you adding sulphites pre-ferment? Otherwise there aren't any sulphites in there.

The role of added sulfites it to de-oxygenate the must (act as a preservative). Not sure why you would be adding them to this recipe for your ferment.
 
Unless you're squeezing your own lemons the lemon juice you buy in the store contains sulfites or other preservatives that inhibit microbial activity. Whipping the must adds oxygen which helps neutralize these preservatives. The oxygen also is necessary for yeast reproduction so it's a double benefit.
 
Unless you're squeezing your own lemons the lemon juice you buy in the store contains sulfites or other preservatives that inhibit microbial activity. Whipping the must adds oxygen which helps neutralize these preservatives. The oxygen also is necessary for yeast reproduction so it's a double benefit.

there are minimal sulfites in the real lemon, they are neutralized by their addition and the first aeration. Since you are adding tap water (aerated through an aerator on your tap) you don't even need to aerate this mix. i.e. all the free s02 dissipates without extra aeration. You are diluting from a couple quarts of real lemon with 4.5 gallons of aerated water.

As several batches has proven, excessive aerating isn't needed for success with this recipe. Once yeast reproduce, adding oxygen isn't beneficial since sugar to alcohol conversion by the yeast is an anaerobic process. So after say day 2, aeration isn't helping anything. A stir plate might help to keep yeast in suspension, but again, unnecessary.
 
Yes, I believe Deb_rn was referring to the whipping/stirring part of the instructions that is done prior to pitching. Obviously you don't want to aerate once fermentation has taken hold (unless perhaps you have a stuck ferment). Excessive aerating might not be necessary but it also won't hurt.

Not all taps have aerators, I'd guess that most utility sinks do not have them. ;)
 
I still think you water coming out of a utility sink would have plenty of air in it - but even so ;), additional aerating in the beginning wouldn't hurt. All regular kitchen taps should have an aerator in them.

But my real contention is that people have been stating twice daily aeration is necessary (or even just preferred) during the ferment. I disagree with this statement.

In my mind, this does introduce risk for contamination of bacteria/infection. And again, it isn't necessary once ferment starts. There are a lot of unnecessary steps in the original recipe. The originator isn't bad for adding the steps, just sayin' - the steps can bee improved by less interruption IMHO.

However I will concede that in reality the substance is so acidic, it isn't a good growing ground for most readily available bacterias. Which is probably why so few people have had infections from their very "hands on" approach to this fermentation. Think about any other wine/beer/cider you have made that calls on you to touch it so many times in the midst of fermentation.
 
I still think you water coming out of a utility sink would have plenty of air in it - but even so ;), additional aerating in the beginning wouldn't hurt. All regular kitchen taps should have an aerator in them.

But my real contention is that people have been stating twice daily aeration is necessary (or even just preferred) during the ferment. I disagree with this statement.

In my mind, this does introduce risk for contamination of bacteria/infection. And again, it isn't necessary once ferment starts. There are a lot of unnecessary steps in the original recipe. The originator isn't bad for adding the steps, just sayin' - the steps can bee improved by less interruption IMHO.

However I will concede that in reality the substance is so acidic, it isn't a good growing ground for most readily available bacterias. Which is probably why so few people have had infections from their very "hands on" approach to this fermentation. Think about any other wine/beer/cider you have made that calls on you to touch it so many times in the midst of fermentation.

As with any recipe, there is room for alteration. If other ways work for you..... knock yourself out.

I published the recipe the way it is because it was the method that produced the most consistently successful results. Some alterations you can make won't kill it, but may alter the time of ferment or flavor somewhat. I've gotten e-mails from people having problems and I come to find that the issue rests with changes or substitutions they've made.

Let's just say that the recipe takes you down the middle of the road where there are less obstacles to encounter. If you'd rather take a short cut or more adventurous route, ...cool.... It can be fun to drive through the ditches once in a while, but watch out for the rocks, holes, and stumps hidden in the grass.

The originator
 
As with any recipe, there is room for alteration. If other ways work for you..... knock yourself out.

I published the recipe the way it is because it was the method that produced the most consistently successful results. Some alterations you can make won't kill it, but may alter the time of ferment or flavor somewhat. I've gotten e-mails from people having problems and I come to find that the issue rests with changes or substitutions they've made.

Let's just say that the recipe takes you down the middle of the road where there are less obstacles to encounter. If you'd rather take a short cut or more adventurous route, ...cool.... It can be fun to drive through the ditches once in a while, but watch out for the rocks, holes, and stumps hidden in the grass.

The originator

Fair enough, you use what has worked for you and recommend that. Though I certainly wouldn't say that the suggestions I have made are short cuts or more adventurous (they leave less chance for contamination).

What I did find interesting, and likely helpful about your recipe was the two step addition of the energizer/yeast and lemon juice. Very smart way to approach the ferment.

Please understand, I am not trying to upset you or anyone else- rather improve the process.

If you were to follow the aeration steps alone with say a cider, it would likely ruin it due to all the oxidation. Since those aeration steps are counter to my cider experience it made me wonder if you lose something flavor wise by the continual aeration. I think that using a stir plate would certainly help keep the yeast up and active though. However, don't think it is necessary.

Above all, from my experience I enjoyed your recipe. Did a 13 gallon batch from L1118 yeast (5packs). I added the second installment of energizer and yeast at about 24 hours from initial pitch and let it roll. Turned out great.

Best
 
Lon,

I started this thread to explore how Skeeter Pee could be made without a prior slurry. I wanted to do this because I don't make much wine. Other than the way I started the yeast, I followed your recipe exactly. I did this to have the best chance of success.

Maybe some of the steps in the original recipe can be altered or left out completely, but I agree with you that if all steps are followed, you have the best chance of success. I've made several batches and all have turned out excellent.

However it is interesting to see how others are tweaking and experimenting with the method, deconstructing it to see how various changes in method affects the final outcome.
 
This is a great thread. I've been thinking about trying to make a wine and this one seems to be very good and won't break the bank. For a beginning foray into wine-making, would this be a bad idea to try this recipe? I feel pretty comfortable with beer brewing so far and I'd like to branch out but I'd like to hear some opinions on a newbie getting into wine-making.
 
Wine is actually easier than beer in my opinion (no brewing!) - you will be just fine!

You can't go wrong either, recipe is dirt cheap to attempt. Even if you hate the results you are out less than your cost of hops on typical brew.
 
Cool, thanks. I'd like to make this for my wife and eventually make some reds like cabernet sauvignon, merlot, etc for her but I need a jumping off (or in) point. This sounds like it would be perfect.
 
I have never done a wine kit, but I have heard they turn out great.

If you are frugal like me, you should consider some cheap home wines. Dandellion is a fantastic wine. People don't make it often because it is labor intensive. I made two great versions last year and they cost pennies per bottle.

Downside with wine is, you have to wait longer to let it mellow. my dandelion wine was crap until it aged out probably 4-5 months minimum. It was getting really good at 7 months, but by then I only had one bottle left. Will be doing that again this year.
 
That's a good idea although I would never have equated dandelion with wine. I've seen some other recipes for all kinds of cheap home wines on here and am definitely curious.
 
That's a good idea although I would never have equated dandelion with wine. I've seen some other recipes for all kinds of cheap home wines on here and am definitely curious.

If you decide to go this route, I would recommend finding some other wine makers who've made dandelion and will share some with you. I think it's an acquired taste.

I made it one time and it tasted like poo, I still have some bottles left over and I can't get anyone to take them. I used a recipe that was supposed to be good and I followed all the proper steps (petal collection, no green, etc.).

Thinking that maybe it was just a bad recipe, I made another batch using another recipe, lowered the alcohol content and left it dryer. Still tastes crappy in my opinion.

On another forum, twice I begged and pleaded for someone to send me a bottle of good dandelion so that I could see if my batches tasted normal or not. I offered a trade of two of my good wines for one dandelion. It never happened.

I then made a post asking if dandelion was really an urban myth. Everyone seemed to have heard stories of some sweet little granny making this phenomenal wine, but for some reason, as awesome as it was, no one in the family carried the tradition forward. I thought that was weird. Most families have certain traditional foods or recipes that transcend generations, but this "spectacular wine" was left in the dust for some reason. With all the talk about it, how many had actually made it, and how many think it is a great wine and make it often. Most responses came back in one of these categories:
1. Never made it or tried it, but my (grandma, aunt, grandpop, etc.) made it a long time ago and people in the family tell stories that it was good.
2. I've made it and didn't like it.
3. Never made it, have tried it though and don't like it.
4. It's OK, but definitely not worth the effort.
5. I make it and/or like it.

Only about 20% came back with a like it response. I think it makes a good story because it tells the story of good triumphing over evil. Take something evil (dandelions) and out of it comes something heavenly. Nice story, happens like that in books and movies, but in reality, mostly fairytale.

If you're a new wine maker, I would definitely point you to kits. You're almost guaranteed success and people will like your wine. After you have some drinkable stuff in the cellar, THEN go about the process of playing the mad scientist and coming up with your own stuff from scratch.

I teach wine making classes and always point students to kits at the beginning. IF you had never baked a cake before, and you were going to be alone in the kitchen for your first project, I wouldn't give you a recipe for a cake from scratch, I'd give you a cake mix. When you had a couple of cakes that everyone could enjoy, then you could start to add your own creativity.

Nothing will kill spirit and ruin your reputation as a winemaker faster than having 60 bottles of crappy wine and sharing it with friends and relatives. Most will be polite and won't tell you the truth. I've made my share of crappy wine and I know now that some were pretty crappy, and only a few people are bold enough to speak the truth. This is even more true when you have a group of people together. It's kinda like the story "The Emperor's New Clothes".



Cheers, good luck, have fun.
 
If you decide to go this route, I would recommend finding some other wine makers who've made dandelion and will share some with you. I think it's an acquired taste.

I made it one time and it tasted like poo, I still have some bottles left over and I can't get anyone to take them. I used a recipe that was supposed to be good and I followed all the proper steps (petal collection, no green, etc.).

Thinking that maybe it was just a bad recipe, I made another batch using another recipe, lowered the alcohol content and left it dryer. Still tastes crappy in my opinion.

On another forum, twice I begged and pleaded for someone to send me a bottle of good dandelion so that I could see if my batches tasted normal or not. I offered a trade of two of my good wines for one dandelion. It never happened.

I then made a post asking if dandelion was really an urban myth. Everyone seemed to have heard stories of some sweet little granny making this phenomenal wine, but for some reason, as awesome as it was, no one in the family carried the tradition forward. I thought that was weird. Most families have certain traditional foods or recipes that transcend generations, but this "spectacular wine" was left in the dust for some reason. With all the talk about it, how many had actually made it, and how many think it is a great wine and make it often. Most responses came back in one of these categories:
1. Never made it or tried it, but my (grandma, aunt, grandpop, etc.) made it a long time ago and people in the family tell stories that it was good.
2. I've made it and didn't like it.
3. Never made it, have tried it though and don't like it.
4. It's OK, but definitely not worth the effort.
5. I make it and/or like it.

Only about 20% came back with a like it response. I think it makes a good story because it tells the story of good triumphing over evil. Take something evil (dandelions) and out of it comes something heavenly. Nice story, happens like that in books and movies, but in reality, mostly fairytale.

If you're a new wine maker, I would definitely point you to kits. You're almost guaranteed success and people will like your wine. After you have some drinkable stuff in the cellar, THEN go about the process of playing the mad scientist and coming up with your own stuff from scratch.

I teach wine making classes and always point students to kits at the beginning. IF you had never baked a cake before, and you were going to be alone in the kitchen for your first project, I wouldn't give you a recipe for a cake from scratch, I'd give you a cake mix. When you had a couple of cakes that everyone could enjoy, then you could start to add your own creativity.

Nothing will kill spirit and ruin your reputation as a winemaker faster than having 60 bottles of crappy wine and sharing it with friends and relatives. Most will be polite and won't tell you the truth. I've made my share of crappy wine and I know now that some were pretty crappy, and only a few people are bold enough to speak the truth. This is even more true when you have a group of people together. It's kinda like the story "The Emperor's New Clothes".



Cheers, good luck, have fun.
Wow, thanks for the advice. I can definitely relate to having a bunch of bottles of something you're not crazy about. My lhbs has a bunch of different wine kits so maybe I'll start there; they've also been very helpful whenever I have a question.

Thanks again.
 
Hey Lon - If you want my recipe I would be glad to pass it along (don't have it right now). This wine wasn't an acquired taste at all - at our cider festival at our house this year everyone thought it was good. I have a spoken statement to tasters "if you don't like it, say so, you won't hurt my feelings." I tell everyone that if they don't tell me the truth they could end up with a case of something they hate.

This recipe was simple, I used cotes de blanc yeast. Steeped the petals in warm water (did not boil) in the sun for X days (have to check notes). After steeping I added oranges and lemons to one version, and oranges lemons lime and ground ginger and cloves to another. It came out like a riesling, because I actually screwed up the sugar I added (added too much). Ginger and cloves started to come out at 7 months, but that was my last bottle.

PM me if you are interested and I will get it over to you.
 
Nothing will kill spirit and ruin your reputation as a winemaker faster than having 60 bottles of crappy wine and sharing it with friends and relatives.

Trust me on this, I doubt you will have enough zeal to make 60 bottles of dandelion wine. I believe it is 2qts of petals per gallon of wine (so 5 bottles). My wife and I were shot after picking enough for two ish gallons. This year we "hope" to have enough steam to pick enough for a 5 gallon carboy.

I hear you on the liars of taste testing too. But I was reaffirmed when my mom called me up and asked me, unprovoked, if she picked dandelions, whould I make the wine for her. She wanted to plan a dandelion picking party at our house so she could have some of her own stock.

I have no doubt that many people have made crap dandelion wine, perhaps I got lucky. But I do know the wine we made, was like a light riesling with floral notes. When the cloves and ginger came through at about 7 months, I was really impressed with it. I bet the best wait time on Dandy candy is 7mos to 1 year. Another reason why I bet a lot of people didn't like it (lack of patience).

All that said - I have heard the same about wine kits. They just cost more, but you are pretty much guaranteed results.
 
I made my first dandelion last spring... still in the carboy. Most people said it was best after a year, so I'm not bottling yet. It seems to me that once you add all the fruit, it's really not about the dandelions anyway... so if you had one of those recipes without the added flavor of the fruit... it's not going to have as much flavor.
I found a great way to pick them... most effective! sit on the ground with legs in front of you in a "V"... pick, pull (3-5x), toss... do all you can reach in front and on either side... then "skooch" to a new spot. When you get tired of this position, one knee.. then the other knee... then bending straight forward like picking strawberries... all these positions give you a break and different pressure points. I could pick a LOT of petals in a couple hours! I first tried to pick and bring them inside... that didn't work at all. The flowers close up and it takes twice the handling. Once I pick an ice cream pail 2/3 full or so... bring them right inside... zip lock and squeeze air out. FREEZE. Wait until you have enough for a good sized batch! Empty city lots are great for the flowers... no poison and usually large blossoms.
on the SKEETER PEE....
YES, the aeration was in the first 2 days as you dissipate what is in the bottled juice.
Tonight I got the lemon juice on sale at Aldi's for $1.59 each... good deal! I bought 6. Try and save some for a year... see how good it is!

Debbie
 
.......Tonight I got the lemon juice on sale at Aldi's for $1.59 each... good deal! I bought 6. Try and save some for a year... see how good it is!

Debbie
Good dandy picking advice Debbie... I'm gettin' old, I need frequent position changes.
I saw that Aldi had a sale too. Bought a case. I wonder how many bottles of SP I can get out of a case of 12 bottles. Quick math tells me it'll make 200+ 12 ounce bottles. Sounds like a party's in the makin'.
 
I made my first dandelion last spring... still in the carboy. Most people said it was best after a year, so I'm not bottling yet. It seems to me that once you add all the fruit, it's really not about the dandelions anyway... so if you had one of those recipes without the added flavor of the fruit... it's not going to have as much flavor.
Debbie

Mine started tasting good at 5 months, very drinkable (you should give a bottle a try). Once the yeast are out of the picture (6 months is more than adequate), you can bottle and let the wine bottle condition to a year. This way you can do a sample tasting every month or so until the wine is ready. Keeping it under airlock won't hurt it, but your can't sample it.

You add the fruit for some flavor yes, but also for acidity (a lower PH). While the fruit and spices add to the flavor, I still had very distinct floral notes in the wine. My wine didn't taste decidedly citrusy.

If you try yours an think the dandelions aren't needed, and decide to try a bottle with just the fruit let us know how it turns out. After tasting mine, I would stick with the dandelions.

I also think the no cook "sun tea" style steeping I did plays a key role in maintaining the floral influence (some recipes call for you to boil the petals).
 
Update - Yeast from packets and less steps:

My ferment started 2/13/11 and is just about dry, very slow ferment right now, should be done in a day or so.

I thought I would post back with the following information:

1. I only aerated at yeast pitching (which I did right away, and didn't wait 24 hours)
2. I did split the yeast nutrient and energizer additions, half up front and half about 24hours later.
3. I didn't touch the ferment again and it had a nice constant steady ferment throughout and no off smells from the ferment.

Details:

1. Double batch of skeeter pee in a demi john - planned on using 4x1118 yeast packs but had 5 on hand so figured eh, it won't hurt. So 5x1118 yeast packs @ 85 cents each.
2. started 2/13/11, should be done by end of week latest (3/4/11)
3. Used warm tap water to help dissolve the sugar, added 2/3 of lemon juice and 1/2 of nutrient and energizer up front (cooled pee to ~77F before pitching). I hydrated my yeast prior to pitching, but no starter.
3. Ferment temp ~68F-73F
4. About 24 hours and tossed in the rest of the lemon juice and the rest of the energizer and nutrient.

Conclusions:
There are a lot of extra steps in the original recipe (perhaps a few more that I did) that may or may not hurt the process (make you more prone to infect your wine, etc). I tend to think that extra aeration after the first 24-48 hours is not helpful, and possibly harmful. since this part of the fermentation is anaerobic anyhow. All you would be doing is oxidizing the must.


Next time:
I plan to pitch everything in at once next time and see what happens. I think as long as you prime it with enough yeast, you will be good to go.

Going to try this coming up. I have access to Montrachet, and Curvee? Champagne yeast or should I try ordering online? Gives me an excuse to order more stuff.
 
I would think you'd want to use a workhorse yeast like Pasteur Champagne or EC-1118 if you're not going to be pitching an entire yeast cake.
 
I would think you'd want to use a workhorse yeast like Pasteur Champagne or EC-1118 if you're not going to be pitching an entire yeast cake.

I think they carry Pasteur Champagne yeast too. I'll give them a call this afternoon. If they do I'll get around to it Sunday when we make the trip up to her mothers.
 
Pasteur champagne is very robust as well (more than acceptable substitution for L-1118). That said, if you have Montrachet already - it should work fine - might be more prone to sulfur stink, but that will go through your airlock anyhow.

If I could choose I would go with either champagne yeast. If you want to use stuff up, likely any yeast would be good as long as you (at least) double pitch. Hydrate first in 100F water of course.

Next time you order stuff, grab some of the L-1118. It is great stuff, cheap and stores forever.
 
I thought I would share my experience so far with skeeter pee fermentation. A few weeks ago I helped a friend make his first batch. After we were done boiling, I found out that he didn't have yeast energizer or a slurry or starter. We decided to roll with it and we stirred and let it sit for 24 hours. The next day, he dropped in 2 packets of EC-1118... It is nearly done fermenting. It has taken a while, but it is getting there. I just pitched yeast into my first batch. I did have energizer and nutrient, but I just rehydrated three packets of yeast with a very small amount of sugar for 15 minutes and tossed it in. I will update this when fermentation picks up. I think I will see it picking up in the next day or so. I also think i could have gotten by with 2 packets just fine, but I need this to be bottled before May 3rd.
 
Thanks Honkey - this stands in line with my thought that there were lots of extra steps. I actually planned on just letting it roll next time as well. COOL!
 
I bottled the lazier version I made up about a month ago yesterday morning and tossed a pint in the fridge to have with dinner. It turned out quite good, possibly even better then my first patch. No 'rawness' or off flavours. To be honest you can hardly tell its alcoholic it tastes so much like lemonade.
 
Think I'll give this a shot this summer. Made Apfewien last year with montrachet yeast and basically just had champagne. Looking for something more like this I think.
 
Starting a batch now... Going to try it with 2 packs of Montrachet. My slurry batch (first) picked up alot of not nice flavor from my tangerine wine that didn't turn out like I expected. I want to see what this will do.

Quick edit for followup (next morning). Prepared the must as normal. for a starter I used 2packs Motrachet, 2tbsp of Sugar, in 2 cups warm water with a little 100% Cherry juice I had laying around. I added a cup of must every hour or so and this thing was bubbling away. Got up to a half gallon of starter (with about 2-3 cups headspace) and left it overnight. This morning it was bubbling up into the airlock on my container! So I agitated my must and dumped the starter this morning before things started getting messy.
 
So i made 2 mistakes. I added all of the yeast nutrient ,energizer, and tanin first. should I add 1/3 extra in a couple of days?
I thought I had some Kmeta. I dont. Is it important to have? Should I place a order for just it?
 
Back
Top