Orange Blossom Cyser

Hi all. I've been lurking for about 6 months now, and I decided it was time to register and post.

I have a Mr. Beer setup. I've bought a few cheap extras, such as a hydrometer and a bench capper, but don't really have the cash to invest in fancy equipment like carboys and secondary fermenters, especially since the nearest LHBS is 2 hours away. (Also, SWMBO doesn't exactly approve of the hobby.... yet.)

Anyway, I've been doing a lot of apfelweins and ciders due to their ease and low cost, and I thought I'd post about my most recent project:


Orange Blossom Cyser
2 gal Apple Juice from concentrate w/ added vit c
2 lbs Sue Bee Orange Honey
1 pk dry Lalvin EC-1118 (rehydrated)
pitched yeast @ 75 deg
Started: 2/23/13 @ 0100hrs
OG: 1.080 @ 75 deg F

Additions made after reading the JOAM thread:

@ T+21hrs
added ~15 raisins

@ T+36hrs
added zest from 1 small fresh picked navel orange

I live in California's Central Valley. My family owns orange groves; my house is in the midst of them. My plan is to let this brew ferment for a month or 2 (until the gravity readings show it's done), and add a syrup of sugar and homemade orange blossom water at bottling. My question is, do you guys think I should add it as priming sugar, or do it with K-sorb and back sweeten it. It would be my first still brew. Stovetop pasteurization isn't an option as I lack the large pot, so dry and sparkling or still and sweet are my only options.

Advice?

Btw: I know this may not "technically" be a cyser -- more of cider with added honey -- but I wanted it to be drinkable sooner. Once something's bottled, I'll be damned if I just can't keep my hands off it...

I'm sure you guys can sympathize...

If you want it carbonated beer/sparkling wine/champagne bottles are a must. Anything else and you'd get bottle bombs......

fatbloke said:

If you want it carbonated beer/sparkling wine/champagne bottles are a must. Anything else and you'd get bottle bombs......

Click to expand...

Yeah, I only bottle in empty Martinelli's sparkling cider bottles. I've made several batches of carbonated apfelweins/ciders with good success. I've never made a STILL one before. I'm asking for feedback on whether people think this recipe sounds better carbed or still.

spannerx said:

Yeah, I only bottle in empty Martinelli's sparkling cider bottles. I've made several batches of carbonated apfelweins/ciders with good success. I've never made a STILL one before. I'm asking for feedback on whether people think this recipe sounds better carbed or still.

Click to expand...

Completely up to you...if you've never done a still wine then go that route.

Inner10 said:

Completely up to you...if you've never done a still wine then go that route.

Click to expand...

You're right; this is a good opportunity for me to learn how to do a still wine. Thanks for the advice.

So if I'm going to do it still, what's the best additive to stop fermentation when the time comes? Is potassium sorbate enough, or should i use Campden tablets? Are there any significant differences between sodium campden and potassium campden?

Ken Schramm only uses K sorbate. That may have been different before, but he recommends letting it finish fermenting and then letting it sit on sorbate for about three days. Degass it and bottle. Just make sure of no CO2!

jmureiko said:

Ken Schramm only uses K sorbate. That may have been different before, but he recommends letting it finish fermenting and then letting it sit on sorbate for about three days. Degass it and bottle. Just make sure of no CO2!

Click to expand...

You need SO2 with the sorbate, they do a synergy thing. Personal choice as to whether you choose sodium vs potassium meta.

spannerx said:

So if I'm going to do it still, what's the best additive to stop fermentation when the time comes?

Click to expand...

Time. Letting it complete fermentation and clear on it's own.

spannerx said:

You're right; this is a good opportunity for me to learn how to do a still wine. Thanks for the advice.

So if I'm going to do it still, what's the best additive to stop fermentation when the time comes? Is potassium sorbate enough, or should i use Campden tablets? Are there any significant differences between sodium campden and potassium campden?

Click to expand...

You aren't going to stop the ferment so to speak, you are going to let it stop on it's own when it runs out of sugar, then add sorbate and campden so that it doesn't kick back up again.

In short you are going to wait until it's fermented dry, then wait until it's clear and degassed, then add campden and sorbate, then back sweeten, then wait a week or two to make sure it doesn't start to ferment...then bottle and enjoy.

If you are in a hurry I'm a big fan of Sparkolloid to clear it up...that stuff is like majic.

Thanks to everyone who has posted in this thread thus far.

Based on your collective advice, my plan right now is to let the cyser ferment until it has finished and cleared, then add potassium campden, wait a few days, and rack onto potassium sorbate. At which time I will also back sweeten with more orange blossom honey and some apple juice concentrate. I'll wait another couple days, then bottle.

So far as the orange blossom water, I'm going to pick about a third of a mason jar full of fresh blossoms, macerate them into a paste, and add a few oz of vodka to make an extract. I'll strain this and add a teaspoon or 2 to taste at bottling.

spannerx said:

Thanks to everyone who has posted in this thread thus far.

Based on your collective advice, my plan right now is to let the cyser ferment until it has finished and cleared, then add potassium campden, wait a few days, and rack onto potassium sorbate. At which time I will also back sweeten with more orange blossom honey and some apple juice concentrate. I'll wait another couple days, then bottle.

So far as the orange blossom water, I'm going to pick about a third of a mason jar full of fresh blossoms, macerate them into a paste, and add a few oz of vodka to make an extract. I'll strain this and add a teaspoon or 2 to taste at bottling.

Click to expand...

Don't rack onto sorbate it's a pain to dissolve. Take a sample of your wife with a thief, dissolve with a whisk in a bowl then add in.

I'd do the campden and sorbate at the same time. Then back sweeten, then wait to make sure it's stable.

Inner10 said:

Don't rack onto sorbate it's a pain to dissolve. Take a sample of your wife with a thief, dissolve with a whisk in a bowl then add in.

I'd do the campden and sorbate at the same time. Then back sweeten, then wait to make sure it's stable.

Click to expand...

Ok, will do. Thanks.

Here's an update, if anyone is interested:

My SG after 21 days in primary is 0.996 @ 80 deg F. According to Rooftop Brew's ABV calculator, that gives me an ABV of 11.1%.

I added k-sorbate and k-meta per instructions and racked to secondary.

Now to wait until the orange trees bloom so I can make my blossom tincture, back-sweeten, and bottle...

Bottled today.

I back-sweetened the batch with 1lb orange blossom honey, and added 6 tsp of my very fragrant homemade orange blossom tincture. Final ABV, by my calculations, is right around 10.5%.

Final yield was 8 x 750ml bottles, plus a few glasses that I drank.

Unfortunately, I think I may have left too much headspace in secondary and oxidized the batch. It was my first time using a secondary, and I didn't quite understand the importance of topping up. I get a nice honey taste up front, but the after taste is reminiscent of cardboard, which drowns out the orange blossom flavor. I'm really hoping it isn't oxidation, but lack of age, and maybe it will improve as it matures. I'll just have to wait and see...