Black Mold vs Starsan?

I noticed I had some black mold spots on the underside of my carboy. I guess it was left wet and moisture got trapped inside the bubble. Since I freaked actually seeing the spots, I went and checked my other empty vessels. I then noticed my 1 gallon jugs that got left in the basement had a few black spots inside them! If I scrub them down with hot water then scrub with starsan will it kill the black mold? I wasn't sure what things starsan kills, and this is the typical mold you get in dark wet areas.

Thanks, now I gotta wonder WHY mold is popping up so damn fast down there... My basement is dry. Do you guys ever have this kind of problem?

Can't chime in about having the same issue- I would suggest milk crates though. If carboys are empty, turn the crate upside down and set it on top so it is elevated, has air underneath it and won't build up moisture. If they're full, they make great carriers for carboys and still offer a little space underneath with vents.

Give them a good scrubbing/rinse with hot water and toss some starsan mix in them for awhile, should be good. I would sanitize right before use to be safe, to cut back on contamination.

MoRoToRiUm said:

I would suggest milk crates though. If carboys are empty, turn the crate upside down and set it on top so it is elevated, has air underneath it and won't build up moisture. If they're full, they make great carriers for carboys and still offer a little space underneath with vents.

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+1 to milk crates, I use them incessantly. They're such nice things to have around the brewery for carboys, bottles, equipment, etc.I never turn mine upside down in a milk crate though, I was always afraid they would get jostled and break.

Here's an idea though. Seeing as how you live in a similar climate as mine, let me ask you a few questions. Now that it's cold outside, do you notice your windows fogging up a lot? Not just in the kitchen when you're cooking pasta or something, but in other rooms of your house? Nighttime is most common, but it could happen during the day as well. I just recently had a problem where the humidistat on my furnace was not working, so my humidifier was just running wide open all the time. I had something like 60% humidity going in the house. While this is nice for the sinuses in the winter time, it's bad for everything else. I would go buy a little humidistat at Big Lots or something, and set it in different rooms of the house and see what you're humidity levels are running.

I do have milk crates, however I didn't use them past helping take them downstairs. Thats a good idea though to help with air flow.

I always use starsan before filling anything, I am pretty anal about it. I just wasn't sure if it kills mold on contact as its always tough to get rid of.

Terapin: I don't have a humidifier built into my furnace system. I should check the levels, although my house seems fairly dry. The basement is a typical basement though and I only have the framing up to finish it. But it does stay dry, it just seems whenever water is left about mold shows up pretty fast?

I'm interested: Will StarSan kill black mold on other materials? Like, perhaps, the little spot of wall beneath my shower head? Or is that where a 10% bleach mixture comes in?

Taipans said:

The basement is a typical basement though and I only have the framing up to finish it. But it does stay dry, it just seems whenever water is left about mold shows up pretty fast?

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This tells me you have a significant amount of mold spores in the air and on surfaces in your basement. It's not unlikely that there is an actual mold source somewhere providing these spores. Is there a mold-like odor in your basement? There are a couple things I would consider doing... if there's a lot of mold spores in your basement, there's got to be a mold source and, therefore, a water/moisture source. You'll need to find this source and repair it so that water/moisture intrusion is reduced. You should also get a dehumidifier in the basement. I know you say your basement is dry, but if you have a problem with mold growth like that, there has to be a source. Do you know what the relative humidity is in your basement? You could also consider getting a HEPA air scrubber to "clean" the air. It will help to finish finishing your basement, but I would make sure to find and repair any potential water/moisture intrusion areas before putting up drywall, etc.

menschmaschine said:

You'll need to find this source and repair it so that water/moisture intrusion is reduced.

You should also get a dehumidifier in the basement.

Do you know what the relative humidity is in your basement?

I would make sure to find and repair any potential water/moisture intrusion areas before putting up drywall, etc.

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Excellent ideas. I would find a cheap little humidistat first, see what the humidity actually is. It's much harder to notice when it's cold outside (if your basement is as cool as mine in the wintertime) This shouldn't run you more than $5 or so. A good search of the basement wouldn't hurt either. This could be in your floor drains, corners, where the wood meets the concrete, or anywhere really. Sounds like you should just spray down your whole basement with StarSan, kill all the baddies

...i'm picturing John Goodman in Arachnaphobia, in your basement with a corny keg full of starsan...

TerapinChef said:

I would find a cheap little humidistat first, see what the humidity actually is.

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Also, remember to compare to the relative humidity outside... and even to the rest of the house. In the average house, air is exchanged at a rate of 3X per hour. This would probably be reduced a bit in a basement, but the point is, if it's raining or has recently rained outside, your basement is going to be more humid than normal. If your basement is significantly higher in relative humidity than the outside (with no recent weather changes) and the rest of your house, a moisture problem is likely.

However, in addition to relative humidity, the best thing to use is humidity ratio (calculated from temperature and relative humidity) and compare that to the outside and other areas in the house. Relative humidity is partially a function of temperature. Humidity ratio takes temperature out of the factor. I posted the calculation for this here.

I have never seen any leaks, or mold on any surfaces. I also don't smell mold down there, but I know your right. Is there a way to have someone come out to "detect" mold with some kind of instrument to pin point where its coming from?

I don't want to finish it up without finding the source, and visually I can't.

Thanks for the help!

Taipans said:

I have never seen any leaks, or mold on any surfaces. I also don't smell mold down there, but I know your right. Is there a way to have someone come out to "detect" mold with some kind of instrument to pin point where its coming from?

I don't want to finish it up without finding the source, and visually I can't.

Thanks for the help!

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Yeah, there are "mold" people out there, but be careful... there's a lot of voodoo in the residential mold business. This is one of the things I do at my consulting firm, but we're more building science-based than we are mold-based.

What you don't want (it seems) is for someone to come out and "test" for mold. And it's expensive to send samples to the lab. All that will do is tell you something you already know (you have mold in your basement). You want someone to come out with, primarily, a moisture meter, an infrared camera, and a hygrometer. We also use air particulate testing (measures quantities of particulates in the air in specific size ranges, and can show possible areas of biological contamination), but not many in the industry do because the instruments are expensive and most people in this field don't know how to interpret the data.

You also want a company that has the experience and knowledge-base to tell you how to fix it. And there is usually more than one option on how to fix it (cheap to expensive). Whatever the water source, remember this... caulk is, at best, a band-aid.

Chriso said:

I'm interested: Will StarSan kill black mold on other materials? Like, perhaps, the little spot of wall beneath my shower head? Or is that where a 10% bleach mixture comes in?

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Grout and star-san don't mix...something Charlie Talley told me once...

If I could just find out where the hell its coming from I would be all for ripping it all out and making sure its right. I don't want the health risks with my kids anyhow, it goes well beyond brewing. I noticed some places listed on the web but I can't tell if they are legit or not. Thanks for the heads up though! What do you think about those mold testing kits out now? You set the plates in various areas and it will tell you which places are the strongest.

dazed said:

Grout and star-san don't mix...something Charlie Talley told me once...

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It's drywall. I don't know why drywall is in my shower.

Noted, though - that's good info, I could see myself using it without thinking about it!!!!

One place got back to me, and this is their price guide:

Indoor Air Quality Inspection: Terms like “Sick Building Syndrome” or
“Building Related Illness” need to be taken seriously. If you feel your home is causing a
health problem, let us help clear the air. After identifying the causes, we develop a
remediation plan. Make sure your building or home doesn’t have indoor air quality
issues. $175.00 per inspection and report

Mold Testing: We identify the type and quantity of mold, explain possible health
risks and prepare a remediation plan.
$100.00 per air sample - $100.00 per tape lift or bulk sample


So they come in, charge me 100 bucks to tell me I have mold, then go onto to explain why its bad and possible things I can do about it. That doesn't sound to great, I need someone to test and try to find it so I dont go ripping out all my walls! Not to mention you know they will need more then one sample just to find which area is the strongest so I am looking at hundreds!

Taipans said:

I then noticed my 1 gallon jugs that got left in the basement had a few black spots inside them! If I scrub them down with hot water then scrub with starsan will it kill the black mold? I wasn't sure what things starsan kills, and this is the typical mold you get in dark wet areas.

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It very well might kill it, but I wouldn't depend upon it. StarSan is a sanitizer...it's good at turning immaculately clean surfaces into well sanitized surfaces.

If I had mold, I'd probably use a percarbonate cleaner or detergent, following that with a good strong bleach soak, and an extremely thorough rinse. I wouldn't reach for the StarSan until I'm ready to use the vessel, and only once it's already squeaky clean.

Taipans, PM-ing you...

TerapinChef said:

+1 to milk crates, I use them incessantly. They're such nice things to have around the brewery for carboys, bottles, equipment, etc.I never turn mine upside down in a milk crate though, I was always afraid they would get jostled and break.

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I actually meant if the carboy is being stored empty on the floor, turn the milk crate upside down and set the carboy right side up on top so it has more air ventilation during storage.

Things to look for in a basement

Any floor drains/sewage lines
Windows at ground level
Cracks in cement walls
Any discolored/wet areas along seams after a hard rain
If you have heating/cooling, check ducts for moisture and mold

Most actual mold you can see with a black light, if I remember correctly. Maybe after you check some of the above for any possible sources, scout the basement with a black light. The de-humidifier should hopefully help if this it the only place you see it.

bleach kills mold dead. Have used it for a long time (since my food service days where bleaching a walk-in cooler at a restaurant was a monthly job)

Bleach will also take the glaze off tile. Bad to use in the bathroom. Use ammonia and a toothbrush to scrub grout clean.

B

i would also check your drains around your bathrooms/kitchen area. these are good areas for water to linger under cabinets and such long enough for mold to grow. from here it is easy for spores to circulate throughout your home via the furnace/ac system. as recommended earlier a good hepa filter system on your hvac will help.

Microban Disinfectant Mold Killer is what you need. Also run a dehumidifier in the basement to keep humidity levels below 50%. For more information on Mold Removal, Mold Remediation, Mold Testing, Mold Inspection, Mold Abatement, Mold Cleanup check out these two sites:

http://www.absolutelyspotless.us


http://www.absolutelyspotlessmold.com