Nottingham yeast - hydrate or not ?

The packet says hydrate for 15 minutes before pitching, many folks on here support adding dry yeast straight to surface of wort. Confusing.

The fact that huge numbers of people either pitch rehydrated yeast or pitch straight from the pouch indicates it probably doesn't make much difference.

grimstuff said:

The fact that huge numbers of people either pitch rehydrated yeast or pitch straight from the pouch indicates it probably doesn't make much difference.

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Agreed. After reading hundreds of posts on the topic, and experimenting with both methods myself, my conclusion: It doesn't really matter.

Others may have different beliefs/experience, so maybe they'll chime in.

Not hydrating dry yeast causes loss of some of the yeast. If you're brewing a lower gravity batch, it probably won't matter much. But I rehydrate to make sure I have all the yeast I intended to have.

It's a pretty no-brain method to use the mr. malty yeast calc and decide for yourself. If the recipe calls for like .6 dry yeast packs, dump the thing dry into the fermenter. If it calls for .9 packs, maybe it's a good idea to rehydrate before you pitch, in order to get the most out of your $3.

My $.02.

To maximize your cell count and minimize stress/shock of the yeast, it is best to rehydrate dry yeast before pitching. This is an undisputed fact.

If you just want to make beer and don't have a very high OG, go ahead and just sprinkle the packet into your wort. It will work, but is not the optimal practice.

g-star said:

To maximize your cell count and minimize stress/shock of the yeast, it is best to rehydrate dry yeast before pitching. This is an undisputed fact.

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Not that I'm disagreeing, I know there's all kinds of science behind it, but if you're just going to state an "undisputed fact" instead of your personal experience comparing/contrasting the two methods, it would help to post a source so the OP can have an "undisputed answer".

Do a quick search on this forum and you'll find a bit of dispute to your "undisputed fact".

I don't think many really argue with the science behind it, but in practice it's pretty common for many to not really notice a difference.

The manufacturers say either is fine.

For rehydrating, Fermentis says to use 2x the weight of water to the amount of yeast, stir and let go 15-30 min.

For sprinkling on the wort, they say to sprinkle over the surface of the wort slowly to prevent clumps. Let sit for a few minutes and then aerate.

My rule of thumb is for up to 1.050 SG, use one packet, over that use 2 or more. I've sprinkled as directed, I've aerated prior to sprinkling, and only rehydrated a lager I did recently. Never had issues, and it's not something you really need to worry about it.

BYO or Zymurgy did a study on this and IIRC the pro tasters couldn't tell the difference as a whole between rehydrated and sprinkled.

A couple of years ago a bad batch of dry yeast was released that was defective. If I had rehydrated it beforehand it would have been obvious. I always rehydrate just to be sure.

My advice is if its lower then 1.055 then just dump the pack in with the wort. Higher then that rehydrate. Only reason i'd skip the rehydrating is the need to sanitize what cup/bowl/jar of whatever it is your rehydrating in and then the very small chance that if ur using tap water, something could be in the water. Again its a very small chance, but its not like ur cutting much of a corner by just adding it dry to the wort since we've seen x-amount of brewers skip that step and still end up with great brew.

And then of course just RDWHAHB

thanks, everybody, so if we choose to hydrate first, adding a small amount of yeast nutrient and brewing sugar - OR - a little diluted mash, would get the yeast into pro-active mode, me thinks....

isnt putting the dry yeast into the fermenter rehydrating it?????????

Dougie63 said:

isnt putting the dry yeast into the fermenter rehydrating it?????????

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Rehydration in water before hitting the acidic/hyperosmotic wort helps improve the yeast health. As one poster put it, you can find lots of posts arguing that it doesn't matter. Then again you can find lots of posts that swear that one smack pack is plenty of yeast for a higher gravity beer. Like a couple others have said, if it's a lower gravity wort, then losing a few yeast won't make a difference. But if you need a whole pack's worth, I would rehydrate.

iaefebs said:

A couple of years ago a bad batch of dry yeast was released that was defective. If I had rehydrated it beforehand it would have been obvious. I always rehydrate just to be sure.

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How can you tell from rehydrating? Unless you're also proofing.

White and Zainasheff, in their book "Yeast", state that failure to properly rehydrate results in about a 50% cell loss. If I'm doing a smaller beer, I'll take that loss. If not, I'll rehydrate.

ChessRockwell said:

Not that I'm disagreeing, I know there's all kinds of science behind it, but if you're just going to state an "undisputed fact" instead of your personal experience comparing/contrasting the two methods, it would help to post a source so the OP can have an "undisputed answer".

Do a quick search on this forum and you'll find a bit of dispute to your "undisputed fact".

I don't think many really argue with the science behind it, but in practice it's pretty common for many to not really notice a difference.

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The people who dispute it go are the ones who conclude that it is an OK practice just b/c they did it, and beer was made. Again, I never said it wouldn't work, only that it is not optimal. There is sound scientific reasoning behind this.

Since you asked, here's just one of many sources

We have tried doing both with the same wort in different carboys. OG of 1.062. One hydrated and one sprinkled. No difference that we could see or taste. FG was the same. Taste and mouth, no one could tell the difference. I would think that the only factor would be how quickly the yeast becomes active by minutes or seconds. It would seem to me that if you sprinkle, you are only delaying the hydration anyway. So if you hydrate for 30 minutes, then add or sprinkle, you may be delaying only 30 minutes but as some yeast is hydrated immediately when sprinkled, I would assume that the delay is actually minimal. Both produced very active fermentation. We no longer hydrate or do secondaries as we think they only add a chance for infection and do not effect the final brew.

That being said, we do not use dry yeast for lagers but only for ales.

Another point, why not use only 1/10 of a packet of yeast, hydrate in boiled cooled water 30 mins then make additions of wort diluted down to 1.015 OG doubling the volume each time, I reckon in 2 days we would have 2 sachet's worth.

iaefebs said:

A couple of years ago a bad batch of dry yeast was released that was defective. If I had rehydrated it beforehand it would have been obvious. I always rehydrate just to be sure.

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Rehydrating wouldnt have told you anything, whether the yeast were dead or not they would have absorbed the liquid and looked identical.

I add the packet of yeast slowly,evenly,and gently.Than I paddle stir
that M@#$%$f@%^er like Jaws was chasing me in a canoe!

my own experience has been better start off when my dry yeasts has been hydrated, though i use a starter and add oxygen to wort after pitching and have experienced start up within minutes if the wort isnt too chilly...otherwise theres a lag time of 30 -45 minutes.
GD

g-star said:

To maximize your cell count and minimize stress/shock of the yeast, it is best to rehydrate dry yeast before pitching. This is an undisputed fact.

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really? i thought tons of experienced brewers dispute it. this thread is proof. me, i just pitch dry, and always have

FuzzeWuzze said:

Rehydrating wouldnt have told you anything, whether the yeast were dead or not they would have absorbed the liquid and looked identical.

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I'll dispute that.

First, I pull the mfrs product sheet and follow the instructions. If you read the sheet on Notty, some things will shock you.

http://www.danstaryeast.com/sites/default/files/nottingham_datasheet.pdf

When I follow the instructions, the viability of the yeast is evident by the foam layer that forms in the specified time. It doesn't just appear as wet yeast in water.

No where does Danstar recommend dumping the dry yeast into the wort.

Fermentis OTOH gives you the option, in the case of US-05 & others of rehydrating into a paste or dumping dry yeast into the wort.

Does it matter in the end? I don't know but I like to think that the mfr. knows what's best for it's product and I'm inclined to heed their instructions. I do know that there is far less lag with Notty when rehydrated as called for verses US-05 that is pitched dry into the fermentor.

This goofy bastard says its better to over pitch, so i vote hydrate!

Or not, quite frankly i think this is just one of those things where it doesn't quite make a difference for most beers of a lower gravity.

*** Warning - video added for humor, not to be taken seriously ***

FuzzeWuzze said:

Rehydrating wouldnt have told you anything, whether the yeast were dead or not they would have absorbed the liquid and looked identical.

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Wrong... the particular bad batch I mentioned did not absorb liquid at all. It looked like dry yeast floating in liquid. It was obvious to anyone that had ever rehydrated that something was different.

BOBTHEukBREWER said:

thanks, everybody, so if we choose to hydrate first, adding a small amount of yeast nutrient and brewing sugar - OR - a little diluted mash, would get the yeast into pro-active mode, me thinks....

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The package specifies NOT to rehydrate in wort. I don't understand why though, my logic mirrored yours. Either way I've only used it once. I rehydrated and it fermented a 1.06 wort down to 1.012 in 3 days. A little tart for claiming little to no esters. I fermented at 64.

how does the mfgs of notty know what the beer will ferment to? Mash temp determines that whatever whatever Ill keep sprinkling on top Ive been doing that all along with low grav beers and high gravity beers and I dont see how rehydrating is going to make a great tasting beer any better.

lumpher said:

really? i thought tons of experienced brewers dispute it. this thread is proof. me, i just pitch dry, and always have

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All this thread proves is that there is a lot of ignorance of brewing science out there.

Pitching dry can result in up to 50% reduction in possible viable cells due to excessive osmotic pressure from a high density sugar solution (wort) on the cell walls.

Again, it will work in most standard gravity worts, but it is not optimal and most often results in under-pitching and introduction of excessive dead yeast into your new beer. If that doesn't bother you, then by all means, keep pitching dry.

lumpher said:

really? i thought tons of experienced brewers dispute it. this thread is proof. me, i just pitch dry, and always have

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Tons of experienced brewers might dispute that it makes a difference in the finished product. I am not sure anyone is disputing that pitching into wort without rehydrating causes a loss of viable yeast cells.

g-star said:

All this thread proves is that there is a lot of ignorance of brewing science out there.

Pitching dry can result in up to 50% reduction in possible viable cells due to excessive osmotic pressure from a high density sugar solution (wort) on the cell walls.

Again, it will work in most standard gravity worts, but it is not optimal and most often results in under-pitching and introduction of excessive dead yeast into your new beer. If that doesn't bother you, then by all means, keep pitching dry.

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I like to think of it as killing off the weak 50%, i only want the most bad ass yeast cells to survive anyways to make my beer...i'm glad my beer kills the weak ones.:rockin:

(Not srs)

g-star said:

All this thread proves is that there is a lot of ignorance of brewing science out there.

Pitching dry can result in up to 50% reduction in possible viable cells due to excessive osmotic pressure from a high density sugar solution (wort) on the cell walls.

Again, it will work in most standard gravity worts, but it is not optimal and most often results in under-pitching and introduction of excessive dead yeast into your new beer. If that doesn't bother you, then by all means, keep pitching dry.

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you do know that yeast RAPIDLY multiply within a couple hours to 5-10 times what comes in the pouch and alot more than any "viable" yeast starter could ever put out, it would be far MORE better to air-e-ate to re-hy-drate and I seriously doubt and I dont care who or what the "experts" say that you would lose 50 percent of viable cells and not to mention there is "NO" I repeat "NO" difference in the quality and/or taste of the finished product.

Dougie63 said:

you do know that yeast RAPIDLY multiply within a couple hours to 5-10 times what comes in the pouch and alot more than any "viable" yeast starter could ever put out, it would be far MORE better to air-e-ate to re-hy-drate and I seriously doubt and I dont care who or what the "experts" say that you would lose 50 percent of viable cells and not to mention there is "NO" I repeat "NO" difference in the quality and/or taste of the finished product.

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Excellent. We will inform Dr. White of his errors, and pass your findings along to the Journal of Brewing Science.

g-star said:

Excellent. We will inform Dr. White of his errors, and pass your findings along to the Journal of Brewing Science.

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Does Dr White know anything about brewing beer?????????

Dougie63 said:

Does Dr White know anything about brewing beer?????????

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Um, yes.

Pilgarlic said:

Um, yes.

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ok please show us what if anything he has brewed, and please show us where the finished product has changed in flavor ect

Dougie63 said:

ok please show us what if anything he has brewed, and please show us where the finished product has changed in flavor ect

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Let's not. If you're interested in Chris White's career, you can find it. Enjoy.

oh well I and the rest of us will continue to "sprinkle" on dry and make great beer without adding a useless step to the process.

Chris White wrote Yeast with Jamil Zainasheff. Considering the book covers every aspect about how yeast affects wort I'd imagine he knows some stuff. And in reality if Nottingham comes with 300 billion yeast cells losing 50% of that you'd still be pitching higher than you would with a smack pack that has under 100 billion cells. All numbers and facts aside, who cares. If you're method is working for you and you like the results then do it. At the end of the day all that matters is that you're happy with your beer.

Dougie63 said:

ok please show us what if anything he has brewed, and please show us where the finished product has changed in flavor ect

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Just quit before you embarrass yourself any further.

oh, Im not embarrassed are you? if u can remember this post is a debate not a one sided scientific factoid