kegging questions

I am new to homebrewing and have my first "batch" ready for bottling/kegging. I have a cornelius keg and want to keg this batch. Question is how best to carbonate? I have read about using corn sugar, as in bottling and have been told to use CO2? Which is preferred? Also should I siphon the beer into the keg and let sit in the fridge to chill first or carbonate right away? last question (for now)...What temp should I keep my fridge at for storing the keg? My normal beer fridge is usually around 33-35 f.
Thanks for any advice or info.

Use corn sugar if you need to keep the keg out of the fridge for a couple weeks, force carb using Co2 if you can get it in the fridge. Your temps are fine. You can put the gas on the keg as soon as you put it in the fridge, it doesn't have to be cold first but it won't really start absorbing co2 until the temp drops.

Thanks.
What is the best method of force carbing? I read to just pressurize the keg with co2 and let set. Also was told to pressuruze the tank with 30-35 psi and then vent to get all the air out and then pressurize through the outlet to force carb???

Its best to force carbonate at about 12-14 psi and let sit for a week or so however you can speed carbonate by bringing it up to 35-40 psi for a few days. The only problem with doing this is it is hard to control how much co2 gets absorbed within the beer and makes it hard to emulate as carbonation adds to the profile of the beer. It is very easy to over carbonate by using this method.

I've never understood why anyone would want to use corn sugar to carbonate kegged beer. Why not use the CO2 that you already have? Unless you don't have a way to chill the beer down that is. The beer will absorb more CO2 if it is cold. I usually keep my secondaries in the fridge for a day or so to chill the beer before I keg it.
I keep all of my beers at about 38 degrees. I've had very good luck with them clarifying and the beer seems to store quite well. I can always warm a keg up a bit if I want to serve it warmer.

A good reason would be if you have a 2-keg fridge and like to age/carb your kegs outside the fridge.

Ifyou can get it in the fridge, put gas on it at the above stated 12-14 lbs, and wait.

Your beer needs more time to age to taste its best anyways.

If you force carb at a higher pressure, you will just be temted to drink it before it's ready (plus it's a royal PITA to get proper carbonation as earlier mentiontioned).

Thanks for all the input. I have the CO2 system to use, so I will put it in the fridge with the CO2 on at 12-14 psi and wait. I am trying to get a good beer not a FAST beer! I can wait.
Thanks again.

Sea said:

Ifyou can get it in the fridge, put gas on it at the above stated 12-14 lbs, and wait.

Your beer needs more time to age to taste its best anyways.

If you force carb at a higher pressure, you will just be temted to drink it before it's ready (plus it's a royal PITA to get proper carbonation as earlier mentiontioned).

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I thought I would expand on Sea's comments.

To have good beer. I am assuming that you are making ale.

Most beer needs at least a month to condition. High alcohol beer even longer.

So 1 week in the primary, 1 week in the secondary, and then a month of conditioning. 6 weeks total minimum.

You can force carbonate your beer, but you'll have carbonated green beer.
(not green in color green as in not ripe)

Also putting your green beer in the fridge straight out of the secondary will retard the conditioning process. It needs to age at the fermentation temp for that month.

Otherwise your beer won't be anywhere near as good as it could be.

With ale the fridge is for storage after the beer has been properly conditioned.

I agree and I've been guilty of this a lot recently. I typically keg right after the beer clears up which in the case of my last batch was exactly 2 weeks after brewing. Once it's in the keg, I put it in the kegerator and put the CO2 on it. I wonder how much quality I'm giving up on this one. You typically see people refering to "conditioning" and "cold conditioning". Are these really two different things? I do doubt that ale yeasts will do much of anything at 40F. My impression of conditioning is that it leaves the remaining viable yeast alone to clean up the fusels etc. The problem I have with this logic is that many of my beers still get better over time while they're chilled and carbed so....

this is all interesting stuff, I am in the position where my mini-fridge will only fit one keg...but I own 5 cornies. I basically tap one beer and drink until it is done, I just kegged my second beer, attached the CO2 and hit it up to 20psi (raspberry wheat) shook for a few minutes with the CO2 attached, and put it down in my basement (~65-70*F now)...and there it will sit until I finish the hefe in my mini-fridge now. Would it have been better to just leave it flat until I was ready to tap it?

So let me get the timing straight...
Ferment in the primary 1 week transfer to secondary and let sit another week. Transfer to the keg add the 12-14 psi and let sit at the room temp (where it has been fermenting) for another month then refridgerate and tap??
Sound right?
Thanks again!

Colorado:
You'll want to keep topping up the CO2 in the keg. The beer in not compressible so only the air/CO2 in the top is actually compressed and as the beer absorbs the CO2 the pressure will decrease. You'll want to keep adding CO2 until it stops dropping. I think you'll be better off carbing it, leaving it uncarbed is more likely to get oxidized if you don't purge it or for O2 to leak in if there is no pressure differential.

bbarnthouse:
The only thing you'll have to worry about is that cold beer will hold more dissolved CO2 than warm beer so it might take another day or two for the beer to reach full carbonation. Alternatively you could use this chart and just put it under higher pressure at room temperature. Once the beer is carbed at room temp don't put CO2 on it once it's in the fridge until it's fully cooled at which time the pressure should be right where you want it.

What chart? This is porbably alot simpler than I am making it?? As stated I am a beginner. Read that BEGINNER. I have a secondary full and it has been sitting for about a week now. I have a keg and want to get it right. So I am still not sure what is my next step? Put it in the keg and pressurize to 12-14 and let it set at room temp or fridge? Or do I put it in the keg and pressurize to 20+ psi and stick in fridge?
I know...I know..I just don't seem to be getting the jest of all this?
Did I mention I was a beginner. Sorry to ask you to go over it again.

Thanks.

RichBrewer said:

...I've never understood why anyone would want to use corn sugar to carbonate kegged beer. Why not use the CO2 that you already have?...

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I have to chime in. When I started doing 10-gallon batches, I thought I'd save CO2 by gassing one keg and then priming the other and setting aside.

Now I don't have overly sensitive taste buds, but there is an absolute difference in taste between the gassed and the primed batches.

My Bass & Co Ale out of the gassed keg was an incredibly smooth, low hopped beer that everyone said was very good. Once I got round to tapping the second keg, there was a strong yeast bite that never went away.

I thought it was a fluke until I tapped into my Red Hook ESB the same way...YEAST BITE. Granted these are lower hopped beers and the yeast bite may not be noticeable in an APA or an IPA.

It was enough to make me trade in my 10# tank for a 20#. SO now I have two 20# tanks and I shall never prime again....

bbarn,

Best is to put the CO2 on it and put it in the fridge at 12-14psi and leave the CO2 attached. This way, as CO2 is absorbed into the beer the regulator and tank will keep the tank at the set pressure.

Here is the URL for the pressure/temp chart: http://www.northernbrewer.com/instructions/co2.htm

If you look at the chart it becomes pretty clear that the colder your beer is the lower pressure you need on the regulator to get the same level of carbonation.

So, if you carbonate beer to 2 atmospheres at 60 degrees you will need 16psi. If you put a sealed keg carbonated at 2 atm. at 60 degrees into the fridge and chill it to 38 degrees you will still have 2 atm. of carbonation but you can turn the regulator down to 6 psi to maintain the same carbonation level.

Sorry if I'm making this seem more difficult than it really is, it's quite simple. Look at the chart for the beer temp and level of carbonation you want, set your regulator accordingly. Until your beer is fully carbonated as it absorbs CO2 you'll need to replace the CO2 in the keg at the prescribed pressure, which is why you need the regulator and the tank connected until the beer if fully carbed.

Thanks.
I'll get on it!

Dantodd's advise about carbonation is true.

But from my experience you'll need to condition you beer for a month at fermentation temp. to get the best tasting beer you can have. I think cold conditioning of ale just slows or stops the process.

It makes absolutely no sense to me to carbonate your beer before it's properly conditioned (but I don't think it would make all that much difference but don't know as I haven't done that or a side by side comparison). After you transfer to the keg a little squirt of CO2 then popping the pressure relief valve to purge any oxygen wouldn't hurt. Some people do that a couple of times, and some others claim it helps seal the keg.

No matter what you decide to do consider trying this:

Try not to aerate your beer as you transfer it to the keg.

Test your keg for leaks. You can do that by brushing a Star-San solution or a mild solution of soapy water on the keg lid, pressure relief valve and posts after you have pressurized it. If you use the soapy water be sure to thoughly rinse it off. If you have a leak you would see bubbles expanding and bursting as you brush the solution on.

Another way to test for leaks is if you purge the oxygen by pressurizing the keg then releasing all the pressure the keg should repressurize and a day later it should have pressure on it again from the fermentation process. I don't bother with any of that I just check to see it the keg has pressure a day or so after I transfer.

Again some people claim the you need to pressurize the keg to get a seal. I haven't found that to be the case but that doesn't mean it's not true for the keg they have on hand.

After about a week of conditioning, drink a glass, then after the 2nd week try another glass, and another glass on the 3rd week. by the end of the 4th week you should notice the beer is much better than all you previous tastings and that it got better with each passing week.

I've had beer I considered throwing away when it was 2 or 3 weeks old but let it continue to age and by the 6th week there was a vast improvement in the taste.

I guess some of the confusion came because you only asked how to carbonate your beer and so that's the advice you got. Also since most beginners bottle their beer the natural carbonation process and the conditioning process occur at about the same time frame and temp. so there is usually no need to mention it.

But when I read your thread it seemed to me that you intended to drink it as soon as it carbonated and nobody had mentioned condtioning your beer. So I wanted to make sure you were aware of the need for conditioning. And wanted to make sure you were aware that the beer would get better with a little bit of age. So that you would enjoy the fruits of your labor to the highest degree possible. Sorry if I contributed to your confusion. Hope some of this helped and did not further add to the confusion. Best wishes

When you say 4 weeks in the keg is needed, what are you assuming? Are you assuming that there was no secondary? Are you assuming 1 week in primary and 2 weeks in secondary?

As an example, my IPA has spent 15 days in the primary and 14 days in the secondary. If I were to keg today, would I want to let it sit in the keg for 4 weeks to let it condition? Or would 6 weeks total do the trick?

Sorry for the questions, just trying to figure this out too...

Thanks. Sounds like my confusion is from the difference between carbonating and conditioning? Also I am not interested in dringking the beer as soon as possible. My objective is two-fold: 1) To make my own quality beer and 2) learn and develop the necassary skills/techniques to accomplish the first. So don't hesitate to correct me on anything.
Just to be sure I've got it, to "condition"the beer in the keg I should have it at room temp with CO2 at 12psi for 4-6 weeks? Or..just pressurize enough to get the air out and then let sit for the 4-6 weeks before adding the CO2?
Thanks again.

ArroganceFan said:

When you say 4 weeks in the keg is needed, what are you assuming? Are you assuming that there was no secondary? Are you assuming 1 week in primary and 2 weeks in secondary?

As an example, my IPA has spent 15 days in the primary and 14 days in the secondary. If I were to keg today, would I want to let it sit in the keg for 4 weeks to let it condition? Or would 6 weeks total do the trick?

Sorry for the questions, just trying to figure this out too...

Click to expand...

I shoot for 6 week total.

I usually do 1 week in the primary 5 weeks in the secondary but then I use my corny kegs as secondaries.

I condition some beers longer but for an average 4-5% alcohol beer 6 weeks seems to give the best taste.

The best thing to do I think is taste a little every week then you can judge for yourself.

bbarnthouse said:

Just to be sure I've got it, to "condition"the beer in the keg I should have it at room temp with CO2 at 12psi for 4-6 weeks?


Or..just pressurize enough to get the air out and then let sit for the 4-6 weeks before adding the CO2?
Thanks again.

Click to expand...

Either way should work I would think.

But I use the second method. Keep it cool just like it was when it was fermenting. Then put the keg in the fridge for a week under pressure.

bbarnthouse said:

Thanks. Sounds like my confusion is from the difference between carbonating and conditioning? Also I am not interested in dringking the beer as soon as possible. My objective is two-fold: 1) To make my own quality beer and 2) learn and develop the necassary skills/techniques to accomplish the first. So don't hesitate to correct me on anything.
Just to be sure I've got it, to "condition"the beer in the keg I should have it at room temp with CO2 at 12psi for 4-6 weeks? Or..just pressurize enough to get the air out and then let sit for the 4-6 weeks before adding the CO2?
Thanks again.

Click to expand...

I would condition off CO2 at fermentation temp. If your beer is at FG you can either leave the keg sealed or, for insurance, just put a gas connection on with an airlock hooked up to it. Either way it is probably a good idea to purge the air but if your keg is actually full I'm sure the amount of air is no more (percentage wise) than the air space in a bottle.

one week before you're ready to drink it put it in the fridge and put the gas on.