Reusing yeast - without washing

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taa800

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I just finished fermenting a Sam Smith India Ale clone and was ready to wash my yeast and save it as illustrated in the sticky in this forum. The night before I was going to do this, I was talking to another home brewer who has a lot more experience than I do and brews some really good beers. I asked him how he reuses his yeast and he says that when he's done transferring out of his primary, he sticks the siphon in the yeast cake and transfers it to a 22oz bottle and fills it about half full. He sticks it in the fridge and when he brews his next batch, he warms it to room temp and throws it in. No starter required.

That seems like it would cause problems from what I read, but he says it works every time and is the most simple method to reuse yeast. No washing, no starter. And he brews different types of beer all the time.

What are people's thoughts on this method? I ended up doing what he said, but I filled 3 pint jars about 3/4ths full and have them stored in my fridge. Is it ok not to wash them? I was thinking of reusing the yeast in a cream ale or porter. The original strain was Wyeast 1098. I really don't want to go through the process of brewing a batch of beer to find out it didn't ferment or I have off flavors in my beer because my yeast wasn't any good.
 
It is so quick and easy to wash I don't understand why you would want to do this? I think it's a bad idea because without washing you are including the trub; which includes all of the break material/hop debris and dead yeas from your previous beer in the new beer. I think it's a horrible practice.
 
I do almost the same thing as your friend, but I use 12oz bottles all the way full and make starters for the yeast. Alwalys works well, no off flavors.
 
I do almost the same thing as your friend, but I use 12oz bottles all the way full and make starters for the yeast. Alwalys works well, no off flavors.

No "off" flavors but you are dumping a bunch of crap that certainly has "flavors" in it into your wort.

Just my 2 cents.
 
earwig said:
No "off" flavors but you are dumping a bunch of crap that certainly has "flavors" in it into your wort.

Just my 2 cents.

Multiple times I have made the same recipe with washed yeast on one batch and new yeast on another with no difference in flavor between batches. Either no flavor is imparted or my palett is not refind enough to tell the difference, lol.... either way, it works for me. If you have never tried out this method of reusing yeast I highly suggest you give it a go. It's less work and you might like it.
 
Multiple times I have made the same recipe with washed yeast on one batch and new yeast on another with no difference in flavor between batches. Either no flavor is imparted or my palett is not refind enough to tell the difference, lol.... either way, it works for me. If you have never tried out this method of reusing yeast I highly suggest you give it a go. It's less work and you might like it.

Haha... Washing yeast takes just a few minutes and I just believe it is bad practice to throw trub/hop debris/hot/cold break into wort - especially since you'll want it all aerated and mixed in well when pitching.

Everyone has different opinions and practices I guess. :mug:
 
I do have a question for you guys. How do you come up with an accurate pitching rate if you don't know how much yeast you are pitching?
 
I've awarded in a BJCP competition on beer that was fermented with reused yeast that was not washed. I don't think it's as bad of a practice as some people think. YMMV
 
When you are pitching your reused yeast (whether it's washed or not), would I need to create a starter if I have enough yeast? I looked at my jars today and the pint jar is about half full of sediment/yeast on the bottom and the top is liquid. If I pour off the liquid can I just pitch what's left? I'm not against washing the yeast, but I'd like to stay away from creating a starter if I don't have to.
 
When you are pitching your reused yeast (whether it's washed or not), would I need to create a starter if I have enough yeast? I looked at my jars today and the pint jar is about half full of sediment/yeast on the bottom and the top is liquid. If I pour off the liquid can I just pitch what's left? I'm not against washing the yeast, but I'd like to stay away from creating a starter if I don't have to.

This is one way that washing yeast helps. Once you wash it you can estimate the volume of clean yeast you have. You can't do that when it is all mixed up with trub.
 
I've awarded in a BJCP competition on beer that was fermented with reused yeast that was not washed. I don't think it's as bad of a practice as some people think. YMMV

I have never washed yeast. I simply scoop about a quart of slurry from the fermenter w/ a large sanitized ladle into a zip lock bag. To pitch, I simply sanitize the outside of the bag and cut a top corner w/ sanitized scissors, pour off excess liquid and add to the fermenter. Very easy and seems to work a charm.
 
pabloj13 said:
This is one way that washing yeast helps. Once you wash it you can estimate the volume of clean yeast you have. You can't do that when it is all mixed up with trub.

Sure you can. The calculator at Mrmalty.com even has an option for pitching from slurry.
 
Sure you can. The calculator at Mrmalty.com even has an option for pitching from slurry.
This is what I use. If I pitch within a few weeks of harvest, it is easy to pitch enough yeast without making a starter.
 
When you are pitching your reused yeast (whether it's washed or not), would I need to create a starter if I have enough yeast? I looked at my jars today and the pint jar is about half full of sediment/yeast on the bottom and the top is liquid. If I pour off the liquid can I just pitch what's left? I'm not against washing the yeast, but I'd like to stay away from creating a starter if I don't have to.

You can tell what is yeast and what is trub.The layer on top will be milky
white about 1/8 to 1/4 " thick anything below that is trub.
 
I once pitched on a yeast cake that had dried to the bottom of a sealed fermenter, all cracked and brittle.

I pitched on the whole thing since some people had convinced me that the poor little dears are so delicate.

Fermentation was healthy and vigorous.

FANTASTIC beer.

I use 1 cup or so from most cakes for the new batch.

If you think that there is enough trub in 1 cup of slurry to make one bit of difference, I will just have to disagree.
 
I don't choose to wash yeast because I'm afraid of off flavors from trub etc, and I don't pretend like I can accurately measure my washed yeast visually when determining pitching rate (especially after making a starter with it).

I wash yeast because I can store it in my fridge for a year without issue. Washed yeast is stored in clean, oxygen/alcohol minimized water. If you're going to use your yeast again in the near future, storing trub-laden slurry is ideal. My brewing is too irregular to store yeast this way. I love my little library of a half dozen washed yeast strains that live in my fridge. To each their own.
 
I used WLP028, Edinburgh Scottish Ale yeast for an Irish Red (suggestion from my LHBS to their recipe, worked very well), repitched on half of the yeast cake when I redid the recipe, and then used the remaining slurry from the first batch (which had been sitting in the fridge for almost 4 weeks now) for a scottish strong ale. I was worried about the yeast's viability in the strong ale, but after 72 hours I found a thick layer of foam and signs of a HIGH krausen in my fermenter bucket (despite no airlock activity- gonna check that lid and seal really carefully for leaks after this Strong Ale is done!)

Cake and slurry is simple, and yeast love to recycle old material like their dead brethren. I have high hopes for this upcoming batch.
 
I don't choose to wash yeast because I'm afraid of off flavors from trub etc, and I don't pretend like I can accurately measure my washed yeast visually when determining pitching rate (especially after making a starter with it).

I wash yeast because I can store it in my fridge for a year without issue. Washed yeast is stored in clean, oxygen/alcohol minimized water. If you're going to use your yeast again in the near future, storing trub-laden slurry is ideal. My brewing is too irregular to store yeast this way. I love my little library of a half dozen washed yeast strains that live in my fridge. To each their own.

:mug:

That does sound awesome.

While I will continue undeterred to pitch 1 cup or so of yeast/trub etc, I may wash and ranch some of the more specific styles.
 
cheezydemon3 said:
:mug:

That does sound awesome.

While I will continue undeterred to pitch 1 cup or so of yeast/trub etc, I may wash and ranch some of the more specific styles.

I have used slurry that was well over a year old before, it was stored in my kegerator at 30*F. Just make a starter with it and your good to go. I currently have 8 strains that I save this way.
 
Chris White of White Labs addressed this in an interview. The very high level summary is that the optimal thing for yeast health is to separate it from the trub by washing (really rinsing, washing would be using acid to clean up bacteria). HOWEVER, in his opinion, the risk of contamination involved in rinsing (as there is contamination risks any time you handle the yeast) outweighs the yeast health benefit.

He also said if you have a process that works for you, go ahead and keep doing it. So by all means, if you've had luck rinsing or not rinsing, go on rinsing or not rinsing. I rinse, now I just know that I'm doing it against the advice of a yeast guru. ;)
 
Chris White of White Labs addressed this in an interview. The very high level summary is that the optimal thing for yeast health is to separate it from the trub by washing (really rinsing, washing would be using acid to clean up bacteria). HOWEVER, in his opinion, the risk of contamination involved in rinsing (as there is contamination risks any time you handle the yeast) outweighs the yeast health benefit.

He also said if you have a process that works for you, go ahead and keep doing it. So by all means, if you've had luck rinsing or not rinsing, go on rinsing or not rinsing. I rinse, now I just know that I'm doing it against the advice of a yeast guru. ;)

Awesome addition Oh yeast ranchero.

That speaks volumes. That and the fact that 99% of my beer turns out so freaking awesome without ever being washed.
 
I have used slurry that was well over a year old before, it was stored in my kegerator at 30*F. Just make a starter with it and your good to go. I currently have 8 strains that I save this way.

When you say slurry, does that mean unwashed yeast?
 
taa800 said:
When you say slurry, does that mean unwashed yeast?

Yes. After racking the beer from the fermenter to a keg, I dump the yeast and small amount of leftover beer into my sanitized botteling bucket, swirl around to get to a liquid consistency, adding distilled water if necessary and then fill a clean bottle or two. Use a lighter to sterilize the opening of the bottle then cap and freeze.
 
So from what I've learned by everyone's replies, there are many ways to do this. Right now I have 3 pint jars of 1098 in the fridge. I think I'll wash one of them to see how it looks compared to the other two. Then I'll use them and see if I can taste a difference. I won't use a starter either, more because I'm lazy than anything else.

This was a great discussion. Thanks everyone.
 
Sure you can. The calculator at Mrmalty.com even has an option for pitching from slurry.

mrmalty assumes you are using washed yeast that's why the percentage of non-yeast in the default calculation is low. Slurry is suspended yeast in the liquid usually separated from the trub and other garbage.

Why anyone would want to dump all that crap in their beer is beyond me. It will also be very difficult to replicate a recipe if you like it; how will you repeat conditions that are almost impossible to measure down the road?
 
Up until recently (2012), I simply scooped out the yeast using a sanitized spoon and placed it into sterilized mason jars. I then stored the mason jars in the refrigerator until the next time I needed that yeast strain. I've now switched over to washing yeast. I haven't noticed any difference, but I do feel more professional. :)

To be a bit more serious, I think the yeast will be of a more consistent quality and last longer. I am however, running out of room in my refrigerator! :)
 
Chris White of White Labs addressed this ....in his opinion, the risk of contamination involved in rinsing (as there is contamination risks any time you handle the yeast) outweighs the yeast health benefit.

very interesting....this pairs very well with my lazy brewer mantra:mug:
 
your friend's method is essentially what you would see in most commercial breweries, scale and equipment differences not withstanding. No issues to speak of.
 
Why even wash yeast at all, just make a hugh starter with fesh yeast and hold some back out of a fresh starter, No off favors and nothing else?!?!
 
your friend's method is essentially what you would see in most commercial breweries, scale and equipment differences not withstanding. No issues to speak of.

Commercial breweries wash their yeast. I'm not sure what you are talking about.

Read this page on harvesting yeast: http://www.wyeastlab.com/com-yeast-harvest.cfm

If you are pitching trub and garbage from previous beers and not washing your yeast you are not producing the best beer you can :)

If you are happy with your method of pitching trub and garbage in with your yeast that's fine... but it is not ideal.
 
From the wyeast page:
Yeast Evaluation: Only harvest yeast from fermentations that have exhibited normal fermentation characteristics. Always evaluate the yeast slurry as it is harvested. The slurry should appear thick and creamy with very little trub and no “off” flavors and aromas. Strong sulfur or phenolic aromas indicate possible problems with either sanitation or stress. Yeast should be tested for purity if possible and checked for viability and cell density. If there are any concerns over the health or purity of a culture, DO NOT USE IT!
 
From the wyeast page:
Yeast Evaluation: Only harvest yeast from fermentations that have exhibited normal fermentation characteristics. Always evaluate the yeast slurry as it is harvested. The slurry should appear thick and creamy with very little trub and
no “off” flavors and aromas. Strong sulfur or phenolic aromas indicate possible problems with either sanitation or stress. Yeast should be tested for purity if possible and checked for viability and cell density. If there are any concerns over the health or purity of a culture, DO NOT USE IT!

Consider the source. Reused yeast is a lost sale to them. Also, that doesn't say "do not repitch yeast", it says don't repitch unhealthy yeast. Most repitch from normal fermentations.

I use the mason jar trick mentioned previously.
 
Consider the source. Reused yeast is a lost sale to them. Also, that doesn't say "do not repitch yeast", it says don't repitch unhealthy yeast. Most repitch from normal fermentations.

I use the mason jar trick mentioned previously.

They say repitching yeast up to 10 times is possible... they aren't trying to get you to buy more yeast. They say to pitch trub-free yeast. Anyone who thinks pitching trub with their yeast is a good practice is misguided :)
 
Consider the source. Reused yeast is a lost sale to them. Also, that doesn't say "do not repitch yeast", it says don't repitch unhealthy yeast. Most repitch from normal fermentations.

I use the mason jar trick mentioned previously.

The very first line on their harvesting page:

Harvesting and re-pitching yeast is a common practice in most breweries. Brewers should be able to re-use yeast for at least 7 generations and often as many as 10 generations if good harvesting and storage practices are followed. Harvesting and re-pitching yeast is a great way to spread the cost of the culture over many brews. The particular method of harvest will depend upon the yeast strain used and brewery configuration, however the principles will remain consistent.
 
mrmalty assumes you are using washed yeast that's why the percentage of non-yeast in the default calculation is low. Slurry is suspended yeast in the liquid usually separated from the trub and other garbage.

Why anyone would want to dump all that crap in their beer is beyond me. It will also be very difficult to replicate a recipe if you like it; how will you repeat conditions that are almost impossible to measure down the road?

15% is the default for non yeast percentage for slurry, mr malty doesn't assume anything, as its an adjustable setting so you can make it work for your situation.

Also I have not found it difficult at all to replicate a recipe using slurry vs new yeast as I stated in previous post in this thread, no difference in taste/aroma/color/ect...

If you are pitching trub and garbage from previous beers and not washing your yeast you are not producing the best beer you can :)

If you are happy with your method of pitching trub and garbage in with your yeast that's fine... but it is not ideal.

As I just stated there is no difference in the final product IMHO, as I have done side by side comparisons before... Not the best or ideal is your opinion, not a fact, and as you have already seen there are many other people on this thread who do not share your opinion.
 
15% is the default for non yeast percentage for slurry, mr malty doesn't assume anything, as its an adjustable setting so you can make it work for your situation.

Also I have not found it difficult at all to replicate a recipe using slurry vs new yeast as I stated in previous post in this thread, no difference in taste/aroma/color/ect...



As I just stated there is no difference in the final product IMHO, as I have done side by side comparisons before... Not the best or ideal is your opinion, not a fact, and as you have already seen there are many other people on this thread who do not share your opinion.

umm... Mr Malty's non yeast content only goes up to 25%. If you're pitching everything the trub etc could easily be more than that. That tells me its assuming the yeast is clean. I'm not trying to be rude but people are just listening to others here and repeating nonsense in many cases.

if you aren't repeating a procedure exactly as before there is a difference. Beers get over 400 flavors from yeast alone.
 
umm... Mr Malty's non yeast content only goes up to 25%. If you're pitching everything the trub etc could easily be more than that. That tells me its assuming the yeast is clean. I'm not trying to be rude but people are just listening to others here and repeating nonsense in many cases.

if you aren't repeating a procedure exactly as before there is a difference. Beers get over 400 flavors from yeast alone.

If there is a difference so small that it isn't detectable by the beer-holder, it isn't a difference that matters.

pm5k00 just stated that his beers taste identical in side by side comparisons, and noted that either side of the argument is opinion. Even the two large yeast producers cited in this thread seem to have differing opinions on the subject.
You may not be trying to be rude, but you're accomplishing it nonetheless when you push your own opinion as fact, and attack ("repeating nonsense") instead of debate.
 
If there is a difference so small that it isn't detectable by the beer-holder, it isn't a difference that matters.

pm5k00 just stated that his beers taste identical in side by side comparisons, and noted that either side of the argument is opinion. Even the two large yeast producers cited in this thread seem to have differing opinions on the subject.
You may not be trying to be rude, but you're accomplishing it nonetheless when you push your own opinion as fact, and attack ("repeating nonsense") instead of debate.

I'm sorry but what I stated is fact. Let pm5k00 give you a recipe to try that he likes and let me know how you handle the yeast pitching for it when he pitched his from who-knows-what previous brew.
 
Still think the only way to get trub-free yeast is to make a big starter with fresh yeast and safe some of it back, only way.
 
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