BiaB mash question

Using BiaB for a Ordinary Bitter today. To make up for the reduced water flow between the grains, can/should I increase the mach time to 90 minutes?

I am using MO, so I have some conversion concerns, and I want to try to get all the sugars I can, but I also want to minimize any tannins.

Tanks....

ISLAGI said:

Using BiaB for a Ordinary Bitter today. To make up for the reduced water flow between the grains, can/should I increase the mach time to 90 minutes?

I am using MO, so I have some conversion concerns, and I want to try to get all the sugars I can, but I also want to minimize any tannins.

Tanks....

Click to expand...

Typically with BIAB MASH TIME IS VERY IMPORTANT. You DO NOT want to short yourself here. DO a 90 minute mash, it will be helpful.

Thanks for the response, Pol....

OK, so I did the 90 minute mash, but I only got about 54% efficiency, and I am not sure why....

Grain bill:

Maris Otter Pale - 8 lbs.
Crystal 20L - 1 lb.
Flaked Barley - 1 lb

Mashed with 2 qts/lb for 90 minutes and sparged with ~4 gals. to make up boil volume. Mashed in @ 168, sparge water at 180. Pre-boil gravity 1.020. Shooting for a final volume of 6 gals.

Where am I going wrong?

ISLAGI said:

Thanks for the response, Pol....

OK, so I did the 90 minute mash, but I only got about 54% efficiency, and I am not sure why....

Grain bill:

Maris Otter Pale - 8 lbs.
Crystal 20L - 1 lb.
Flaked Barley - 1 lb

Mashed with 2 qts/lb for 90 minutes and sparged with ~4 gals. to make up boil volume. Mashed in @ 168, sparge water at 180. Pre-boil gravity 1.020. Shooting for a final volume of 6 gals.

Where am I going wrong?

Click to expand...

#1 that is a REALLY high stike temp... I am showing that resting at like 159 or 160... that is borderline deactivating enzymes.

#2 How was the grain milled? With BIAB is it customary to grind the malt finer than you would with a typical AG method since you have no worries about a stuck sparge.

#3 Did you MIX the grist well in the water? Are you certain that you didnt have dough balls still in the bag during the mash?

There are a lot of reasons that you can get bad eff. Typicall though BIAB is around 70% or better if done properly.

Id look at CRUSH, MIXING, MASH TEMP... first.

The Pol said:

#1 that is a REALLY high stike temp... I am showing that resting at like 159 or 160... that is borderline deactivating enzymes.

#2 How was the grain milled? With BIAB is it customary to grind the malt finer than you would with a typical AG method since you have no worries about a stuck sparge.

#3 Did you MIX the grist well in the water? Are you certain that you didnt have dough balls still in the bag during the mash?

Click to expand...

#1 Could be...Just went back and looked at BS...Should have been 163 based on my equipment

#2 I had my LHBS double grind for me. Maybe need to ask them to chimp down the gap next time.

#3 Could have been dough balls, but I didn't feel any while mixing...

To add to my questions, I took some Iodophor to check for conversion and it did not turn purple. I felt pretty good about that...

I'll just have to keep trying....

How did you sparge? Did you sprinkle/run the water over the bag or did you sparge in a separate vessel... dip and drain?

BargainFittings said:

How did you sparge? Did you sprinkle/run the water over the bag or did you sparge in a separate vessel... dip and drain?

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Batch sparged with 5 minutes of sit and stir. Lifted and let drip, then siphoned into brew pot...

I dont know of this matter at all, but most BIAB setups only use one pot. ALL of the water and the grain go into ONE kettle where the mash takes place. After the mash, the bag is lifted and it drains into the kettle.

The boil then takes place in the asme kettle that the mash was completed in. Sounds like you added a couple steps... dunno that it matters, but it could in some way.

Aside from the longer mash time and finer grind... a really good mashout to get the sugars hot and flowing from that grain bag is also very important... did you heat the mash to 168 or so to do this?

You should have soaked the grains with the 2qts/lb water AND the sparge water so it would have been about 9 gallons of water PLUS the grains all at once. You need a big pot to do that though. With your sparge process you essentially did a single sparge and let it drip out within 5 minutes. In a normal all grain setup process that could take someone about 30 mins+ to do a proper vorlauf and runoff of the grains.

Also you can usually take off a few degrees for the mash in temp. if you do all of the water with the grains becuase there is more water than grains and you won't get such a temperature change as if the grains were more than the water.

adamjab19 said:

You should have soaked the grains with the 2qts/lb water AND the sparge water so it would have been about 9 gallons of water PLUS the grains all at once. You need a big pot to do that though. With your sparge process you essentially did a single sparge and let it drip out within 5 minutes. In a normal all grain setup process that could take someone about 30 mins+ to do a proper vorlauf and runoff of the grains.

Also you can usually take off a few degrees for the mash in temp. if you do all of the water with the grains becuase there is more water than grains and you won't get such a temperature change as if the grains were more than the water.

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And this is never an issue if one uses a mash calculator or brewing software. This is one number that cannot be a guess.

9 gallons? To boil off down to 5? I'm going to have to disagree with that.

With BIAB, as The Pol said, you put all your water and grain into the pot, and stir.
You do not concern yourself with quarts/gallon or whatever. You just mix all in.
Typically, you can under-shoot your mash temp, because you are in your boil pot, and can always jack the heat up for a few mins after you add the grain. But Brewing software or at least a hand calculator and valid equations will be helpful.

Not saying what you did was "wrong" but if you are mashing in a cooler or whatever, and doing a batch sparge, I would loose the bag and get a braid or some copper w/slits.

I have a pretty good read about BIAB posted on Brewer's Friend, home brewing resources

There are A LOT of little things to consider when doing this method. Like the fact that the grain absorption is only about HALF of that in a typical AG brew? If you started with about 7 gallons of water for a 5 gallon brew, youd have about .5 gallons of absorption and maybe 1.5 gallons of boil off... so you would want to start with 7 gallons or so.

Again, it is not like typical AG mashing, there are a lot of little things to consider.

I agree that you should use all or almost all of your water in the pot. You should be able to crank up the efficiency by doing that and also grinding finer (if they'll do it for you). The nice thing about BIAB besides its simplicity is you don't loose any wort to dead space in your MLT.

The Pol said:

I have a pretty good read about BIAB posted on Brewer's Friend, home brewing resources

Click to expand...

I must be incredibly dense...I can't find the article. Would you please post a direct link?

Well, it was submitted, maybe it isnt up just yet? Id love to help search, but I am about to leave civilization for a week and dont have the time as I pack...

No worries. I searched and read through, but didn't see anything. I'll keep my eyes out for it

MMW said:

No worries. I searched and read through, but didn't see anything. I'll keep my eyes out for it

Click to expand...

Do that... sorry about it not being up yet!

JPicasso said:

9 gallons? To boil off down to 5? I'm going to have to disagree with that.

Click to expand...

Yeah that is alot now that I think about it. I think I only ever figured 1.25qts/lb or so when I did it.

See I BIAB inside a cooler at somewhere between 1.25 and 1.5qt/lb and then I sparge. Are you saying I should be doing it all in one shot? I feel like I wouldn't be getting all the sugars off really.

For the OP, stir every half hour during the mash and make sure you mix well during sparge.

BIAB is meant to be done in a single vessel.
That's why it was developed, simplicity.

You take your 8 pound grain bill (or whatever) in a bag,
and your hot pre-boil water say, 6.5 gallons.
Mix, mash, in your kettle. maybe throw a blanket on top, to reduce heat loss.
Then, pull the grain bag out, let drain, and start boiling.
No extra water to sparge with.
That's it, in a super-condensed form.

What the OP did, was batch sparge, using a bag as his filter method.
Not that there is anything wrong with that,
but it's not technically the same as BIAB.

There was a video posted a while back, (and I can't find it now)
that showed an Austrailian gentleman in his greenhouse using the BIAB
method. One pot, one bag, one burner.

I've done the two pot version. Mash in one pot with a 1.5 qt/lb ratio for 60 min. Then sparge in the brew pot for 20 min. Throw the two together and boil. I just make sure that conversion is complete with Iodine and make sure I stir both well at the beginning and end.
I also let the bag sit in a big sieve in a big mixing bowl while my kettle comes to a boil. That way I don't have to hold a wet bag of grain over a hot kettle for fifteen minutes to get every drop.

I've got a 48 qt cooler/mash tun so I can make big beers.