Couple of questions with grain mashing, processes, and a few other things

Ok, so I made my first partial mash brew today... I have a few questions about things...

At what point is it considered more all grain or partial mash? Is any use of DME/LME considered a partial mash?

At what point is boil times too much? I know there are some that have 120 minute boil times, is longer a bad idea or is it ok as long as you don't go too high in temperature?

I was keeping my temperatures just above boil for the boil astage, but went a little longer than I think many do (although I could be wrong)... I was looking to make sure that I got as close to 5 gallons as possible (without going over). Turns out, I ended up with about 4 gallons in the fermentor. Even adding water back to get to 5 gallons I was above my goal starting gravity number (target was 1.082, hit 1.084)... I was watching the pots for pretty much the entire cooking time, to make sure nothing ran away from me.

I will be looking to get a larger pot to sparge with before I brew again (looking at 32qt and 40qt pots)... I also plan on either marking the pot, or my stirrer so that I know when I'm at the target level (probably going to mark it at 3, 4, 5, and 6 gallons). I'm going to plan to mash in the 5 gallon pot (unless I can get a large cooler to mash in).

I'm hoping that I didn't screw things up with the longer boil time with this brewing. Since I had to use the bucket for this one, I can't tell if it's post the lag phase yet or not. That's one of the things I really don't like about using the bucket. Due to how the last batch took off like a rocket, I've set up a blow-off tube for this batch.

I used the threads by DeathBrewer as guidelines for this batch. I also used information from a few other threads hoping to get better efficiency for this brewing. Looks like I hit about 73%... Hopefully I'll do as well, or better, with the next batch.

I'll probably be brewing on the [gas] stove for at least the next few brewings, if not longer. For 10-15 pounds of grain, should I be safe with a 32 quart pot for sparging, or would I be better off with a 40 quart? The 40 quart is about 20-25% more than the 32 quart... I'll be getting the pot from a restaurant supply superstore, so it's not like I'm paying retail...

How about a 40qt. pot for $32? Lids sold separately.
http://www.samsclub.com/sams/shop/product.jsp?productId=102996&navAction=

RCCOLA said:

How about a 40qt. pot for $32? Lids sold separately.
http://www.samsclub.com/sams/shop/product.jsp?productId=102996&navAction=

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The closest Sam's Club is 45+ minutes away from me. With what I'd burn in fuel, any savings would be gone. Especially when I can get a 40 qt aluminum pot for $44 (plus $7 for the lid) from here: http://www.therdstore.com/page/IFSES/ALUMSTOCK/ALST-40 They also have a 32 quart aluminum for $38...

With Aluminum, I thought you had to do something first, before using it... That's why I was looking to go with stainless steel (less things to worry about, or do before using it for the first time)... Stainless steel versions of those pots are $90 (32 quart) and $110 (40 quart)... If there's not much that would need to be done with the aluminum pot, then I'll go with that one this time. I can always get a stainless steel pot later on. I could even pick up a 32 and 40 quart pot (for mash and sparge) for about $82 that way (plus lids)...

I think the sparge water volume will be a little tight for my big brews that I'm making, with either pot... I have a stout recipe that I'm working on that has 14 pounds of grain, plus one 3.3 pound can of dark LME... I won't be able to do the 'standard' 2 quarts per pound of grain for the sparge water... That is, unless I do a cooler setup for this (which will cost additional money since I still need to get the boil pot)... Need to figure out how to do this setup with the lowest expense right now... Thinking that one 32-40 quart pot, plus a 10 gallon cooler could be the way to go... I have a large grain bag to use, to make things easier... I think I will get one, or two, of the 10 gallon coolers... I'll worry about setting up ball valves later, once I see if I'll actually need to do that for now.

Next I need to decide on the length of copper pipe (soft/bendable) to get to make my chiller... Thinking 20' of 3/8" since I can't see to find a single length of 25' or even 30'... Pretty cheap to get the pipe and fittings I'd need to make the chiller. Need to hold off on that until I actually get the pot home, so that I can make it to work best with it. The cold water in the kitchen sink worked pretty well yesterday. But, I suspect that the 40 quart pot might not fit into the sink so well... Although I could use the tub for the first batch or two...

Golddiggie said:

Turns out, I ended up with about 4 gallons in the fermentor. Even adding water back to get to 5 gallons I was above my goal starting gravity number (target was 1.082, hit 1.084)

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Was that 1.084 reading taken after topping off or calculated from the 4gal reading?

I also plan on either marking the pot, or my stirrer so that I know when I'm at the target level (probably going to mark it at 3, 4, 5, and 6 gallons).

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don't forget, theres about a 4% shrinkage factor, so you may want to mark a touch higher

At what point is boil times too much? I know there are some that have 120 minute boil times, is longer a bad idea or is it ok as long as you don't go too high in temperature? ... I think the sparge water volume will be a little tight for my big brews that I'm making, with either pot... I have a stout recipe that I'm working on that has 14 pounds of grain, plus one 3.3 pound can of dark LME... I won't be able to do the 'standard' 2 quarts per pound of grain for the sparge water...

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It kinda depends on the type of brew. Lighter brews want shorter boil times, but >120mins isn't a problem. sparge water is based on mash water, kettle loses, and boiling time. if you use the below calculation, it'll keep you to a more normal boil time. it's fairly normal to cut back on sparge water for larger batches anyway tho. oh, and unless you already have the dark lme, id ditch it for light lme since you'll be using grains anyway and might as well control what is used in it.

http://www.brew365.com/technique_calculating_mash_water_volume.php

dcp27 said:

Was that 1.084 reading taken after topping off or calculated from the 4gal reading?

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That was after adding enough water to get it up to the 5 gallon mark in the bucket fermentor.

don't forget, theres about a 4% shrinkage factor, so you may want to mark a touch higher

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Looking for more of guidelines so that I know when I'm close to the correct volume. I'm thinking that I'll either mark two wood spoons for the different sized pots (16 and 20 quart) or I might just find a way to mark the pots (small indents such as from a marking punch).

It kinda depends on the type of brew. Lighter brews want shorter boil times, but >120mins isn't a problem. sparge water is based on mash water, kettle loses, and boiling time. if you use the below calculation, it'll keep you to a more normal boil time. it's fairly normal to cut back on sparge water for larger batches anyway tho. oh, and unless you already have the dark lme, id ditch it for light lme since you'll be using grains anyway and might as well control what is used in it.

http://www.brew365.com/technique_calculating_mash_water_volume.php

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As I mentioned, this would be a STOUT, so the dark LME (which I already have four cans of) should be ok.

Thinking about it a little more, trying to buy as little as possible now, I could probably get away with just picking up the 10 gallon water cooler for now. I could mash in it, drain, then pour in the sparge water. I would drain into the two 20 quart pots I already have (splitting it between them) and then go from there. I have the large (24" square) grain bag to use, so I won't need to do anything really special to the cooler. I might install a ball valve in it, just so that I can use a tube to fill the pots up again.

I'm looking to ensure that I have good efficiency when brewing (anything over 70% and I'm happy, if I can get over 75% I'll be overjoyed)...

The calculator on the site you linked to goes against what DeathBrewer recommends (using the Green Bay Racker's calculator (http://www.rackers.org/calcs.shtml)... It also goes against the recommendations of .5 gallons per pound of grain for sparging. Makes me really wonder which calculator to use...

Going with the hardware I have now, and expect to pick up before the next brew day, I won't really have any trub loss. Mostly due to using the grain bag and being able to completely drain the water cooler between mashing/striking and sparging.

Golddiggie said:

That was after adding enough water to get it up to the 5 gallon mark in the bucket fermentor.

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then chances are the 1.084 reading is wrong. it's near impossible to get an accurate reading after topping off with water due to the difficult in mixing wort and water. in the future take it before topping off and calculate the correct OG (adjusted OG = post-boil OG * post-boil volume / adjusted volume)

It also goes against the recommendations of .5 gallons per pound of grain for sparging. Makes me really wonder which calculator to use...

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where are you getting this from? 0.5g/lb is a generic recommendation. the correct amount is whatever it takes to bring you to the correct pre-boil volume (6-6.5gal)

dcp27 said:

then chances are the 1.084 reading is wrong. it's near impossible to get an accurate reading after topping off with water due to the difficult in mixing wort and water. in the future take it before topping off and calculate the correct OG (adjusted OG = post-boil OG * post-boil volume / adjusted volume)

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Sorry, but I don't buy that at all...

where are you getting this from? 0.5g/lb is a generic recommendation. the correct amount is whatever it takes to bring you to the correct pre-boil volume (6-6.5gal)

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The .5 gal/pound is from DeathBrewer's threads, as well as others, when providing guidance to grain newbies...

If mixing wort and water was so difficult, then my OG's would have been way off target on my other brewings. Which they were not. I added about 1 gallon of cool water to the wort, so a rather small amount. Especially when compared with the other brews I've made.

Even if my sample was more water than wort, I'm pretty ok with that.

I might do a test to see what ABV the brew is, before bottling. I'll need to read up on that more before doing it... Or not care as long as it completes within the reasonable time frame.

I'm still thinking about racking onto some oak chips, which would be the perfect time to take a hydrometer reading too. That will be after at least two weeks in the fermentor it's in right now (probably more like 3-4 weeks)...