Nugget Nectar Clone

I had Troegs Nugget Nectar last night and am hooked. I have experimented several IIPAs/IPAs with my own recipe, and after some tweaking of others clones recipes of it, heres what I came up with. I love the fruity and sweetness of the Hopslams and Nugget Nectar. Always gotten great advice from the HBT community, so please let me know your thoughts... if I am way off, something looks wrong, etc.:

90 Min Boil
5 Gal Batch
OG - 1.077
FG - 1.018
IBU = 86

10 Lbs Breiss Pilsner Light Extract
2.5 Lbs Vienna Malt
2.5 Lbs Munich 10L Malt
1 oz Nugget - 90 min
1 oz Simcoe - 45 min
1 oz Warrior - 30 min
1 oz Tomahawk - Hop Back (Technique Below)
1 oz Palisade - Hop Back (Technique Below)
1 oz Palisade - Dry Hop 14 days
1 oz Simcoe - Dry Hop 14 days
Wyeast 1056 or Danstar Nottingham

Steep grains at 152 for 30 min in 3 Gal. Add LME and water to bring to 4 Gal pre boil. Follow hop schedule for 90 minutes. Pitch yeast at 70 Deg and add approx 2.5 water to bring total volume to 5 Gal..., primary for 10 days, add both ounces of hops for Dry hop 14 days.

HOP BACK (read this somewhere): Add hops to french press coffee maker. Add boiled wort to the press and let the hops steep for approx 60 min. Let wort cool to room temperature and add to primary with yeast/rest of wort.

Couple of questions:
Which yeast and why?
Want to get the most out of the hops and see this as a poor mans hop back. Would this be beneficial over just adding them at the end of the boil?
Which part of this is giving that fruity/sweet profile I get out of Hopslam and Troegs? Most of my IPAs come out dry.
What tweaks would you make?

FWIW the Hopslam bottle says its brewed with Honey.

Not helpful to your question, but sort of related:
Just last night I had a Hopslam and a Nugget Nectar. I found the Hopslam to be strangely dry and sweet (tasted the honey) at the same time. It was very good, but no where near top of my list. I have been a huge fan of NN, and enjoyed last nights, but it has moved down a bit in my ranking. It didn't have the appeal to me of say a Hop Rod Rye.

How did you come up with 1.077 OG, are you expecting no conversion out of the grains? You also may want to save some of the LME for a late add to get more utilization out of your hops.
According to the Troegs website, the hopback hops are just whole hop Nuggets, the dry hops are Nugget and Warrior. Also, aving just trying to clone this a few months ago, I think you need more flavor hops (15-0mins).
An american ale yeast like Wyeast 1056, WLP001, or Safale S-05 should work well.

dcp27 said:

How did you come up with 1.077 OG, are you expecting no conversion out of the grains? You also may want to save some of the LME for a late add to get more utilization out of your hops.
According to the Troegs website, the hopback hops are just whole hop Nuggets, the dry hops are Nugget and Warrior. Also, aving just trying to clone this a few months ago, I think you need more flavor hops (15-0mins).
An american ale yeast like Wyeast 1056, WLP001, or Safale S-05 should work well.

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I was thinking after looking around at WLP023. Regarding the 1.077, I have it in Beersmith, and it didnt seem to add much to the OG (say from 1.074 to1.077 after the 5lbs of malt)...maybe I am missing something here.

What technique would you suggest in the late addition of the LME and how does that utilize more of the hops?

Most late addition extracts are done within the last 15minutes. The temperatures are high enough that it barely needs to be in the boil to sanitize it. Hop utilization is based largely on time and OG. The higher the OG, the less utilization out of the hops, so the later you add, the less hops you need to use. There's a bit of math to it, so I won't get into it, but if you want to see the formulas check out: http://www.grimmysbeer.com

I've never used beersmith so I'm not sure why it'd only add that much, but I'd guess its because munich and vienna need to be mashed. Maybe I'm wrong, but steeping at 152F should be close enough to mashing that I'd think you'd get more than 20% conversion.

If you think the fruity flavor in there is beyond the citrus notes of the hops than go for it on the WLP023.

dcp27 said:

Most late addition extracts are done within the last 15minutes. The temperatures are high enough that it barely needs to be in the boil to sanitize it. Hop utilization is based largely on time and OG. The higher the OG, the less utilization out of the hops, so the later you add, the less hops you need to use. There's a bit of math to it, so I won't get into it, but if you want to see the formulas check out: http://www.grimmysbeer.com

I've never used beersmith so I'm not sure why it'd only add that much, but I'd guess its because munich and vienna need to be mashed. Maybe I'm wrong, but steeping at 152F should be close enough to mashing that I'd think you'd get more than 20% conversion.

If you think the fruity flavor in there is beyond the citrus notes of the hops than go for it on the WLP023.

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Appreciate the note. When you say 20% conversion, what would you expect from the 5 Lbs of grain with that schedule to affect the OG? Is it 20% of the weight, then converted to a similar LME? Not good with grains as you can tell... was hoping to impart some color, a little flavor and head rention.

so this may be more than what you're asking for but here it goes. 80% of grain is soluble in the wort (hence mid 30s ppg versus mid 40s ppg of DME). On top of that, the average mash extraction efficiency is 80%, so around 65% total. So 1lb of grain is approximately equal to 0.65lbs of DME or 0.8lbs of LME (LME is 20% water). Therefore 5lbs grain x 80% efficiency x 35ppg / 5 gallons = 1.028 OG.

In short, under normal mash conditions, I'd expect 5lbs to add about 25 points to a 5gal batch. In your case, probably closer to 20 points. Steeping under those conditions will certainly give you the color and flavor you are looking for even if it doesn't add much fermentables. The hops and LME will cover your head retention.

Edit: Oh, and if you haven't already done so, I suggest reading this: http://www.howtobrew.com/section2/index.html

What would you guys say here from experience:

Wyeats 1272 or WLP023 for this kind of beer

troutab81 said:

What would you guys say here from experience:

Wyeats 1272 or WLP023 for this kind of beer

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Here's an updated recipe if anyone cares

Brew Type: Partial Mash
Style: Imperial IPA Brewer:
Batch Size: 5.00 gal Assistant Brewer:
Boil Volume: 4.08 gal Boil Time: 60 min
Brewhouse Efficiency: 65.0 % Equipment: Brew Pot (5 Gallon)
Actual Efficiency: 0.0
Taste Rating (50 possible points): 35.0

Ingredients Amount Item Type % or IBU
6.00 lb Pilsner Liquid Extract (3.5 SRM) Extract 50.0 %
2.00 lb Pilsner Liquid Extract (3.5 SRM) Extract 16.7 % - LATE ADDITION
2.00 lb Munich Malt - 10L (10.0 SRM) Grain 16.7 %
2.00 lb Vienna Malt (3.5 SRM) Grain 16.7 %
1.00 oz Nugget [13.00%] (60 min) Hops 35.6 IBU
1.00 oz Simcoe [13.00%] (30 min) Hops 27.4 IBU
1.00 oz Simcoe [13.00%] (15 min) Hops 17.7 IBU
1.00 oz Columbus (Tomahawk) [14.00%] (10 min) Hops 13.9 IBU
1.00 oz Progress [6.30%] (5 min) Hops 3.4 IBU
1.00 oz Nugget [13.00%] (Dry Hop 14 days) Hops -
1.00 oz Palisade [8.00%] (0 min) (Aroma Hop-Steep) Hops -
1.00 oz Warrior [15.00%] (Dry Hop 14 days) Hops -
1 Pkgs Burton Ale (White Labs #WLP023) Yeast-Ale

Beer Profile Estimated Original Gravity: 1.076 SG (1.075-1.095 SG) Measured Original Gravity: 1.010 SG
Estimated Final Gravity: 1.020 SG (1.012-1.020 SG) Measured Final Gravity: 1.005 SG
Estimated Color: 7.7 SRM (8.0-15.0 SRM) Color [Color]
Bitterness: 97.9 IBU (60.0-110.0 IBU) Alpha Acid Units: 7.8 AAU
Estimated Alcohol by Volume: 7.3 % (7.5-10.0 %) Actual Alcohol by Volume: 0.6 %
Actual Calories: 43 cal/pint


Mash Profile Name: My Mash Mash Tun Weight: 5.00 lb
Mash Grain Weight: 4.00 lb Mash PH: 5.4 PH
Grain Temperature: 72.0 F Sparge Temperature: 168.0 F
Sparge Water: 4.81 gal Adjust Temp for Equipment: FALSE

did you end up brewing it?

dcp27 said:

did you end up brewing it?

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Sadly no. My wife has been clamoring for me to make something other than hoppy beers, so I went with a Brown ale this time.

Rest assured, next one will be this and wil report back on the findings!

Would still love to here what people think about ther recipe..

I think it should come out pretty close. Where'd the progress hops come from though?

dcp27 said:

I think it should come out pretty close. Where'd the progress hops come from though?

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Just a gut feeling :cross:

I am brewing today so will let everyone know how it rolls.

Tweaked recipe due to availability:

Ingredients Amount Item Type % or IBU
6.00 lb Pilsner Liquid Extract (3.5 SRM) Extract 50.0 %
2.00 lb Pilsner Liquid Extract (3.5 SRM) Extract 16.7 % (late addition)
2.00 lb Munich Malt - 10L (10.0 SRM) Grain 16.7 %
2.00 lb Vienna Malt (3.5 SRM) Grain 16.7 %
1.00 oz Nugget [13.00%] (60 min) Hops 35.6 IBU
1.00 oz Simcoe [13.00%] (30 min) Hops 27.4 IBU
1.00 oz Simcoe [13.00%] (15 min) Hops 17.7 IBU
1.00 oz Columbus (Tomahawk) [14.00%] (10 min) Hops 13.9 IBU
1.00 oz Goldings, East Kent [5.00%] (5 min) (Aroma Hop-Steep) Hops -
1.00 oz Nugget [13.00%] (Dry Hop 14 days) Hops -
1.00 oz Palisade [8.00%] (0 min) (Aroma Hop-Steep) Hops -
1.00 oz Warrior [15.00%] (Dry Hop 14 days) Hops -
1 Pkgs London Ale III (Wyeast Labs #1318) Yeast-Ale

Good healthy fermentation still rocking, hop aroma from the blow off tube is amazing. Was up around 70 for a day, so hopefully I will get the ester production I am looking for (just a lil),

Racked to secondary today to dry hop and clear. Color was fantastic, FG was 1 point above, and the taste was fantastic...

definitely keep the updates coming. my retry is getting put off for awhile, so it'll be good to hear how this turns out before then

So how did it turn out? Should have kegged or bottled by now, right?

dcp27 said:

definitely keep the updates coming. my retry is getting put off for awhile, so it'll be good to hear how this turns out before then

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Kegged this morning, got it down to 1.017. Took a sample and it tasted pretty darn good if I say so myself. Big hop flavor upfront with a little fruit aftertaste. Going to let it carb for a while... I'm supposed to save this for a bachelor party, but I am sure I will take a sample and report back here in a week or so.

If I can locate some Troegs NN, I will do a side by side with pics.

Waiting in anticipation.....

troutab81 said:

Kegged this morning, got it down to 1.017. Took a sample and it tasted pretty darn good if I say so myself. Big hop flavor upfront with a little fruit aftertaste. Going to let it carb for a while... I'm supposed to save this for a bachelor party, but I am sure I will take a sample and report back here in a week or so.

If I can locate some Troegs NN, I will do a side by side with pics.

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If you can't get any let me know I live 10 min from the brewery. It'll give me an excuse to pick up a case.

reddskinnfan said:

Waiting in anticipation.....

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Me too

I will be waiting until at least Friday to check it out. I will report back and will get a side by side with as detailed notes as my non BJCP butt will allow.

Appreciate the offer on the Troegs, but I can locate some..

Thought I might chime in here. I brewed up an extract batch of this but with a different recipe. I tried to stick to the ingredients they mention here: http://www.troegs.com/our_brews/nugget_nectar.aspx. I also looked around the web for other clone recipes but found a LOT of disagreement so mostly just winged it in the end. I also made some simplifications to keep cost down. Here's the final recipe I came up with: Nugget Nectar clone Hopville Recipe Calculator PDF

It's in the secondary right now with the Nugget hops. I'm going to bottle this weekend. I tasted the hydrometer sample last weekend and it was pretty damn tasty if I could say so myself. I am also interested in doing the side by side once this is done...preferably with at least 3 friends in sort of a blind taste test kind of thing. I'll post back with comments when that happens. I try to keep detailed logs of all my brews on my blog...if you're interested in my full writeup of this one check out http://neomantra.org/?page_id=234

neomantra said:

Thought I might chime in here. I brewed up an extract batch of this but with a different recipe. I tried to stick to the ingredients they mention here: http://www.troegs.com/our_brews/nugget_nectar.aspx. I also looked around the web for other clone recipes but found a LOT of disagreement so mostly just winged it in the end. I also made some simplifications to keep cost down. Here's the final recipe I came up with: Nugget Nectar clone Hopville Recipe Calculator PDF

It's in the secondary right now with the Nugget hops. I'm going to bottle this weekend. I tasted the hydrometer sample last weekend and it was pretty damn tasty if I could say so myself. I am also interested in doing the side by side once this is done...preferably with at least 3 friends in sort of a blind taste test kind of thing. I'll post back with comments when that happens. I try to keep detailed logs of all my brews on my blog...if you're interested in my full writeup of this one check out http://neomantra.org/?page_id=234

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I think your recipe looks great, but you are missing the warrior, tomahawk, and palisade hops mentioned on the website. The ABV listed on their website is 7.4, and I think yours looks to be about 6.5.

Although, if you say it tastes great can't complain with that !

I picked up my NN and will be doing a side by side here very soon and will report back.... I take back my Friday ETA from before...once I got the NN I couldnt wait and the HBT members deserve nothing less!

Alright, here is my unofficial review:

Color: A little lighter
Aroma: Close enough to be hard to distinguish
Bitterness: Spot on
Flavor: Not AS sweet

Overall, the color (see pic) was a little lighter, and not Amber as they have it. There was chill haze, and hey, it has only been in the keg for 4-5 days or so.. so I assume it will clear up.

The aroma was fantastic and pretty much spot on. My IBU calc was at 94, and the website listed it as 93ish... I think the bittrness level is exactly as the NN.

The NN had a LITTLE more fruity ester flavor than mine. Going back and forth between the two, it became indistinguishable. Overall, the flavor was just a little off...and when I say off...not by much. Mine had a little bit more Malt character where the NN accentuated the fruit profile a little more. But once again, I dont think it was that much off at all.

A couple of tweaks and I think this is a real winner of a clone. I would recommend brewing and letting me know your thoughts!

Picture showing the color, NN on the left

troutab81 said:

Alright, here is my unofficial review:

Color: A little lighter
Aroma: Close enough to be hard to distinguish
Bitterness: Spot on
Flavor: Not AS sweet

Overall, the color (see pic) was a little lighter, and not Amber as they have it. There was chill haze, and hey, it has only been in the keg for 4-5 days or so.. so I assume it will clear up.

The aroma was fantastic and pretty much spot on. My IBU calc was at 94, and the website listed it as 93ish... I think the bittrness level is exactly as the NN.

The NN had a LITTLE more fruity ester flavor than mine. Going back and forth between the two, it became indistinguishable. Overall, the flavor was just a little off...and when I say off...not by much. Mine had a little bit more Malt character where the NN accentuated the fruit profile a little more. But once again, I dont think it was that much off at all.

A couple of tweaks and I think this is a real winner of a clone. I would recommend brewing and letting me know your thoughts!

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As well as it being the second pour... probably got enough yeast to cultivate a starter jk

Perhaps yours is lighter simply because it is cloudy? They look really close on the bottom of the glass.

mojotele said:

Perhaps yours is lighter simply because it is cloudy? They look really close on the bottom of the glass.

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Thats my excuse, errr guess. The picutre is a little darker than it really looks. It will still be a little light (surprised since it is partial mash).

So, if you were going to tweak this recipe, would you stick with the same Wy1318 yeast? I was wondering about trying something similar to your recipe with Wy1272, American Ale II, which I gather is somewhat fruitier than the "clean" American ale yeasts like 1056 or Pacman. Any thoughts on the yeast?

artguy said:

So, if you were going to tweak this recipe, would you stick with the same Wy1318 yeast? I was wondering about trying something similar to your recipe with Wy1272, American Ale II, which I gather is somewhat fruitier than the "clean" American ale yeasts like 1056 or Pacman. Any thoughts on the yeast?

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I want to wait until it fully carbs, settles, etc. I will be bringing this to a bachelor party of hop heads end of next month...so hopefully the profile will change a little bit with time.

If not, my original called for AM Ale II, but because they were out, I went for London Ale III as noted in the revised recipe. WL Burton Ale would be good too. Also, I would suspect maybe some more flavorign hops around 15 min should do the trick...but as is, pretty darn good first shot.

troutab81 said:

I want to wait until it fully carbs, settles, etc. I will be bringing this to a bachelor party of hop heads end of next month...so hopefully the profile will change a little bit with time.

If not, my original called for AM Ale II, but because they were out, I went for London Ale III as noted in the revised recipe. WL Burton Ale would be good too. Also, I would suspect maybe some more flavorign hops around 15 min should do the trick...but as is, pretty darn good first shot.

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Palisade is listed on the website, and I had to use a sub (Goldings). If I could find Palisade, I am sure that would make alil difference

This recipe was in the July/Aug. 2008 Zymurgy. The writer said it was provided by the brewer. I have tried it and it is great.
Nugget Nectar
og 1075
ibu 86
srm 11.4
90 min boil
6.5 Pils
7 Munich
5 oz Crystal 120

Mash 152

1 oz Nugget 60
1/2 half oz Simcoe 30
1 oz Warrior 20
1.25 oz Tomahawk 0
1 oz Palisade 0
1 oz Simcoe Dry
1 oz Palisade Dry
Yeast Wyeast 1056

sqhead said:

This recipe was in the July/Aug. 2008 Zymurgy. The writer said it was provided by the brewer. I have tried it and it is great.
Nugget Nectar
og 1075
ibu 86
srm 11.4
90 min boil
6.5 Pils
7 Munich
5 oz Crystal 120

Mash 152

1 oz Nugget 60
1/2 half oz Simcoe 30
1 oz Warrior 20
1.25 oz Tomahawk 0
1 oz Palisade 0
1 oz Simcoe Dry
1 oz Palisade Dry
Yeast Wyeast 1056

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I've seen that posted a bunch, but its a bit off from what Troeg's lists at the website. Did you do a side by side comparison to see how close it was?

sqhead said:

This recipe was in the July/Aug. 2008 Zymurgy. The writer said it was provided by the brewer. I have tried it and it is great.
Nugget Nectar
og 1075
ibu 86
srm 11.4
90 min boil
6.5 Pils
7 Munich
5 oz Crystal 120

Mash 152

1 oz Nugget 60
1/2 half oz Simcoe 30
1 oz Warrior 20
1.25 oz Tomahawk 0
1 oz Palisade 0
1 oz Simcoe Dry
1 oz Palisade Dry
Yeast Wyeast 1056

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I guess this is why there is a great debate...either that or the brewery is throwing us off

Their website lists Vienna as a malt, and Nugget/Warrior as the dry hops.

dcp27 said:

I've seen that posted a bunch, but its a bit off from what Troeg's lists at the website. Did you do a side by side comparison to see how close it was?

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I have and the only noticeable difference to me was the hops being more pronounced in the original. The malt profile to me is really close. I must say though I have never tried Vienna in the recipe so I can't comment on that.

Unfortunately, I don't have the space or time to fit this in sooner, but I plan on doing a slightly larger version of it next time and this is the bill I plan on going with for that:
3# extra light DME
5.5# pilsner malt
3#vienna malt
2# munich malt
6oz crystal 40L
1oz roasted barley
hops schedule undecided yet, but lots of nugget, warrior and tomahawk, with some palisade and simcoe
S-05 yeast

according to an interview I found (and subsequently lost) with one of the founders about making great ambers, they mention using clean yeasts and lots of it, and a touch of crystal and roasted barley

troutab81 said:

I think your recipe looks great, but you are missing the warrior, tomahawk, and palisade hops mentioned on the website. The ABV listed on their website is 7.4, and I think yours looks to be about 6.5.

Although, if you say it tastes great can't complain with that !

I picked up my NN and will be doing a side by side here very soon and will report back.... I take back my Friday ETA from before...once I got the NN I couldnt wait and the HBT members deserve nothing less!

Click to expand...

Yeah, I did some looking around the AHS web site and found that Nugget hops are a common substitution for Warrior hops and Cascade is a common sub for Palisades. Based on availability and cost at my LHBS the day I bought ingredients I decided to sub more Nugget and some Cascade for the Warrior and Palisade. Hopefully it doesn't make too much difference. You're right about the ABV though. When I try this again I'll probably add more Vienna and Munich malt.

Sounds like yours turned out good...I'll report back with a similar analysis in a few weeks. Bottling this weekend. Cheers!

troutab81 said:

Just a gut feeling :cross:

I am brewing today so will let everyone know how it rolls.

Tweaked recipe due to availability:

Ingredients Amount Item Type % or IBU
6.00 lb Pilsner Liquid Extract (3.5 SRM) Extract 50.0 %
2.00 lb Pilsner Liquid Extract (3.5 SRM) Extract 16.7 % (late addition)
2.00 lb Munich Malt - 10L (10.0 SRM) Grain 16.7 %
2.00 lb Vienna Malt (3.5 SRM) Grain 16.7 %
1.00 oz Nugget [13.00%] (60 min) Hops 35.6 IBU
1.00 oz Simcoe [13.00%] (30 min) Hops 27.4 IBU
1.00 oz Simcoe [13.00%] (15 min) Hops 17.7 IBU
1.00 oz Columbus (Tomahawk) [14.00%] (10 min) Hops 13.9 IBU
1.00 oz Goldings, East Kent [5.00%] (5 min) (Aroma Hop-Steep) Hops -
1.00 oz Nugget [13.00%] (Dry Hop 14 days) Hops -
1.00 oz Palisade [8.00%] (0 min) (Aroma Hop-Steep) Hops -
1.00 oz Warrior [15.00%] (Dry Hop 14 days) Hops -
1 Pkgs London Ale III (Wyeast Labs #1318) Yeast-Ale

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So I have been reading a lot of posts about this beer, because I ABSOLUTELY LOVE IT!

So here is what I am planning:

9 lb 8 oz Pilsner Malt
2 lb 6 oz Vienna Malt
2 lb 6 oz Munich 10L
0 lb 5 oz Caramel 60L

The above should get me right to an SRM of 8 - Straw/Orange

Here are the hops:

60 min - 1 oz Nugget
30 min - 1 oz Simcoe
15 min - 1 oz Columbus {Tomahawk} (Sub for Warrior)
15 min - 1 oz Centennial or Chinook (Sub for Columbus {Tomahawk}) - Need help deciding on this one. According to most of the Hop Charts around, Chinook is a better sub, however, I hear good things about Centennial.
1 min - 1 oz Williamette (Sub for Palisade)
0 min - 1 oz Nugget
Dry Hop - 2 oz Nugget

Yeast:

WPL001 California Ale or WPL051 California V Ale (Leaning for WPL051 as it leaves some fruity flavors, which I detect in NN).

Please let me know what you guys think. If you agree, then I will try this Saturday!

reddskinnfan said:

So I have been reading a lot of posts about this beer, because I ABSOLUTELY LOVE IT!

So here is what I am planning:

9 lb 8 oz Pilsner Malt
2 lb 6 oz Vienna Malt
2 lb 6 oz Munich 10L
0 lb 5 oz Caramel 60L

The above should get me right to an SRM of 8 - Straw/Orange

Here are the hops:

60 min - 1 oz Nugget
30 min - 1 oz Simcoe
15 min - 1 oz Columbus {Tomahawk} (Sub for Warrior)
15 min - 1 oz Centennial or Chinook (Sub for Columbus {Tomahawk}) - Need help deciding on this one. According to most of the Hop Charts around, Chinook is a better sub, however, I hear good things about Centennial.
1 min - 1 oz Williamette (Sub for Palisade)
0 min - 1 oz Nugget
Dry Hop - 2 oz Nugget

Yeast:

WPL001 California Ale or WPL051 California V Ale (Leaning for WPL051 as it leaves some fruity flavors, which I detect in NN).

Please let me know what you guys think. If you agree, then I will try this Saturday!

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Starting to heat up the mash water. Any suggestions on the recipe, particularly the Chinook or Centennial addition?

Already decided to use WPL001 as the yeast.

Thanks for any last minute insight!