Kettle size for both 5 and 10 gallon batches?

So I've finally made a firm decision to make the jump to all-grain. I have one 10 gallon rubbermaid cooler purchased, and was thinking about buying another this weekend, along with placing an order for the hardware to convert them to MT and HLT.

Then it occured to me that they'd do me no good until I upgrade my boiling setup. My current gear can do a 5 gallon extract batch, but not a 5 gallon all-grain. So I need a burner and brew kettle. Going to get a good turkey fryer kit as a "starter" burner, but have no idea what to do about a boil kettle.

I can't afford to go "high end", but I also don't want to waste money on garbage that I'll be upgrading within a year.

Long story short, what size kettle should I be looking at that will be big enough to move to 10 gallons when I'm ready, but not "too big" to do 5 gallon batches? Basically, I want any new purchases to be capable of both size batches. My intention is to move to 10 gallons, but I'll be stuck at 5 for awhile until I make some upgrades through the entire pipeline. And, unfortunately, money is very much a consideration these days.

I'm thinking 60 quart, but all of my googling returns all kinds of conflicting opinions.

Would appreciate suggestions, as well as the reasoning behind them.

The way I decided on my setup was to work backwards.

For a 10 gallon batch, I want to put 11 gallons in the fermenters.
(11 gallon boil-kettle needed)

I always leave about half a gallon of wort and "stuff" in the boil kettle.
(11.5 gallon boil kettle needed)

I boil off as much as 2 gallons depending on a recipe/boil time/temperature/etc.
(13.5 gallon boil kettle needed)

now, add in foam-up from that evil first hop addition, plus a good safety margin, and I decided on a 15 gallon pot for my 5 and 10 gallon batches.

It's been good to me so far, only had one boil-over ever.

I think if I had to do it again, I'd look for an even slightly bigger pot. Boil-overs are such an irritation, and another 1-2 gallon margin would make them a non-issue. 20 gallon seems like a waste though. And you might run into unforseen issues doing 5 gallons in a pot that big

I see you're trying to do this for as little cash as possible, (good decision) have you considered a keggle for a brew-pot? They' do 5 and 10 gallon batches just fine.

Oh, and a final note about going to 10 gallon. A blichmann burner really helped me get going with the bigger batches. Make sure your burner can get things hot enough fast enough for you.

I brew 5 gallon batches in an 8 gallon kettle.

10 gallon batches in a 15 gallon Keggle.

15 gallon batches in a 20 gallon Blingmann.

15 gallons is minimum for 10 gallon batches because they are really 11 gallon batches with a preboil volume of nearly 13 gallons. That's a pretty close threshold at initial hot break time.

Agree, 15 gallon kettle for a 10 gallon batch. Fermcap will be your best friend also.

i brew both 5 and 10 gallon batches in the same kettle. it's a 20 gallon aluminum stock pot

http://www.google.com/m/products/de...=products&hl=en&cid=5105477748470605997#prd:o

most people buy these on ebay. i was able to find a good deal locally at a restaurant supply store

Bobby_M said:

15 gallons is minimum for 10 gallon batches because they are really 11 gallon batches with a preboil volume of nearly 13 gallons. That's a pretty close threshold at initial hot break time.

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yea. this is why i went with 20 gal. you don't need to stand there like a hawk watching for boil over.

I would try for a 20 gal pot. While they are more expensive you will want to upgrade later so why spend the money twice? Going all grain will help keep your costs lower and pay for itself eventually...especially if you buy base grain in bulk

Brewing multiple batch sizes can be problematic if you use an immersion chiller. consider that a 5 gallon batch in a 20 gallon pot will only have a small amount of the chiller submerged. This problem goes away if you use a plate or counterflow chiller, but then you introduce extra complexity to your system, and may not make any better beer (although some will argue for the superiority of one method over another, I think immersion chillers work best for homebrewing, because they are easy to COMPLETELY sanitize, and chill fast if properly constructed.)

I do 30 gallon batches in a ~45 gallon kettle
I do 15 gallon batches in a 26 gallon morebeer kettle
I do 10 gallon batches in a 20 gallon stout tanks kettle
I have done 10 gallon batches in a converted keggle (15.5gallons) which worked well for me at the time, but you have to watch more closely for boil overs. This is a cheap way to be able to make 5 or 10 gallon batches, and I would recommend looking into this.

damnitbeavis said:

Brewing multiple batch sizes can be problematic if you use an immersion chiller. consider that a 5 gallon batch in a 20 gallon pot will only have a small amount of the chiller submerged. This problem goes away if you use a plate or counterflow chiller, but then you introduce extra complexity to your system, and may not make any better beer (although some will argue for the superiority of one method over another, I think immersion chillers work best for homebrewing, because they are easy to COMPLETELY sanitize, and chill fast if properly constructed.)

I do 30 gallon batches in a ~45 gallon kettle
I do 15 gallon batches in a 26 gallon morebeer kettle
I do 10 gallon batches in a 20 gallon stout tanks kettle
I have done 10 gallon batches in a converted keggle (15.5gallons) which worked well for me at the time, but you have to watch more closely for boil overs. This is a cheap way to be able to make 5 or 10 gallon batches, and I would recommend looking into this.

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This is why I do 5-10 gallon batches in a 15 gallon kettle, 15-25 gallon batches in a 30 gallon kettle and 25-40 gallon batches in a 55 gallon kettle. And I use a plate chiller so it does not make a difference.

I do 5 and 10 gallon batches in a half barrel (15.5 gal) keggle. I usually start with 7 gallons for a 5 gallon all grain batch and 13 gallons for a 10 gallon batch. I end up with 5.5 gallons in my 6 gallon BB fermenters this way, due to evaporation, coefficient of thermal expansion and hop absorption.

I'm in agreement that keggles would fit the bill perfectly for me at this stage. Just can't seem to get my hands on any. I check craigslist every day and have come up empty for many months now. Can find them on ebay, but everyone seems to want ridiculous money for shipping....

Any tips or tricks on getting my hands on some empty kegs?

Try asking a local brewery if they have any old ones they would be willing to sell. Tell them you are a homebrewer.

subliminalurge said:

I'm in agreement that keggles would fit the bill perfectly for me at this stage. Just can't seem to get my hands on any. I check craigslist every day and have come up empty for many months now. Can find them on ebay, but everyone seems to want ridiculous money for shipping....

Any tips or tricks on getting my hands on some empty kegs?

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Where in the country are you located?

OneHoppyGuy said:

Where in the country are you located?

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I'm currently in Moline, IL.

Placed an ad in the "Items Wanted" section of craigslist. I've gotten two responses but neither one will say what they want, they just ask "What will you give me for it?"

I'm thinking $25 is a fair price to offer, and I'll bump it up a little bit if necessary. Does that sound about right?

For much more than that I can just go get a keg from the store, drink the contents, and eat the deposit.

lowest price I get them is direct from brewers $40 each for decommissioned kegs with documentation.
CraigsList average price in Northern CA is $50 with no clue as to whether they have been legally acquired.

OneHoppyGuy said:

CraigsList average price in Northern CA is $50 with no clue as to whether they have been legally acquired.

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That's about the price of the deposit around here, so I could get them from the store for that. Sure, I'd have to buy the contents also, but I'm sure I can find kegs of something that I wouldn't mind drinking.

I'm assuming that anyone willing to sell one on craigslist has screwed something up and is no longer able to return it for the deposit. As such, I don't see why I should be paying the full deposit back for them. At least not as my initial offer....

I'll offer them 30 and see what they say.

subliminalurge said:

That's about the price of the deposit around here, so I could get them from the store for that. Sure, I'd have to buy the contents also, but I'm sure I can find kegs of something that I wouldn't mind drinking.

I'm assuming that anyone willing to sell one on craigslist has screwed something up and is no longer able to return it for the deposit. As such, I don't see why I should be paying the full deposit back for them. At least not as my initial offer....

I'll offer them 30 and see what they say.

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The deposit is just that. It's a way to get the honest person to bring them back. It's not to say that you can "buy" the keg for the deposit. That keg really cost the brewery $100 (for a used keg) - $200 (for a new keg). So what you are saying you could do, is like renting a car and not returning it.....

Try a scrap yard, and tell everyone you know your looking for one.. After several weeks of craigslist, I mentioned it to my sister and her boyfriend had two in great condition behind his house... I also got one from the local brewery

Well, my craigslist ad paid off. Got an email from a guy this morning with one and he accepted my offer of $25 for it.

Now just need 2 more.

subliminalurge - can I borrow you car? :fro:

OneHoppyGuy said:

subliminalurge - can I borrow you car? :fro:

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I'll give you a $100 deposit so that way you wont be out anything. I "may" cut a hole on the top though.

subliminalurge said:

Well, my craigslist ad paid off. Got an email from a guy this morning with one and he accepted my offer of $25 for it.

Now just need 2 more.

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That's excellent!!

Well, you all succeeded in getting my conscience going on me. I sent the seller an email reminding him that he could probably return it for the deposit and get more money than the 25 bucks that I offered him. He replied that the keg was no longer able to be returned.

That's all the detective work I'm going to put in. The keg isn't going back to the distributor either way, and how he came to be in possession if it or why he can't return it is quite frankly not my problem, so I'm going to consider it fair game to cut the top off and use it as a BK with a clear conscience.

That's also part of the reason for my lowball offer, to make sure I'm getting kegs that are unreturnable for one reason or another. Nobody in their right mind would sell it to me for $25 if a quick drive to the liquor store would get them $50. (The other part of the reason is that I'm in tight-wad mode these days and that's just plain all I want to pay. )

FSR402 said:

I'll give you a $100 deposit so that way you wont be out anything. I "may" cut a hole on the top though.

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The difference is that I will be willing to take the truck back when you bring it to me. Since I'm offering to buy kegs for roughly half of what the deposit on them is, it seems reasonable to assume that returning them isn't an available option.

You've done enough detective work, now cut the top off ,,

joeybeer said:

You've done enough detective work, now cut the top off ,,

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Well, I have to wait until I actually pick it up this weekend. and then go buy an angle grinder. A step bit and ball valve..... And there's no rush since I don't have a burner yet...

Crap, there goes this week's paycheck!

Ok I'll cut you some slack now.

It's just a sensitive subject for me. I'm working on going pro and leaning to the plastic kegs just so I don't have a bunch of homebrewers steeling my kegs and cutting them open.

FSR402 said:

Ok I'll cut you some slack now.

It's just a sensitive subject for me. I'm working on going pro and leaning to the plastic kegs just so I don't have a bunch of homebrewers steeling my kegs and cutting them open.

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Plastic kegs? Hey, I bet they'd make great fermenters!!! What's your deposit on them going to be?

(Sorry, couldn't resist....)

subliminalurge said:

Plastic kegs? Hey, I bet they'd make great fermenters!!! What's your deposit on them going to be?

(Sorry, couldn't resist....)

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Less people doing that then keggles.

What about your hlt and mlt .. I would like to do 5 and ten gallon batches. I have settles on a 15 gallon bk but i do want to over do my mlt with a 15 gallon capacity and not be able to do 5 gallon batches

I do 6 and 11 gallon batches in a 15 gallon blichmann. Just watch it closely.