Gelatin is no joke!

Wow, haven't looked at my post in a while, this created quite a bit of discusssion, waydago! As for using gelatin in the primary and then washing the yeast, I wouldn't do it. The gelatin settles and pulls all that gunk out of suspension settling it right on the yeast cake. Since gelatin is, well, gelatinous, you are going to have a tough time getting it away from your yeast you are trying to wash. I don't secondary either, unless I am using gelatin and I want to wash my yeast. Try it, may work great, I just don't do it.

I've got a porter fermenting now that I think I'm going add the gelatin too in primary and see if I can wash the yeast.

Should have the results in about 3 weeks. And will let you folks know.

Paddle_Head said:

I've got a porter fermenting now that I think I'm going add the gelatin too in primary and see if I can wash the yeast.

Should have the results in about 3 weeks. And will let you folks know.

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May i suggest waiting to do this on on lighter beer? A Porter wouldn't benefit much from finings, IMO. I think they are best used on beers along the lines of Pales, & Blondes. Just a suggestion

Ha, that's actually why I'm going to be trying it on the Porter. I figure the first time it's better to do it on a beer that if it doesn't go perfect it won't make a difference.

Paddle_Head said:

Ha, that's actually why I'm going to be trying it on the Porter. I figure the first time it's better to do it on a beer that if it doesn't go perfect it won't make a difference.

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Well why didn't i think of that? good call

After reading almost this entire thread I too am curious about washing yeast. I have a Pliney clone kit to make up and a red ale that use the same yeast. I'd like to make them clear as possible using gelatin but wonder about doing the gelatin. I guess I could do a 12 or so day primary, then run them into a secondary and wash that yeast then add gelatin to the secondary.

Nevermind me sometimes I answer my own questions and solve my own problems when i type.

smokinghole said:

After reading almost this entire thread I too am curious about washing yeast. I have a Pliney clone kit to make up and a red ale that use the same yeast. I'd like to make them clear as possible using gelatin but wonder about doing the gelatin. I guess I could do a 12 or so day primary, then run them into a secondary and wash that yeast then add gelatin to the secondary.

Nevermind me sometimes I answer my own questions and solve my own problems when i type.

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I wouldn't bother washing the yeast from the Pliney with all that hops in the trub.

There is a long discussion about this topic on the Brewing Network Podcast Session 01-17-10 with Russian River Brewing (Think Pliny).

They talked awhile about filtering and using gelatin. They basically love the gelatin, used or have been using commercially and at the brew pub...sort of as a back up. They recommended adding it with the priming sugar at bottling time.

jermanimal said:

There is a long discussion about this topic on the Brewing Network Podcast Session 01-17-10 with Russian River Brewing (Think Pliny).

They talked awhile about filtering and using gelatin. They basically love the gelatin, used or have been using commercially and at the brew pub...sort of as a back up. They recommended adding it with the priming sugar at bottling time.

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No kidding I'm gonna have to check this one out. I almost did it two days ago when I racked to a keg to carb with priming sugar but I didn't do it. Darn.

Does anyone know if gelatin in the secondary will affect the conditioning of your beer? If it is pulling yeast and other particles out of the beer, what is causing the beer to condition and become mature/not green?

I've used Gelatin in my last two ales... Used 1 tsp of Gelatin added to 16 oz of hot water (straight from the hot water tap of my sparklettes dipsenser), poured in slowly when racking into secondary... Cleared up beautifully within 48 hours! Bottled after 10 days... and had good carbonation after 2 weeks in the bottles! Beer was clear a day! I will always use gelatin for beers I want clear!
btw... my last ale was a light ale and I used whirlflow and gelatin! No probs!

bmellis said:

Does anyone know if gelatin in the secondary will affect the conditioning of your beer? If it is pulling yeast and other particles out of the beer, what is causing the beer to condition and become mature/not green?

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Not sure on Gelatin specifically, but most fining agents work by having a positive charge that bonds to protein. The fining agent will also be heavy enough to settle much more quickly out of suspension.

So it shouldn't have any affect on the suspended yeast.

I also heard about how good gelatin works (on the Brewing network) and am going to try it on my ESB that I am going to keg on Saturday.

Paddle_Head said:

Not sure on Gelatin specifically, but most fining agents work by having a positive charge that bonds to protein. The fining agent will also be heavy enough to settle much more quickly out of suspension.

So it shouldn't have any affect on the suspended yeast.

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Maybe this is beyond the scope of this thread, but don't you want to keep proteins suspended in the beer for body, mouthfeel, etc.?

I'm getting ready to make my first all-grain lager in my new mash-tun. After reading this I'll be getting some Knox gelatin to help clear it up too. I know it's not very scientific of me to change more than one thing at a time, but it's a lot more fun that way

Thanks for all the info, this was a long read, but worth every byte.

Paddle_Head said:

I've got a porter fermenting now that I think I'm going add the gelatin too in primary and see if I can wash the yeast.

Should have the results in about 3 weeks. And will let you folks know.

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OK, so last night I got around to bottling this batch. Gelatin had been sitting on it for about 5 days. You could physically see it sitting on top of the yeast cake at the bottom of the carboy. I went about the washing procedure in the way I typically do (use ~60oz of water to collect final amount of two 8oz jars of yeast- so typically I seem to get good separation). Here's the results compared to some of the same strain of yeast I had collected about a month ago.



Obviously the liquid phase has a color difference since the gelatin batch was a porter, and the previous was a pale ale. Overall they appeared very similar though. The sample from the gelatin actually had a bit more yeast, but that is probably more a factor of the higher OG of the porter. At the end of the washing process, all the gelatin was sitting on the bottom of the carboy, none was even transferred to my first set of rinse bottles.

I only read through page 5, this may have already been stated, but:

If you swirl it around a couple times a day, it will pick up more and more stuff out of the brew and also fall more compactly as time goes by, thus less loss when racking/bottling.

I used this on cyser recently. Just the unflavored Knox gelatin, less than 1/8 teaspoon to one gallon.

As the title states, it's no joke. I freaked out at first and was afraid I made apple jello shooters.

Add less than you think you should, then half that, then half it again. Add so little that you think "what's the point?" and that will probably be slightly more than the right amount.

Paddle_Head said:

OK, so last night I got around to bottling this batch. Gelatin had been sitting on it for about 5 days. You could physically see it sitting on top of the yeast cake at the bottom of the carboy. I went about the washing procedure in the way I typically do (use ~60oz of water to collect final amount of two 8oz jars of yeast- so typically I seem to get good separation). Here's the results compared to some of the same strain of yeast I had collected about a month ago.

Obviously the liquid phase has a color difference since the gelatin batch was a porter, and the previous was a pale ale. Overall they appeared very similar though. The sample from the gelatin actually had a bit more yeast, but that is probably more a factor of the higher OG of the porter. At the end of the washing process, all the gelatin was sitting on the bottom of the carboy, none was even transferred to my first set of rinse bottles.

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Thanks for posting your results with washing. I have been curious for a while and it is nice to see some actual results.

lschiavo said:

This is what I do and it works quite well. It also glues the yeast cake down so its harder to pick anything up while racking. Just make sure to add gelatin at a higher temp so it can have time to equalize and do its thing.

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Hmm, so this raises a question I don't believe has yet been discussed (and I did read the whole thread!

The question is this: can one use gelatin with a conical fermenter? Or will it lock up the yeast in the cone and not allow it to be dumped off?

I have used gelatin finings on several wines and one beer so far. I have used it about every way you can think of and it worked every way every time. I actually just sprinkled it into a carboy once with a wine that was so cloudy and bad it literally looked like weak chocolate milk..within hours you could see it clearing..That wine ( peach) is easily the best I have made so far.... I boiled it and dumped it into another batch of wine and again it worked well....I have soaked it then heated it up then cooled it down and racked over it, and again it worked fine. With this last batch of beer I just bottled it yesterday and it is EXTREMELY clear. Now as far as chill haze I have no clue HOWEVER I would NOT use it at bottling time. NO WAY would I want that gunk in my bottles.... It is way more than just yeast trub, it is nasty looking IMO. BTW I have never cold crashed as I am not set up to do it and the gelatin still worked for me.

After reviewing this thread and several others I decided to give this a shot with a Blonde Ale I brewed two weeks ago. I am giving a case of this to a co-worker and want it to be very clear. Also, I ran out of whirfloc just prior to brew day so I thought this would be a good time to give this a shot.

I boiled 16 oz of water in the microwave for 10 minutes, removed and covered the pyrex with saran wrap, cooled to 170, mixed in one packet (6 grams) of knox unflavored gelatin and cooled to 100 degrees. Pitched in primary and it looks like it's already gone to work. I could only cool the beer to 52 (ambient temp in my basement) so hopefully that's cold enough to do the trick. Sounds like lots of folks here don't cold crash when using gelatin so I'm not too worried about it!

On the subject of reusing the yeast, I decided to stir up the bottom slightly with a sanitized racking cane prior to adding the gelatin. I then siphoned two quart jars worth of liquid from the bottom trying to get as much of the yeast as possible. I've got about 300 ML of super clean yeast in the jars combined which is more than enough for the IPA I'm doing on Saturday. :rockin:

TristanL said:

On the subject of reusing the yeast, I decided to stir up the bottom slightly with a sanitized racking cane prior to adding the gelatin. I then siphoned two quart jars worth of liquid from the bottom trying to get as much of the yeast as possible. I've got about 300 ML of super clean yeast in the jars combined which is more than enough for the IPA I'm doing on Saturday. :rockin:

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Great idea for the yeast harvesting, wish I'd done that with my lager. I tried the usual washing method and ended up with a small amount. I'm using a 'starter' to build up the colony before saving.

DanPoch said:

Great idea for the yeast harvesting, wish I'd done that with my lager. I tried the usual washing method and ended up with a small amount. I'm using a 'starter' to build up the colony before saving.

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Thanks! The pros to this method are only needing one vessel and time savings. However, I've got maybe 300ML of yeast total. That might not be enough for a lager depending on the OG.

smizak said:

Never used gelatin myself, but I just listened to the BN podcast w/ Vinnie Cilurzo of Russian River and he said he added gelatin to the bottling bucket when he was a homebrewer. He also mentioned that the yeast cake got locked up in the gelatin in the bottom and made for very clear pours out of the bottle.

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That was a great episode and kicked off a ton of forums. It appears that Vinnie followed the KISS method and had no problems. After doing some reading here and on TBN Forum, I am going to hit my APA that is dry-hopping in secondary with 1/4 - 1/2 tsp per 5 gallon batch mixed in 8 oz water each tonight. I will post pix. No way to crash it at the moment since my ferment freezer is busy with 10-gallons of American Stout for St Patty's Day.

APA Update. 200 ml of distilled water brought to boil then cooled to 150F or less; added 1/2 tsp of Knox unflavored gelatin and waited for it to completely hydrate. Swirled to mix and then heated to about 170F-190F and killed heat. Allowed to cool to 150F or less and added to my dry-hopping APA in secondary. Pix to follow. Time will tell. I leave for a trip tomorrow and will take pix tonight, tomorrow AM and when I return. Basement temp is around 60F.

After 18 hours no change to clarity and little bits of hop pellets still floating on top of beer, but seem to be one by one settling. Next Update in 4-days.

Perhaps it was here and I missed it. Does using gelatin affect heat retention? Since gelatin is supposed to cling to the stuff floating in your beer it occurred to me that it might cling to the proteins that aid head retention. Any thoughts before I put some in my lager?

I'm going to pop a bottle of graff I did with the gelatin tonight sometime. I will let you know how that thing turns out. I don't typically get real good head retention but if it's even worse I'll post either way.

Okay I really didn't wait long. Since I'm off today I just popped it. The Graff is clear clear, and it has the same head retention characteristics all my other batches had.

smokinghole said:

Okay I really didn't wait long. Since I'm off today I just popped it. The Graff is clear clear, and it has the same head retention characteristics all my other batches had.

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Thanks, smokinghole, glad to hear. I was reading an article about the proteins that help with head retention and it made me wonder. Now I can add the gelatin without worrying about it.

Does anyone notice their beer carbonates faster after fining with gelatin? The Centennial Blonde tastes fully carbonated on 12 PSI after 5 days. In fact, I think I accidentally over charged it and I'm going to have to relieve the pressure daily for a few days.

On the head retention issue, I don't believe the gelatin effected it. However, my head retention is usually mediocre.

TimmyR said:

APA Update. 200 ml of distilled water brought to boil then cooled to 150F or less; added 1/2 tsp of Knox unflavored gelatin and waited for it to completely hydrate. Swirled to mix and then heated to about 170F-190F and killed heat. Allowed to cool to 150F or less and added to my dry-hopping APA in secondary. Pix to follow. Time will tell. I leave for a trip tomorrow and will take pix tonight, tomorrow AM and when I return. Basement temp is around 60F.

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No apparent change...both batches look exactly the same as when I added the gelatin. Going to rack to kegs (with screens on dip tubes) chill and carbonate.

I just brewered 10 gal of blonde on Sunday. I plan on taking a gravity reading this Sunday and if it's where I want it to be then I'll toss in some gelatin. It will be the first time I use it but I want to make my beers much clearer than what they have been in the past. Here is what I will do just from reading this thread:

crash cool after acceptable gravity reading for a day until it's down to 35.
Add 1 tsp Knox gelatin to 2 cups of 180 deg water and let cool to 100
check clarity after 2 days and rack to kegs

I'll follow up and let you all know how it goes!

I'm going to use gelatin for a Brown Ale I brewed with Sap. I pulled a sample and kept it in the fridge over night. It's not clearing very well (I'm guessing due to the sap used) and I'll be carbonating it with maple syrup in the keg. I figure, why not heat up the map syrup (11 oz for 9 gallons) + 5 oz of water (16 oz total) to a boil, let it cool to 170, add a packet of gelatin, mix thoroughly until combined and then pour into the keg and rack the beer onto it? Seems like it wouldn't add much time to my process and get the beer to clear faster. Anyone have any reasons why this shouldn't be done?

Anyone thought about trying to maybe add half a pack of Gelatin to the secondary to clear, and THEN add the second half, or even a quarter package at bottling time?

This seems like a good plan to clear out most of the crap before you bottle it, and then that little bit of Jello you put in at bottling might cement the sediment to the bottom of your bottles making pouring a breeze!

Thoughts!?!?

I might give this a go. . . .

I'm finding that racking on top of gelatin is not as effective as pouring it in slowly on top.

The geltain worked great! My beer is much clearer than what it normally is, still not crystal clear though. U don't think you can get to that brilliant level without filtering. In either case, I will be using gelatin for all of my brews going forward.

I just kegged a lager that I put 1/2 a packet of knox gelatin in (heated, cooled, poured into secondary). There didn't appear to be a layer of anything at the bottom of the carboy when I was done. I saw some gelatin balls on the bottom, but not a layer. Just wondering if this is typical, or if I didn't use enough gelatin.

Forgot to mention the gelatin was in the carboy for a week.

Schwoopty said:

The geltain worked great! My beer is much clearer than what it normally is, still not crystal clear though. U don't think you can get to that brilliant level without filtering. In either case, I will be using gelatin for all of my brews going forward.

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You can get the crystal clear without filtering

I use gelatin in all my lighter beers . I just add the packet to 8 oz of water let it bloom and then heat to 170° and kill the heat.Add its while its hot I pour it right into the primary that has been crashed cooled @34° or so for 2 -3 days . I used to have some haze before I started using the gelatin, no more .

Pale ale no clearing agents added to the boil



Amber ale

Purty!

Is that a Big Green Egg thermometer clip next to the Pale Ale?

Also, a practical question, I've got a Blonde Ale that will be three weeks in the primary (glass carboy) this weekend. SG has stabled at 1.014 and I think it's time to bottle. Since I'd be pouring from the mouth of the carboy, is there any concern about splashage (just made that word up) or the gelatin penetrating too far into the beer and not falling slowly?

Can I mix up my gelatin, cool it and pour it into my wine thief and then sneak it around the edges and then use the thief to slowly swirl the beer? Or is the gelatin too thick?