When do you add your finishing yeast?

Add the first yeast pitch for flavor, but when do you add your finishing or drying heat to the fermentor?

Thanks
Tac

I'm not sure I follow. Do you mean warming up the beer a few degrees to finish out the last few points of attenuation?

I mean how folks add the "flavor" profile yeast in the beginning, then add your higher attenuating yeast to finish it out.

Not sure if you do it after high krausen has dropped, during, or if it matters after krausen?

Sorry - can't help. I've never done that.

Don't know of too many folks that do that.

I add my finishing yeast in primary when the wort is at my desired temperature. The only time i've heard of someone doing a second pitch is a stuck or during brett/lacto/pedio pitches where pH and gravity and alcohol tolerance matter. AS for changing temperatures I've only heard of that for lagers and not ales but I'm sure you could change temperatures during ale fermentation if you so desired with a heating source and a temperature controller.

I am wondering where I've read this as I thought it was common practice.

Basic idea is said o add your first pitch like normal for the flavor profile of the yeast you wanted, but then a secondary pitch at some point during fermentation to finish it out.

I know I've read about this. Guess it's time to put on my reading glasses again lol

We have a brewer in the store that will make REALLY REALLY big beers, REALLY BIG BEERS. Beers that will go WAY past the ABV of say an English strain. But he wants that "English" yeast character imparted in the beer. He swears by pitching a second (high ABV tolerant yeast like EC1118, I have seen him use whiskey yeasts as well) yeast from a HUGE starter as the original yeast is about ABV dead. His beers get down the the FG he wants so I guess its working.


Not sure if this is what you mean or not....


Cheers
Jay

I don't think this is common practice. Rather... a very uncommon practice among homebrewers...

I too have never done this and except for the very highest of gravity brews not necessary at all.

Yeah, a quick Google search is leaving me coming up empty on answers for this.

I know without a doubt I've read something on this practice, but for the life of me cannot remember where.

I've watched/read so many articles on yeast in the past couple weeks there's absolutely no telling. Dang this search is going to drive me nuts but I'll find wherever I read it. I very well could have misread or simply misunderstood what I thought I read too so that doesn't help the search either lol

https://m.reddit.com/r/Homebrewing/comments/2vnhpa/can_a_second_round_of_yeast_pitching_with_a/

At least I know I'm not crazy lol

A champagne yeast will not work, unless you are feeding the beer simple sugars to get high gravity. Your initial yeast will have used all the simple sugars and left the more complex sugars that champagne yeast will not work on.

I jhave done this technique once. I had a barley wine stall at 1.020 (too sweet for me), so I made a big starter with 3711, then added some of the beer to the starter. Once fermenting, I added the starter to the main beer. Took it down to 1.010.

I think you need to make a starter and add it when it is actively fermenting, as the main batch is slowing down.

Calder said:

A champagne yeast will not work, unless you are feeding the beer simple sugars to get high gravity. Your initial yeast will have used all the simple sugars and left the more complex sugars that champagne yeast will not work on.



I jhave done this technique once. I had a barley wine stall at 1.020 (too sweet for me), so I made a big starter with 3711, then added some of the beer to the starter. Once fermenting, I added the starter to the main beer. Took it down to 1.010.



I think you need to make a starter and add it when it is actively fermenting, as the main batch is slowing down.

Click to expand...

This is basically what I read. Something very similar, basically to retain the flavor profile, but to drop the fg down a few points to get it a smidge dryer

Sounds like you have your answer in the posts above, but unless you are making something really high ABV, it's not typically necessary for most ales. If using liquid yeast, making an adequate starter, oxygenating the wort, pitching at the correct temps, etc, will in most cases get you to target FG. For instance, I have no issues getting WLP007 to 7.5-8%, and I'm sure I could get it to 9 or 10 - just haven't tried. What are you trying to make that might necessitate a second yeast pitch?

BrewinBromanite said:

Sounds like you have your answer in the posts above, but unless you are making something really high ABV, it's not typically necessary for most ales. If using liquid yeast, making an adequate starter, oxygenating the wort, pitching at the correct temps, etc, will in most cases get you to target FG. For instance, I have no issues getting WLP007 to 7.5-8%, and I'm sure I could get it to 9 or 10 - just haven't tried. What are you trying to make that might necessitate a second yeast pitch?

Click to expand...

Nothing in particular I guess. Just read about it somewhere as though it was common practice.

For instance, I had trouble getting 04 down below the high teens. More than likely my fault because I didn't do a starter and my only wort aeration was from the pour into the fermentor bucket.

I guess it would be a neat experiment to get the malt taste but a dryer finish and that could very possibly be the type of yeast I need to be trying?

Tactical-Brewer said:

Nothing in particular I guess. Just read about it somewhere as though it was common practice.

For instance, I had trouble getting 04 down below the high teens. More than likely my fault because I didn't do a starter and my only wort aeration was from the pour into the fermentor bucket.

I guess it would be a neat experiment to get the malt taste but a dryer finish and that could very possibly be the type of yeast I need to be trying?

Click to expand...

Depending on the recipe, the high teens might be right for a FG.

S-04 is a dry yeast and you should re-hydrate but NOT make a starter. Dry yeast is also engineered in a way that aeration is less important.

If you want a drier beer, it is a combination of recipe and probably a different yeast.

Again, adding a finishing yeast is usually a corrective procedure, an attempt to fix a problem.

kh54s10 said:

Depending on the recipe, the high teens might be right for a FG.



S-04 is a dry yeast and you should re-hydrate but NOT make a starter. Dry yeast is also engineered in a way that aeration is less important.



If you want a drier beer, it is a combination of recipe and probably a different yeast.



Again, adding a finishing yeast is usually a corrective procedure, an attempt to fix a problem.

Click to expand...

Agree with the above! I second that dry yeast (such as S-04) don't require a starter, but should be rehydrated for best results (most viable cells). Of course, there's other variable at play. For instance, standard dry yeast packs are typically more than adequate for standard ABV (4-6%), 5 gallon batch ales (all of this advice is based off generalities and a basic understanding of the brewing process).

I would recommend rehydrating following manufacturer instructions, pitch the slurry into the wort at manufacture recommended temperatures (the wort temp at at pitching), aerate to some degree never seems like a bad idea even with dry yeast (again - check yeast manufacturer guidance) , and follow manufacturer guidelines with respect to the capabilities of the yeast in relation to the style, fermentability of the wort (estimated OG and FG are good indicators), and batch size -- and adjust accordingly depending on what beer & what size batch you are making. Again, for standard ABV ales, following basic tried and true procedures, you shouldn't need a second pitch. As stated, it's usually employed if something goes wrong, and the original pitch ends up not as viable as planned, thereby failing to do the job adequately the first go around.

Hope some of this is helpful!

I understand the idea behind dry yeast, rehydrating, etc.

The basis for the question was regarding a "Finishing Yeast", not necessarily regarding a stuck fg or anything of that nature.

I read a forum, or paper, or watched a youtube video that basically said (and I'm paraphrasing here), "You can attain a lower FG by adding a second yeast that ferments out to a lower FG but keep the taste profile of the first yeast you pitch."

It's not really a question about poor yeast performance or not getting as low of an FG as I was hoping. I understand 04 can peter out in the high teens. But, again, it would be awesome to have the taste profile of 04, but get a lower FG and a slightly dryer brew.

I do appreciate all the help, just think the convo got a little sidetracked lol. Anyways, I will continue to look for where I read it if anyone is interested.

ive been playing with this in a lot of my beers. I use it for DIPAs, big belgians, and just plain blending yeasts. Using select "auxiliary" strains you can fix attenuation issues, stuck fermentation, body issues, etc as well

I either just pitch them together if I want flavors from both, or add my second strain 2-3 days into fermentation. I'll go longer if I want as little flavor impact as possible

m00ps said:

ive been playing with this in a lot of my beers. I use it for DIPAs, big belgians, and just plain blending yeasts. Using select "auxiliary" strains you can fix attenuation issues, stuck fermentation, body issues, etc as well

I either just pitch them together if I want flavors from both, or add my second strain 2-3 days into fermentation. I'll go longer if I want as little flavor impact as possible

Click to expand...

Now this is what I'm talking about! :rockin:

Have you had good success with keeping the flavor profile of your initial yeast you pitch but dropping the FG down a bit with the second?

Tactical-Brewer said:

Now this is what I'm talking about! :rockin:

Have you had good success with keeping the flavor profile of your initial yeast you pitch but dropping the FG down a bit with the second?

Click to expand...

Yeah for the most part. Usually I try to pick out a strain that will kind of work with what I am going for with the yeast flavors. But after like a week of fermentation, most of the beers flavor is pretty locked in at that point. Unless there is still a ton of fermentable sugars left, any further fermentation by any other yeast you add wont provide much additional flavor other than drying out the beer more and minimizing sweetness

m00ps said:

Yeah for the most part. Usually I try to pick out a strain that will kind of work with what I am going for with the yeast flavors. But after like a week of fermentation, most of the beers flavor is pretty locked in at that point. Unless there is still a ton of fermentable sugars left, any further fermentation by any other yeast you add wont provide much additional flavor other than drying out the beer more and minimizing sweetness

Click to expand...

Awesome! This is exactly the information I was looking for!

m00ps said:

Yeah for the most part. Usually I try to pick out a strain that will kind of work with what I am going for with the yeast flavors. But after like a week of fermentation, most of the beers flavor is pretty locked in at that point. Unless there is still a ton of fermentable sugars left, any further fermentation by any other yeast you add wont provide much additional flavor other than drying out the beer more and minimizing sweetness

Click to expand...

One caveat that is probably worth mentioning: depending on your recipe, after a week of fermentation, the ABV might be sufficiently high to kill (or at least severely impede) some strains of yeast that aren't highly alcohol-tolerant. For example, your beer might be at 9% ABV, and your second yeast strain tops out at 9%. The yeast could be strained, stall out, or die off at that point.

Anyway, just a consideration to think about (if you haven't already). Choose your yeast strains wisely! :rockin:

Hi folks. New to the forum. This seems like a wonderful resource for beer making. Just found this thread and it is exactly what I'm in the middle of.

Yesterday, (I'm a day late, here) I bottled an Imperial IPA built from an extract kit. It started out at 1.070 OG and fermented down to target gravity of 1.020 after about a week using WY1272. So far, so good. This is my fourth batch, and I wanted this batch to get to a lower final gravity due to the beer being a little too sweet for my tastes. So I added a smack-pack of WY3711 and let it go for another 6 days. Gravity got down to 1.014.

Here's my problem. Much of what I read about 3711 says it's a monster and will attenuate down to 1.005 or lower. Since I bottled at 1.014 I'm worried about bottle bombs. In hindsight, I think I should have kegged it or waited until I got two or three days of consistent gravity measurements to ensure fermentation was complete. Should I be worried?

I intend to open one in about a week to see how it's trending.

Thanks for any and all advice.
Cheers,
Joe

Radiation-Joe said:

Hi folks. New to the forum. This seems like a wonderful resource for beer making. Just found this thread and it is exactly what I'm in the middle of.

Yesterday, (I'm a day late, here) I bottled an Imperial IPA built from an extract kit. It started out at 1.070 OG and fermented down to target gravity of 1.020 after about a week using WY1272. So far, so good. This is my fourth batch, and I wanted this batch to get to a lower final gravity due to the beer being a little too sweet for my tastes. So I added a smack-pack of WY3711 and let it go for another 6 days. Gravity got down to 1.014.

Here's my problem. Much of what I read about 3711 says it's a monster and will attenuate down to 1.005 or lower. Since I bottled at 1.014 I'm worried about bottle bombs. In hindsight, I think I should have kegged it or waited until I got two or three days of consistent gravity measurements to ensure fermentation was complete. Should I be worried?

I intend to open one in about a week to see how it's trending.

Thanks for any and all advice.
Cheers,
Joe

Click to expand...

Yes, you answered your own question. Always get to a stable gravity before bottling unless you want to risk bottle bombs or gushers.
FG depends upon grist, mash procedures, yeast, temperature, and myriad other smaller factors. Only your beer can tell you when it is finished. Expected FG may not be actual FG.
Also, to the original post- a common method for "finishing yeast" is to ferment a saison with WY3724 for flavor profile and add WY3711 to finish out and avoid the stall in fermentation some brewers get.

Just finished off the last bottle of my WY1272/WY3711 IIPA experiment. Didn't dry out the beer as much as I had hoped, but it was an improvement. No gushers or bottle bombs from bottling too early. The beer did improve over the eight weeks since bottling. Main difference seemed to be more effervescence, which increased with time. It also had a more robust head that persisted throughout each glass. Still a little too much mouth feel (if I'm using that term correctly) than what I'd like.

My current batch included a new variable. I acidified the mash by adding 1/4 cup lemon juice before adding the grain (still an extract kit). The initial fermentation went from an OG of 1.070 down to 1.015 on WY1272 at 62 degrees over about 3 weeks, which is excellent attenuation considering the kit says it should finish around 1.020. Tasted the brew at this point and got a more crisp taste with less mouthfeel than previous batches. I attribute this to the lower pH (4.8 on a test strip during mash).

Still transferred to a glass carboy and repitched with WY3711 at room temperature (around 68) as planned. After nine days gravity was only down to 1.012 and still bubbling through the airlock. At that point I added 2 oz of Citra and 1 oz of Mosaic hops. It's now a week later and I'm still getting bubbling (once per minute) and the gravity is only down to 1.010. Since I was ok last time bottling at 1.014, I'm going to bottle this one tonight before the aromatics from the dry hops fade any more.

I tasted the gravity measurement and am happy. Not as sweet as usual, maybe even a hair on the sour side, but that may just be my untrained taste buds. Hops aren't as loud and clear as I'd like for this batch. I'm actually not a huge hop fan, but the Mrs. is, so my IPAs and IIPAs get a healthy addition of hops at the end.

That's a great idea! I've found multiple articles where White Labs agrees to use multiple strains or additional pitches to reach your goals.
Here's one http://www.whitelabs.com/beer/using-multiple-yeast-strains
A good one http://www.homebrewersassociation.o...df/2014/A Guide To Blending Yeast Strains.pdf

I recently tried one, a wet hop IPA.
Mashed 152 for 60 min. 1.045 start
Pitched Wyeast 1056
7 days later pitched White Labs 007
Wanted dry finish and ended at 1.006.
The beer was a hit at my brew club meeting.
I like to wash my yeast and plan to use the slurry later.

m00ps said:

Yeah for the most part. Usually I try to pick out a strain that will kind of work with what I am going for with the yeast flavors. But after like a week of fermentation, most of the beers flavor is pretty locked in at that point. Unless there is still a ton of fermentable sugars left, any further fermentation by any other yeast you add wont provide much additional flavor other than drying out the beer more and minimizing sweetness

Click to expand...

If you read the book "Yeast" the guy that owns white labs (can't remember his name now) recommends people doing this. He has a whole chapter about how the first 1/3rd of fermentation is where flavor is set (that is obviously depended on exactly how much sugars you have) and after that he recommends people adding yeast for either further attenuation or for more flocculation. I very much recommend reading it I had a great time learning more about yeast