Propane Safety and Tips on Basic Brewing Podcast.

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Revvy

Post Hoc Ergo Propter Hoc
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This week's Basic Brewing Podcast is all about using propane in our brewing.

January 8, 2009 - Propane and Propane Accessory Safety
Bruce Swiecicki, senior technical advisor for the National Propane Gas Association, joins us to answer your questions about propane safety and getting the most out of your propane burner setup.

Email bruce Home - National Propane Gas Association

Click to listen in Mp-3

Although the guest speaks the "party line" from the propane industry about using it in our garages and such, he does offer some good tips about doing things wisely and getting the most bang for the buck for our beer.


He answers email questions from listeners including one that may be from one of our own members....Firebrewer!!!! :mug:

And he gives his email address so brewer's who have specific questions not covered can ask him directly.

So whether or not you agree with the party line, or not, this is a good podcast to listen to.

(Edwort said if I made this thread he'd sticky it.)
 
Now we just need people to post the questions and responses in this thread.
 
I gotta say, that guy was a good sport about answering questions. He took on a lot of topics that he easily could have passed on since he was there in the capacity from the NPGA
 
I gotta say, that guy was a good sport about answering questions. He took on a lot of topics that he easily could have passed on since he was there in the capacity from the NPGA

Yeah, the only thing was it was clear that the didn't even know that his product was used in homebrewing...Let alone the beermaking process...I wonder if the turkey fryer manufacturers know we use their products as well.
 
Whoa now wait a minute. You mean, people use turkey fryers for something OTHER than making beer? That's weird. I don't believe it.

I'm sure the turkey fryer companies know what we use em for. Look at the "Frequently Bought Together" and "Customers Who Bought This Item Also Bought" sections for the Bayou Classic on Amazon.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
Yeah, the only thing was it was clear that the didn't even know that his product was used in homebrewing...Let alone the beermaking process...I wonder if the turkey fryer manufacturers know we use their products as well.

Sounds like we need to send him some homebrew so he can truly appreciate what we do.
 
Sigafoos had a question asked and answered on this show and mine was the one from Phoenix, AZ about tank freeze.

WOW...so you, sig, and firebrewer!!!


:mug:


I got pmmed yesterday by someone listening to the archives and hearing my email about betterbottle cleaning and mentioning the innauguration of "Brewspace" on here.. And of course Kai getting interviewed.

HBT REPRESENTS!!!! :rockin:
 
WOW...so you, sig, and firebrewer!!!


:mug:


I got pmmed yesterday by someone listening to the archives and hearing my email about betterbottle cleaning and mentioning the innauguration of "Brewspace" on here.. And of course Kai getting interviewed.

HBT REPRESENTS!!!! :rockin:


Ken and Vickie are also on our site:
October 30, 2008 - Brewing Against the Grain
We talk to home brewers Vickie Watson and Ken Dollar from Mississippi, where home brewing is illegal.

I met them briefly at the GABF.
 
Here is what I sent James about the show because I found the "official" stance misleading. 4 burners on my range inside provides more BTUs (and uses more oxygen) than my outdoor cooker and my range is deemed "safe":

"Unfortunately Bruce has to wear this official Propane Police hat when he's answering your questions, and his although his answers are correct to the letter of the law, the common sense and real world answers may be different. Kinda like the brewing 100 gallons of beer per person law, some guys I know are breaking that law before Easter (Andy?). Or even the "only 2-1# propane bottles in one house" law.

Some propane math: 1 cubic foot (ft3) of propane requires 23.5 ft3 of air to properly burn. So lets exaggerate and say you have to use 35,000 BTUs to make a batch of beer (cuz you're not running that 35K burner full blast the whole time), you're going to need 329 ft3 of air to do so. That's a chunk about the size of a VW Bug. There's 10 times that volume in a 2-car garage. You might just pull it off in a sealed garage if the carbon monoxide (CO) didn't get you first! (don't try this!!):eek:

But, a furnace (with a flue mind you, your burner has no flue) requires 1 SQUARE INCH of combustion air intake per 1000 BTU rating. So if your burner had a flue, you'd only need 35 in2 of opening to supply the combustion air (plus 35 more for flue dilution air) . This is an active system with air getting sucked in by the air that gets sucked out. Garages aren't like that, but opening the garage door 18" will give 100 times that area and might be safe, but I'd go half way if you don't have any cross ventilation available (another window or door open).

Can anyone legally recommend using a burner in the garage? NO. But, that being said, I do it all the time with an open window and the garage door up about 4" - with my CO detector showing ZERO the whole time (the same detector jumps to 20 if I back a car in, so I know it works).

Just make sure you have a CO detector (with a readout) and adjust your air mixture for blue tipped flames (yellow flames = CO=death).

The most dangerous thing about the whole adventure is having the propane tank and it's rubber hose in an enclosed space (with your house attached to it). I've recently had an overfilled (3.4# in a 2.5# mini tank - despite the overfill protection device) propane cylinder vent out through it's overpressure valve while running my BBQ. The ensuing fireball was neat looking, but being immediately adjacent to my house and my eyebrow(s), it was a little scary. It had been cold out since filling it, but the BBQ heated up the cold tank which increased the pressure and caused the purge. If a hose had melted, things could have been much worse."
 
Good letter Kilt...Like to see if James reads it...I have a feeling that this episode is going to spark a lot of controversy.

How many of you who currently brew in the garage are going to cease doing so?

I mean New Year's Eve day I went over to one of the Michigan Masher's house to walk him through AG and he had a very well vented garage. He had borrowed a neigbor's double burner rig, and we both very brewing and there was nary a problem.

So are people here who do, going to change their ways because of the party line?
 
There are other concerns beyond the CO emissions... like if you burn your house down for any reason, you are screwed.
 
How many of you who currently brew in the garage are going to cease doing so?

It all comes down to understanding the risks and doing the best you can to mitigate that risk to a level you individually are comfortable with. I brew in the garage most times (despite facing the elements during the brewcast!), but I'm comfortable with my failsafes (CO monitor, ventilation fans, etc) and my system.
 
I'm currently using a two burner camp stove that gets up over 100,000 BTU, but as per party line, it isn't certified for use in a dwelling.

Anyone consider installing a wok burner? Those can get up over 200,000 BTU and would have to be certified for use in kitchens, every Oriental restaurant has them.


Hummmm........
 
It is also against "regulations" to have a 20lb cylinder "indoors". So how will you feed your wok burner?
 
It is also against "regulations" to have a 20lb cylinder "indoors". So how will you feed your wok burner?

My 500lb "pig" in the yard is hard piped throughout the house. We checked on Natural gas when we bought the house and it was upwards of $20,000 for them to extend the pipeline to my house. We've since ditched heating with propane for a geothermal system.

Im is in teh sticks.

P1010106.JPG
 
Wow, there is a lot to be said about all this. I guess the point made about having the tank inside is the clincher for me...I'm gonna wait until its at least 40 degrees out side for my next brew!
 
I am using just a 5 gallon stainless steel stock pot for my brewing. My kitchen burner takes forever to get me to a boil! And i mean forever like 3 hours to bring 3 gal to a boil. I have one of those glass top kitchen burners. I happen to own a turkey fryer and thought I would use it's burner to get my homebrew going quicker. Well I hooked er up outside and started to bring my water to a boil (I had to have the gas setting pretty low to keep the flames from shooting up the sides of my brewpot as much as possible!) Well I was about 10 or 15 minutes in and about 120 degrees but there seemed to be alot of black smoke and fumes coming from the pot and underneath the burner little black soot was falling to the ground. I turned the burner off dumped out my water and inspected my pot the bottom was covered in a black soot! I washed the pot off in my sink and inevitably threw the rag away i used to clean it because it became so black from the flakey soot! All in all most all of it came off the bottom of my pot and we looked as good as new but made one hell of a mess! Now Im afraid to use the propane burner when through all the discussions on here seems the way to go! I can't find any other topics regarding anyone having this problem! I'm afraid that this was the bottom of my pan burning or scorching off. This seems strange though as it seems there are alot of people on here using some pretty powerful burners. Any help or ideas would be appreciated.
 
Sounds like the air/gas mix is off. You ether need to open the carb to allow more O2, close the carb or clean the burner so that the orifices are working properly and you get a good blue flame.
 
Thanks! Now I feel retarded I was in such a hurry to get brewing I didnt even notice I had an orange flame. I took the burner apart and blew compressed air through the venturi and there was a spider egg sack clogging my airflow. Works very well now thanks for the help
 
I'll definitely keep brewing in my garage in the winters... I've got a couple things going in my favor though: I've got a detached garage (if the absolute worst happened, I'd burn down the garage, not the house), and the garage is many years old and drafty as all get out. I don't even really need to crack open the garage door to ensure decent air flow.
 
Sounds like the air/gas mix is off. You ether need to open the carb to allow more O2, close the carb or clean the burner so that the orifices are working properly and you get a good blue flame.


That is exactly what happened, seems to me like these propane turkey friers are designed to operate wide open, however....the air shutter on most should be full open. Orang flames mean improper combustion which is bad.


Sent from my iPad using Home Brew
 
This week's Basic Brewing Podcast is all about using propane in our brewing.



Although the guest speaks the "party line" from the propane industry about using it in our garages and such, he does offer some good tips about doing things wisely and getting the most bang for the buck for our beer.


He answers email questions from listeners including one that may be from one of our own members....Firebrewer!!!! :mug:

And he gives his email address so brewer's who have specific questions not covered can ask him directly.

So whether or not you agree with the party line, or not, this is a good podcast to listen to.

(Edwort said if I made this thread he'd sticky it.)

LINK to MP3 broken
 
Hi,
Propane has the lowest flammability rating of any alternative fuel. Propane leaks are easy to detect due to the strong pungent smell that imitates the scent of rotten eggs. Propane will not contaminate water or soil.
 

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