Brew-on-premise planning

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ULynch

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Greetings all,

I'm in the planning stages for opening a new brew-on-premise shop in the midwest US. The concept is similar to the Canadian-style BOP, but using partial-mash techniques, quality ingredients, staffed by reasonably knowledgeable homebrewers, all performed with care and excellent hygeine. We'd like to emphasize craft beers, offer lager options and welcome recipe modifications. We'll only grudgingly allow Bud/Miller/Coors clones.

The initial plan is limited to BOP operations. Later stages may include small scale local distribution, then brewpup and restaurant expansion.

I need help in developing financials for this plan. It's proving difficult to find startup costs for equipment, and even harder finding detailed info on production costs, ingredient costs, etc. I need some clues to determine how many units at what price point are required to break even.

Anyone here been involved with the business side of a BOP? Would anyone have a business plan for a similar shop they'd be willing to share?

Thanks in advance for any info y'all can offer.

Dan Lynch
Nevada City, CA
 
Check the thread on Female homebrewers, there's a post about a BOP shop in New Jersey. Maybe they can help.
 
Like any startup, figure out how much you think it will cost and then expect a 2 or 3 hundred percent over run and hope that is all.
I hope you succeed. Good luck.
 
Hi - I have a comprehensive spreadsheet w/ P&L, balance sheet, revenue assumptions, startup costs - about everything you'd need for your analysis. My cost assumptions are out of date by about 10 years (I did this business case in 1994 in Arizona.)

Send me a PM w/ your email and I'll forward it to you.

Regards,
Mike
 
Hi Dan, I was thinking about starting a BOP in the New York area and wanted to see if you ever received these figures from the person who sent them to you and also wanted to see if you would be willing to share them with me. Thanks very much

Barry


Greetings all,

I'm in the planning stages for opening a new brew-on-premise shop in the midwest US. The concept is similar to the Canadian-style BOP, but using partial-mash techniques, quality ingredients, staffed by reasonably knowledgeable homebrewers, all performed with care and excellent hygeine. We'd like to emphasize craft beers, offer lager options and welcome recipe modifications. We'll only grudgingly allow Bud/Miller/Coors clones.

The initial plan is limited to BOP operations. Later stages may include small scale local distribution, then brewpup and restaurant expansion.

I need help in developing financials for this plan. It's proving difficult to find startup costs for equipment, and even harder finding detailed info on production costs, ingredient costs, etc. I need some clues to determine how many units at what price point are required to break even.

Anyone here been involved with the business side of a BOP? Would anyone have a business plan for a similar shop they'd be willing to share?

Thanks in advance for any info y'all can offer.

Dan Lynch
Nevada City, CA
 
Barry,
Did you ever get started on your idea for a BOP?
Ken

Hi Dan, I was thinking about starting a BOP in the New York area and wanted to see if you ever received these figures from the person who sent them to you and also wanted to see if you would be willing to share them with me. Thanks very much

Barry
 
I was also thinking of starting a similar but slight different business. I was wondering how this has gone for some of you and if any one had any helpful info they'd be willing to share (financial, legal etc.). I'm more of an entrepreneur than a brewer, but I've been working on this project for several months now and would really like to get it started once I graduate in a few month. Thank you very much in advance to anyone that has any help and I look forward to talking to some of you soon.
 
I think this may be a record: 7 (now 8) posts in a thread, 4 of them by first time posters.

I'm guessing this shows up when one googles "Planning a Brew on premise" or similar. Best of luck everyone. BOP's don't seem that popular... I think they are an excellent idea in principle, but you need a very high demand to keep one open.
 
why would you pay some one to let you brew there?

People don't have room or equipment to do it themselves. Perhaps they want to pursue the hobby, but are hesitant. These places will let you try it out, ferment your beer at the right temperature, and you will walk out with a couple of bottled cases of beer. Not bad for the casual brewer or as a gift.
 
People don't have room or equipment to do it themselves. Perhaps they want to pursue the hobby, but are hesitant. These places will let you try it out, ferment your beer at the right temperature, and you will walk out with a couple of bottled cases of beer. Not bad for the casual brewer or as a gift.

Yes, that seems to be a trend for gifts, too. There was a place about 100 miles from me that had had a wineshop/ BOP and some of the birthday gifts were for 6 gallons of wine. The wine shop had all of the "stuff" and the budding winemaker would go to the shop and have the owner help make the wine. They came back on racking day, and bottling day. They could use the owner's corker, but had to buy bottles and corks. So, the customer had 6 gallons of wine they made, and the owner had a profilt. It seemed like a win/win. The problem was the number of people who actually did this- not that many, so the shop closed.
 
The primary benefit that I see is the ability to brew lagers... I've wanted to make a Munich Dunkel for over a year and still don't have the ability to lager, and I dont think I will in the near future.

With that said, BOP laws are actually fairly simple (at least in RI):

(a) A brew on premises license (BOP) authorizes the holder to provide brewing supplies and facilities to the public for the private manufacture of malt beverages on the licensed premises. The BOP license shall not authorize the sale of malt beverage to the general public on the premises nor the consumption of alcoholic beverages on the premises. The annual fee for the license shall be one thousand dollars ($1,000) for producing more than fifty thousand (50,000) gallons per year and one hundred dollars ($100) per year for producing less than fifty thousand (50,000) gallons per year, prorated to the year ending December 1 in every calendar year and paid to the director of the department of business regulation.

(b) The director of the department of business regulation, the director of the department of health, and the director of the department of environmental management may promulgate rules and regulations, not inconsistent with the purpose of this section, if in the interest of health and safety they are deemed necessary. The director of the department of business regulation shall limit to seven (7) the maximum number of operating facilities issued licenses by the department pursuant to this section.

(c) Any operating facility issued a license pursuant to this section and any individuals using the premises are subject to federal regulations including, but not limited to, 27 CFR 24.75 and 27 CFR 25.205-25.206.

(d) Any facility issued a license pursuant to this section shall, in addition to any federal regulations, comply with the following conditions:

(1) The proprietor of the facility must provide a written notice to the director of the department of business regulation before beginning business. The notice must contain the name and address of the brew on premises facility and the hours when it is open for business. The maximum hours of operation shall be Monday through Saturday, eight o'clock (8:00) a.m. through eleven o'clock (11:00) p.m. and Sunday twelve o'clock (12:00) noon through six o'clock (6:00) p.m., provided, however, bottled beer shall not be removed from the facility on Sundays, and except on Christmas, New Year's, and Thanksgiving when the facility shall not be open. The notice must be updated in the event of any change in name, address or hours of operation;

(2) The proprietor of the brew on premises facility must keep records relating to all individuals using the facility. Information in these records must include the name, address, age, number of adults residing in the individual's household, and the quantity of beer produced by each individual during a calendar year. These records may consist of commercial records or invoices, and must be available for inspection by any authorized investigator of this department during the business hours of the facility;

(3) The brew on premises facility shall not provide physical assistance to, or on behalf of, customers in the production or bottling of beer, but may provide advice.

(i) The following activities are examples of providing physical assistance in the production of beer:

(A) Filling of vessels with brewing ingredients;

(B) Mixing of ingredients;

(C) Movement of beer from one vessel or container to another container; and

(D) Filtering and bottling of the final product;

(ii) The following activities do not constitute providing physical assistance in the production of beer:

(A) Cleaning, maintenance, and repair of brewing and bottling equipment;

(B) Maintenance of climate and temperature control;

(C) Disposal of spent grains and wastes;

(D) Quality control (including laboratory examination) of beer; and

(E) Preheating of vessels;

(4) The same individual is responsible for brewing, handling or transporting the beer produced and must be at least twenty-one (21) years of age. This individual may produce beer within the prescribed quantity of limitations, shall not transport in excess of twenty (20) gallons of beer produced, and may not sell beer produced. Production of beer for personal use may not be in violation of federal law or regulation or state law or regulation. Beer produced at a brew on premises facility may be removed only for the personal use of the brewer.

(ii) The production of beer per household for personal or family use may not exceed:

(A) Two hundred (200) gallons per calendar year if there are two (2) or more adults residing in the household; or

(B) One hundred (100) gallons per calendar year if there is only one adult residing in the household;

(iii) Partnerships, corporations, or associations may not use the brew on premises facility and may not produce beer for personal or family use; and

(iv) Transportation of brewed beer shall be at the time of bottling. The brew on premises facility shall not allow more than twenty (20) cases (twenty-four (24) twelve (12) ounce bottles) to remain on the premises at any given time.

(e) Any violation of the provisions of this section shall be enforced in accordance with any of the appropriate enforcement provisions contained in this title.
 
(iv) Transportation of brewed beer shall be at the time of bottling. The brew on premises facility shall not allow more than twenty (20) cases (twenty-four (24) twelve (12) ounce bottles) to remain on the premises at any given time.


Everything else sounds reasonable and fair... although not being able to help a customer... you can't stir while they pour... might also mean not violating ADA rules is difficult...

But if you use the strict interpretation of this rule... once the yeast goes to work, its beer... hope your business plan doesn't require more than 5 customers per week... and everyone bottles within 2 weeks... no lagering allowed... if a business can't have more than 50 gallons on the premises I don't see how its possible to turn a profit unless it is a side business of something larger like a homebrew shop...
 
We have one her in Orange County, CA and they've combined it with food and music so you get groups of people doing it as a night out, plus they have multiple samples to try. Try them they may help if you're not a direct competitor, www.brewbakers1.com.
 
But if you use the strict interpretation of this rule... once the yeast goes to work, its beer... hope your business plan doesn't require more than 5 customers per week... and everyone bottles within 2 weeks... no lagering allowed... if a business can't have more than 50 gallons on the premises I don't see how its possible to turn a profit unless it is a side business of something larger like a homebrew shop...

Where does it say this??

It does say this:
The brew on premises facility shall not allow more than twenty (20) cases (twenty-four (24) twelve (12) ounce bottles) to remain on the premises at any given time.

However, I see nothing resembling what you said....
 
Wow, Zombie thread.

For anyone interested, there is a pretty successful BOP in Cleveland OH called "The Brew Kettle". They went from BOP to brewpub and now have a commercial brewery down the street. The BOP buisness as far as I could tell is really strong. I'm sure the owner would be willing to talk to anyone interested.
 
Seems to me that these businesses would rely upon an attached business to draw attention/help support it, or BOP operations supplement the other business. The obvious combination would be BOP and homebrew shop, since that way you could buy supplies in bulk and use them in both businesses.

Otherwise, one could always try to attach a BOP business to an existing business, such as attaching a BOP to an existing homebrew store, where the store gets promotion and extra sales from the BOP and the BOP gets promotion and a discount on supplies from the store.

Definitely a business that relies heavily upon foot traffic, so it seems like without something else to help bring business you would spend a lot of time/effort/money bringing in customers that eats into your profits.
 
But if you use the strict interpretation of this rule... once the yeast goes to work, its beer... hope your business plan doesn't require more than 5 customers per week... and everyone bottles within 2 weeks... no lagering allowed... if a business can't have more than 50 gallons on the premises I don't see how its possible to turn a profit unless it is a side business of something larger like a homebrew shop...
Where does it say this??

It does say this:
Quote:
The brew on premises facility shall not allow more than twenty (20) cases (twenty-four (24) twelve (12) ounce bottles) to remain on the premises at any given time.


And when the alcohol control board inspector comes on site, and says... 20 cases x 24 x 12 ounces = 5760 ounces or 45 gallons... I see 12 carboys with 5 gallons each or 60 gallons or 30 cases of beer on the premises... you sir are in violation of the law.

Otherwise, I could get around that part of the statute by bottling in 22 oz bottles or 40s or kegs...

If it "after bottling" was the intent of the law, you'd better make sure that those responsible for enforcing said law agree with you... if the gestapo come in and cite you and start dumping beer based on their interpretation, you will still be out the legal fees even if you are proven right in court.

Maybe I'm misreading it, but are there 5 gallons of beer in my bathtub right now? Is that a little over two cases? yes and yes... (it is a carboy with 5 gallons of beer sitting in secondary)
 
I see how you're reading it, I just don't agree. But then again I'm no lawyer, nor do I play one in infomercials. At least we're reading the same part of the law :D

How I see it, is the statement started with talking about bottling, and ended with that comment while still referring to it in a bottled quantity (and at that point I believe it is explicitly defining what the law considers a case to be):

(iv) Transportation of brewed beer shall be at the time of bottling. The brew on premises facility shall not allow more than twenty (20) cases (twenty-four (24) twelve (12) ounce bottles) to remain on the premises at any given time.

I think this is a method of ensuring that bottled beer is not being sold by the BOP.

Seeing as how this would be directly contradictory to the first statement of the law (in that it would be impossible for the company to produce more 10k gallons a year, let alone 50k, with a speed of 2x your afore mentioned fermentation schedule, which I agree with) I believe it is safe to believe the law is talking bottled quantity, not total quantity. YOMV.

Also, my bad for not noticing your "strict interpretation of the rule" comment earlier, I should have known that is where you got your quantity from. It would be a debilitating strictness, in terms of making it as a business.
 
I agree, that was probably the intent... and in Rhode Island you are probably fine... but if you lived in a state where the attorney general is concerned about a visible mammary on a line drawing of a goddess on the state seal...
 
I agree, that was probably the intent... and in Rhode Island you are probably fine... but if you lived in a state where the attorney general is concerned about a visible mammary on a line drawing of a goddess on the state seal...

Ha, true. We even have medical marijuana here now... its New England... relaaaxxxx :D
 
Hi - I have a comprehensive spreadsheet w/ P&L, balance sheet, revenue assumptions, startup costs - about everything you'd need for your analysis. My cost assumptions are out of date by about 10 years (I did this business case in 1994 in Arizona.)

Send me a PM w/ your email and I'll forward it to you.

Regards,
Mike

Does anyone have this aforementioned spreadsheet? I'd like to look at it!
 
Me too! If anyone has a basic BOP business plan it would be much appreciated! There is no BOP in NC so we are putting together a plan to see if its feasible.
 
BOP's in Canada are fairly successful. Most of them combine home brew supplies and BOP. Wine kits are a must to carry though, as those seem to be most of the business.
 
Wow, Zombie thread.

For anyone interested, there is a pretty successful BOP in Cleveland OH called "The Brew Kettle". They went from BOP to brewpub and now have a commercial brewery down the street. The BOP buisness as far as I could tell is really strong. I'm sure the owner would be willing to talk to anyone interested.

+1 Chris the owner is a super nice guy and would probably help anyone looking for pointers. Their bop buisiness is always jam packed and you've got to book a kettle a month or so in advance. Awesome food and top knotch staff make this a great place to visit.They also sell ingredients and kits with instructions of their house beers. I still go there to get my yeast, eat and brew. This place is what got me into the hobby :rockin:
 
+1 Chris the owner is a super nice guy and would probably help anyone looking for pointers. Their bop buisiness is always jam packed and you've got to book a kettle a month or so in advance. Awesome food and top knotch staff make this a great place to visit.They also sell ingredients and kits with instructions of their house beers. I still go there to get my yeast, eat and brew. This place is what got me into the hobby :rockin:

Brew Kettle is about as good as it gets. The owner will do a 3 hour consultation for 500 bucks.
 
(iv) Transportation of brewed beer shall be at the time of bottling. The brew on premises facility shall not allow more than twenty (20) cases (twenty-four (24) twelve (12) ounce bottles) to remain on the premises at any given time.

This has absolutely nothing to do with the beer in process or kegged at the BOP. This has to do with "finished" bottled product. Once it's bottled it's gone, out the door. They aren't allowed to keep more than 20 bottled cases of finished product. The place I started at has a policy that states "if you don't bottle it within 30 days, it's ours."
 
The place where I started was pretty basic and busy. They actually moved to a bigger site in the past year. They just ran about 5 taps and you could sample if you wanted but you could also drink pints while you brewed. Any food, you brought in yourslef. Over about two hours you brewed a kettle of roughly 6 cases of beer. If you went in with others on different kettles the cost went down in 10% increments.

Enjoyed the heck out of it, all the fun stuff of brewind none of the work. Thing was combining the cost of brewing with the bar tab was running about $225 a brewing. The other problem was it was about an hour from home and the beer drank while brewing kinda hits on the way home. A long way to go to get home.

When I looked at the start up costs to home brew and compared to the BOP place, with the only difference being who cleans up behind me, I figured I would pay myself The extra money and clean up myself. And if I get hammered, I can just head up to bed, rather than driving home.
 
I am also interested in this but have only been homebrewing for a year or so. I can see the potential for something like this in the town I live. The nearest BOP is in Huntington Beach (abt 1 hr away) and seems to be doing quite well. I think if I kept it just a BOP, with no food (customers can bring their own) and start with a small brew menu it could work. Please if anyone has had experience opening one of these talk me into/out-of it... Would love to see that business plan talked about earlier in the thread.
 
Hi - I have a comprehensive spreadsheet w/ P&L, balance sheet, revenue assumptions, startup costs - about everything you'd need for your analysis. My cost assumptions are out of date by about 10 years (I did this business case in 1994 in Arizona.)

Send me a PM w/ your email and I'll forward it to you.

Regards,
Mike
Mike do you think you could possibly send me your old business plan? [email protected]. Cheers!
 
Hi All!
Anyone who is looking for a sample business plan for a BOP, you can take a look at the link below, or grab the attached PDF:

http://www.edwards.usask.ca/faculty...nd Beer UBrew)/U-Brew Business Plan v2.0.docx

There are some really good details in there that can get the gears turning.
Also, as this thread is pretty old, it would be really cool to see if anyone has actually followed through on their plans, and let us know how it turned out?
 

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7 of the 35 previous posts were by first time posters making their one and only post. That has to be an HBT record.
 
Hi - I have a comprehensive spreadsheet w/ P&L, balance sheet, revenue assumptions, startup costs - about everything you'd need for your analysis. My cost assumptions are out of date by about 10 years (I did this business case in 1994 in Arizona.)

Send me a PM w/ your email and I'll forward it to you.

Regards,
Mike
Mike,
If you still have that spreadsheet could you please send a copy to me? Thanks [email protected]
 

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