rwagner23
Well-Known Member
Have you put in the order yet for this most recent round?
MD/DC grain
- Thread starter claphamsa
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OP
I did, and they just emailed me, letting me know that they could no longer do bulk prices for homebrewers. I pushed back... but they have never been even average at customer service. if nothing else im gonna have to delay a week.... I would need confirmation from every single person that they were still in despite a 40% price bump.
That blows goats! Guess the HB stores got together and put an end to this? I can get bulk grain cheaper at several LHBS's than they are now offering. Doesn't make sense unless there were complaints from the stores that they are losing business. Why else would they charge more for direct bulk than the LHBS would charge?
dcHokie
Well-Known Member
So are they requiring a business license to prove that buyers are lhbs or pro-brewers?
Getting my panties all bunched up here, but it sure seems discriminatory to charge a different bulk rate to homebrewers if we are meeting their basic ordering/shipping requirements.
rwagner23
Well-Known Member
Yea I hate to be that guy, but I'm going to back out. This makes little to no sense at all doing it this way. For me at least it doesn't considering logistics. I'm sorry.
Yeah, that sucks. Was just thinking this weekend how great it is that I don't have to visit those @$$holes at myLHBS save for a few rare trips for specialty grains, hops and yeast I don't have/didn't buy online with a bigger order. Was just going to post to see if people wanted to do a split on some specialty grains too. So glad I got more than I needed with the last two orders.
What homebrew shop has the best price for grain? I'm fine driving further to give my business to a good shop!!
I'm on the fence for my bag of MO. If a pallet can be filled, I'll keep it, but not worried if it doesn't happen.
Thanks for working on them Stefin, it'll be sad if this (and similar threads) get shutdown. No doubt this is the doing of the brew shops.
What homebrew shop has the best price for grain? I'm fine driving further to give my business to a good shop!!
I'm on the fence for my bag of MO. If a pallet can be filled, I'll keep it, but not worried if it doesn't happen.
Thanks for working on them Stefin, it'll be sad if this (and similar threads) get shutdown. No doubt this is the doing of the brew shops.
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so I spoke to them, they will only ship to a brewing related business. I would need a TIN, and pay taxes...im not ruling that out... but what a ****ing pain.
I cancelled the order at least until we get some clarification. Im going to PM everyone on the list, and let them know.
Personally I think its still worth it... but maybe not for people coming from places like Fredrick.
I cancelled the order at least until we get some clarification. Im going to PM everyone on the list, and let them know.
Personally I think its still worth it... but maybe not for people coming from places like Fredrick.
dcHokie
Well-Known Member
Wow, seems like a pretty hard line stance...it must be pressure from homebrew shops for them to turn away business.
Wonder if it might be worth it for us to reach out to 3Stars, Franklins, Choc City, the Atlas guys, etc. to see if we could work out some quid pro quo for receiving occasional grain deliveries?
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all money paypaled to me has been refunded!
OP
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please do! im still willing to do it... but its a 28% plus up (or so....)
Wow, that's a bummer. I haven't gotten into this group buy yet, but was going to soon, and have been following this awesome thread for about 2 months.
That's a 30-40% price hike. Yikes!
What quantity does it take to get bulk pricing? Or are they just not doing it at all, anymore?
I'm quite sure this group's quantities exceed many LHBS's.
Annapolis Home Brew (my local) sells sacks between $60 (Briess 2-Row) and $80 (Muntons MO).
So $45 to $62 (incl. $7 shipping) is still somewhat but not a real lot better.
What do they say about good things? They don't last.
That's a 30-40% price hike. Yikes!
What quantity does it take to get bulk pricing? Or are they just not doing it at all, anymore?
I'm quite sure this group's quantities exceed many LHBS's.
Annapolis Home Brew (my local) sells sacks between $60 (Briess 2-Row) and $80 (Muntons MO).
So $45 to $62 (incl. $7 shipping) is still somewhat but not a real lot better.
What do they say about good things? They don't last.
Is there a new price list to look so I can see the new prices and decide if I still want to continue with my order? Did they give a reason for this? Sounds kinda bogus to me especially since you had already submitted such a huge order and large orders in the past. This is a real kick in the nuts. I don't understand how a business can turn down that much money from this and other groups.
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I know that some at Maryland Homebrew were aware of (and not happy about) this group buy. I don't know however if they had anything to do with the change.
MaxOut
Well-Known Member
It was good while it lasted
Thanks claphamsa!
Let us know what you come up with.
Thanks claphamsa!
Let us know what you come up with.
Lgaddy44
Well-Known Member
This is a serious buzz kill. Would've been nice to get a heads up on their policy change, so we could've made one last HUGE order.Damn the man, I say, damn the man.
this is uncool all around. it especially blows that they changed the price after the order was already in - you'd think they'd at least honor that order and say "going forward, here's the new price list".
i certainly hope this wasn't because of a LHBS getting wind of our buy and running interference. boy would they feel the wrath...
i certainly hope this wasn't because of a LHBS getting wind of our buy and running interference. boy would they feel the wrath...
Their bulk grain pricing is fairly decent I think?
I think MyLHBS in 7 corners is ok too as far as homebrew shops go...
MyLHBS - 2 row $50, MO $68, Simpsons Golden Promise $75, Weyerman pills $63-$69, Belgian Pils, $74
Flying Barrel - 2 row $55, Pils/MO $69
MDHB - Hugh Baird Pal $52, BM Pils $64, others at undisclosed price on website
After shipping the differences are definitely diminished depending on which HBS is closest to you
rwagner23
Well-Known Member
Just came back from Flying Barrel. The prices listed above are correct, plus German Pils is $69.
The new owner (well he was suppose to be the new owner tomorrow) said that his supplier raised their prices too and he was trying to hold off on doing the same with his prices till as long as possible.
The new owner (well he was suppose to be the new owner tomorrow) said that his supplier raised their prices too and he was trying to hold off on doing the same with his prices till as long as possible.
Our current Central Virginia group buy (42 bags) is also effected by this crap. I had to back out of that buy because of this change.
I don't think Country Malt realizes that this is going to hurt their business significantly. We who used to pay $25 + shipping for a 50 lb sack of 2-row are not going to continue to use the same quantity of 2-row if we have to pay $50-65 + tax to buy it from our LHBS. I will probably brew 20-30% less because of this since I have a fixed budget for homebrew expenses.
It sounds like local brew clubs could potential set themselves up as a distributor though, by establishing an account with Country Malt and provided a TIN for tax purposes. Country malt is a fool if they are going to turn down business of this volume...$10,000 a day + at least from homebrewer group buys across the east coast.
I don't think Country Malt realizes that this is going to hurt their business significantly. We who used to pay $25 + shipping for a 50 lb sack of 2-row are not going to continue to use the same quantity of 2-row if we have to pay $50-65 + tax to buy it from our LHBS. I will probably brew 20-30% less because of this since I have a fixed budget for homebrew expenses.
It sounds like local brew clubs could potential set themselves up as a distributor though, by establishing an account with Country Malt and provided a TIN for tax purposes. Country malt is a fool if they are going to turn down business of this volume...$10,000 a day + at least from homebrewer group buys across the east coast.
dcHokie
Well-Known Member
We could conceivably form a non-incorporated Co-Op. There is a unique localized need, the ability to purchase in bulk and the intent to service members rather than profit.
I believe that coops don't pay taxes, but that individual members would have to pay federal taxes if the organization profits. If we operated as a non-profit entity with some nominal membership fee going towards shipping, etc. I think we would avoid the tax implications. Any lawyers or CPAs on this thread??
Sounds like a great idea.
I'm not a lawyer or CPA.
Why would there be tax on (raw/malted) grains?
I'm not a lawyer or CPA.
Why would there be tax on (raw/malted) grains?
dcHokie
Well-Known Member
What I mentioned relates to income tax not sales tax. As I understand it, cooperatives don't pay federal income tax as an organization, rather their dues paying members pay income tax on their share of the organization's profits returned to them in the form of dividends. No profits should mean no taxes.
Yes, that makes sense. I correlated it with this:
So the TIN# will be one for the coop, to prove whatever Country Malt deems necessary to be able to sell at reduced wholesale prices, and not home brewers rates. Yes?
So the TIN# will be one for the coop, to prove whatever Country Malt deems necessary to be able to sell at reduced wholesale prices, and not home brewers rates. Yes?
dcHokie
Well-Known Member
That is my understanding
Yes it is very uncool. I've had run-ins like that with my business, where vendors raised prices overnight without warning. Or setting really high minimum order quantities, crowding out nano businesses.
Well, someone got to them. And that someone must have had a big hand for Country Malt to change their policies "overnight."
Using the word "policy", will guarantee to get people pissed off. And the lower you are on the pole, the wetter you get.
OP
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this is nationwide, they are just ****ing us all.... so its not just DC area....
OP
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theoretically we could infact incorporate as a coop, but that would require a lawyer. and then someone would have to file taxes.... (even to show its 0)
Agree with stefin...not sure what spurred it but what is more important is how do we respond? There has got to be a way to get them to do this again. Perhaps they were getting crap from the states for sales tax or the feds?
rwagner23
Well-Known Member
Any possibility that the drought last year is a reason?
mtbiker278
Well-Known Member
At least for the shipping it'll be $1.50 per bag for 30+ bags. Although some of the prices are kind of ridiculous, particularly for the Briess grains. Are there any other distributors of grains and such, or is that it?
I'm pricing out my order with the $1.50 shipping, but I'll likely swap out any briess grains.
What about this company? http://www.brewerssupplygroup.com/
I'm pricing out my order with the $1.50 shipping, but I'll likely swap out any briess grains.
What about this company? http://www.brewerssupplygroup.com/
Its a 1.50 off per bag on orders 30 plus not a 1.50 for shipping per bag. They are charging whatever they get charged for shipping.
dcHokie
Well-Known Member
No, that is the infuriating thing about this situation. They are still offering the same original bulk rates, just not to us.
^^^ THIS! So they are being gracious and giving homebrewer group buys ~3% off. GEE THANKS COUNTRY MALT, HOW GENEROUS!!
The only savings now by doing a group buy is on shipping which is much cheaper per bag on a pallet than individually.
This is messed up. Whatever their reason, it sucks that they didn't follow through for this latest order.
Is this for all of CMG or do you think only for the Champlain region? If it's only Champlain, is there a possibility of going through Hickory?
If it comes down to it, I'm in for starting a coop. I just don't know any lawyers or accountants around here.
Is this for all of CMG or do you think only for the Champlain region? If it's only Champlain, is there a possibility of going through Hickory?
If it comes down to it, I'm in for starting a coop. I just don't know any lawyers or accountants around here.
At least one good thing I can say is that I go to Hickory, NC once or twice every summer for work....will country malt sell to a customer at the homebrewer catalog prices for pickup at a distribution center? That would be pretty sweet.
mtbiker278
Well-Known Member
Ahh read that wrong.... yeah $1.50 off per bag is pretty lame discount.
I still think there prices are competitive even with the changes (as long as your not hours from the pickup point). I can still get a bag for 50 - 55 dollars shipped compared to my next option of 65 plus. Shipping is the killer for me in any place I look.
If there was a better option I would be for it as this is a direct money squeeze against home brewers. However, void of any other option its still the best option IMO.
If there was a better option I would be for it as this is a direct money squeeze against home brewers. However, void of any other option its still the best option IMO.
well, the question is: WHY did this change happen in the first place? if the LHBS put pressure on the distributor, saying "if you don't stop selling to the clubs we'll stop buying from you" (and the shops are bigger buyers than the clubs), then forming a coop won't change much - the LHBS will just get the distributor to only sell to us at the new "homebrewers" price. it would be pretty easy to tell that our coop isn't a shop or a brewery (i.e. the only two types of business they seem willing to sell wholesale to).
btw, this is pure speculation on my part - we have no proof that any shop is behind this recent change.
it's not the shipping that appears to be the problem, it's the selling (or more specifically the pricing). they don't want to see direct to us... for whatever reason. so my unfounded guess is that they don't want you picking up either.
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