American Pale Ale Three Floyds Zombie Dust Clone

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chutracheese said:
TrickyDick - Great post.
Do you like to use a hopsack or loose to dryhop in primary?

Loose dry hops in primary or secondary always. Never use a sack unless doing in the keg, then I use a nylon hopsack that I steam for five or so minutes on the stovetop to sanitize it, along with those HolePlug SS nuts/bolts that came with my Blichmann boilermakers to weight the bag down.
Have a Pliny clone I can't drink cause dip tube plugged with hop particles! No empty kegs available just now, so its getting additional dry hop time. I think that was my last time keg dry hopping, though have done successfully many times in past.

TD
 
TD: So I dry hopped in the keg during secondary and am having a few issues. First, there is a lot of hop sediment in the first pour...hope this will settle with time/cold crashing. The kegs got way over carbonated. I started secondary at 1.018ish and it finished at 1.011. Having a hard time with a couple of the kegs getting the dry hoppers out as even after I release CO2 , as soon as I try to open the keg it foams over with more CO2 being released. Ever had any of these issues? I am sure I can work around them, but this has been more trouble than I expected.
 
stonebrewer said:
TD: So I dry hopped in the keg during secondary and am having a few issues. First, there is a lot of hop sediment in the first pour...hope this will settle with time/cold crashing. The kegs got way over carbonated. I started secondary at 1.018ish and it finished at 1.011. Having a hard time with a couple of the kegs getting the dry hoppers out as even after I release CO2 , as soon as I try to open the keg it foams over with more CO2 being released. Ever had any of these issues? I am sure I can work around them, but this has been more trouble than I expected.

Sorry to hear that.

I'm not sure what advice I can offer you. Sounds like 1.011 should be Terminal gravity, or really close to it. i have never done a secondary in a keg. i assume you were trying to naturally carbonate the beer. continued fermentation in the keg could be responsible for the first pour sediment, and should clear with time hopefully. If you can supercool it in a freezer to drop temp to like 32°F for instance or a big tub of ice, you might be able to force some of the co2 back into suspension to keep it from gushing when you pop the lid (I assume you are doing this to remove the hops?). As far as removing the dry hop sack, I have never attempted to do so until beer has been consumed. It seems like the krausen or foam might be plugging the co2 release partially? When you dump the pressure using the lid valve, it should not gush when you open the lid. You can try to depressurize by depressing the gas in poppet, assuming it is above the beer liquid level. You'll probably get foam gushing out of that too.

Step one would be to get that keg as cold as you can, to lower the pressure, and keep using the pressure release valve to dump the head space pressure. Eventually you should be able to open the lid and fish out the hops if that is your desire. I wonder if a sanitized fishing line and hook with a sinker (lead I know, but you could maybe use SS hex nuts tied on) might let you fish a weighted hop sack out of a keg. Might tear the sack though. This is why I've always left the hop sacks in the keg. Don't forget that if you remove the lid, you should probably reseat the seal with 30psi on the regulator and then snap the gas connect onto the post. Then remove the gas connection, shut off regulator, bleed the gas line by depressing the stem in the gas connection (point away from your face) with a blunt screwdriver tip, readjust gas pressure to where it needs to be. Don't reconnect the gas line. Release the co2 vent valve to bleed out the air you just added to seal the lid.

Sounds like you had more than your fair share of troubles. Anyway, once you get the gushing under control, its sounding like its still could be over carbonated. Make sure keg and beer has chilled for at least 24 hours to get to the proper serving temp because temperature greatly affects the soluability of the CO2. Unfortunately once overcarbonated, it takes a lot of time and patience to fix. Basically, you need the vent the CO2 pressure every day or even three to four times a day, until its back to where you want it. I would not try to apply any additional CO2 pressure until the foaming and gushing is gone, and then just add enough so it will pour from the tap, you might not need any additional pressure for pouring for a while if it is really over carbonated. They make they valves I think called spudnig valves(?) that let your keg purge excess pressure to whatever you've dialed in. I have never used one. Not necessary, but might be easier and less time consuming to get your beer back to proper co2 level.

Personally, I'd get the keg into a freezer if you can or at least a cold fridge or huge bucket of ice water ASAP. Then I'd would purge the lid valve several times over the next day if using a fridge or over next hour if using ice bath. Then I'd try to see if it still gushes when you remove the lid if you're really determined to remove the hops, but me, I'd just leave them in. If the hops were going to plug the dip tube, they'd have probably done so already or within first few pours. Then I would hook to my beer line and see how it pours after giving it some time to settle after moving it. If it is way over carbonated like it sounds like, I'd proceed as above.

Good luck.
TD
 
2 days into dry hop. Gravity sample tasted amazing!

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TD: Thanks for the words of wisdom. I agree with where you are going and had already popped kegs into the freezer to crash. Hopefully this will get the excess CO2 out or if not I will just add a temp faucet and do a few pint pours to get rid of the excess CO2. I was really suprised by how much CO2 built up during secondary! I am using stainless steel hop spiders, so all I need to do it get the top off and hook a SS hook I have to the top of the spider and I can easily remove it.

I dry hopped with 3 different hops, one per keg. One was Citra to make a true ZD clone, one was mosaic, and the last was with Amarillo. All smell amazing! Cannot wait to get a nice clear pour to sample with friends! Cheers mate!
 
Just revisited this thread to check for responses to my post. Thanks for all the great advice TrickyDick! Especially the liquid post info, I would be devastated if I had it all leak out.
 
So after cold crashing my ZD clone which I dry hopped in the keg during secondary with Citra and Mosaic, I am now able to pour fairly clean beer. There are still some small hop boogers in the glass, but they are few and far between. The aroma is as good as any commercial craft beer I have ever had and the taste is awesome! Though I ran into some small issues with this method, I think I will keep doing it for my IPA's. I like the fact that I am in secondary so my yeast is still making CO2 for me and I don't have to worry about oxygen as much as I am not doing an additional transfer, and CO2 is heavier than air so it should be at the surface of my beer protecting it from oxygen in the little bit of air that might be left in the keg. There is also the thought that the yeast have transformed some of the hop oils, making my beer taste even better. I need to read up on that, but I know other brewing buddies are trying this as well. Cilurzo is doing this at Russian River and if you are lucky enough to try his beers, you'll probably try to mimic him to some degree, right? Anyhow, just wanted to pop back on here and say thanks again for the recipe! This is one awesome brew! I also recommend you try my experiment with dry hopping Citra, Mosaic, and Amarillo and see which one you like best! Cheers all!
 
Fordzilla said:
Just revisited this thread to check for responses to my post. Thanks for all the great advice TrickyDick! Especially the liquid post info, I would be devastated if I had it all leak out.

Once you know you don't have leaks, you can be a bit daring. I suspect most folks would be fine, but would be horrible to lose an entire keg, not to mention cleanup.

Just racked my clone. Hit 1.010 FG. Pitched two packs S05 and one pack S04 for 11 gallons (and yeast was getting old). Slight under pitch per beersmith, but did the trick. Hydrometer sample is fantastic. 5 days dry hops in the primary still a little edgey, but should smooth out. Color seems good. Can't wait to try, but will be a while since I've no empty kegs!

TD
 
I have come to the conclusion I am just not a fan of Citra hops. I have had some commercial Citra IPA and DIPA's that have great reviews but I thought were average (I even dumped one). I have done a Citra PA, which is good but just average, and I have done this one. It isn't bad, but it isn't my thing...once again. I will say the aroma is spectacular.
 
I'll add that hop pellets should be cautiously used in a keg and ALWAYS in a bag. Aside from clogging the poppet valve, hop pellets will sink without any weights. My experience is they then will suck up the dip tube, resulting in foamy foamy foamy pour.

I've gone away from using hop pellets in kegs and always do a dry hop in the primary.

Hop leafs can clog dip tubes and poppets as well, so I recommend a bag as well. A bag of hop leafs will typically float, so it can be less risk using in a keg. However, I have found if trying to quickly carbonate a beer with higher keg pressure, say 25-30 PSI, it can actually cause the leaf hop bag sink.

Long story short, always use a bag in a keg. If using pellets, I'd strongly suggest removing them, which can SUCK. This is why I dry hop in the fermenter 99% of the time!

Cheers,
~Adam
 
AOD said:
I'll add that hop pellets should be cautiously used in a keg and ALWAYS in a bag. Aside from clogging the poppet valve, hop pellets will sink without any weights. My experience is they then will suck up the dip tube, resulting in foamy foamy foamy pour.

I've gone away from using hop pellets in kegs and always do a dry hop in the primary.

Hop leafs can clog dip tubes and poppets as well, so I recommend a bag as well. A bag of hop leafs will typically float, so it can be less risk using in a keg. However, I have found if trying to quickly carbonate a beer with higher keg pressure, say 25-30 PSI, it can actually cause the leaf hop bag sink.

Long story short, always use a bag in a keg. If using pellets, I'd strongly suggest removing them, which can SUCK. This is why I dry hop in the fermenter 99% of the time!

Cheers,
~Adam

Ditto on those recommendations. It might be easier to attempt to dry hop in the keg, and you might dodge the bullet on hop particle problems or foamy beer, but sooner or later, you're probably going to regret it. Also you aren't really saving time. Keg dry hopping seems to give initial astringency and grassy notes that take time to mellow. Ordinarily this would take place before you've had a chance to taste as it wouldn't be in keg on tap to sample if you did primary or secondary dry hopping.

TD
 
I'm chillin watching some NHL hockey and decided to get a Chicagoland-area beer to support my team; so I cracked open a 3 Floyds Zombie Dust that's ~6 months old.

The beer has held up well, very well. It's been stored cold, served tonight at 50F.

I want to mention that the stonefruit ester yeast character (mostly aroma) is very pronounced right now. The mouthfeel is medium, but the finish is med. dry and crisp. All of these points to the Wyeast 1968 / WLP 002 yeast strain!

I strongly encourage folks to nail down beers with WLP001/WY1056, but if you want to step out and learn some new stuff, try this yeast.

Cheers,
~Adam
 
1968 is a common "house" yeast among most big breweries as well.

It floccs out very easily with a good cold crash, and allows them to re use it and harvest new cells easily.

It allows hops to shine still, yet gives another note to a malty backbone in most beers.
 
AOD said:
I want to mention that the stonefruit ester yeast character (mostly aroma) is very pronounced right now. The mouthfeel is medium, but the finish is med. dry and crisp. All of these points to the Wyeast 1968 / WLP 002 yeast strain!


I thought I read that 1968 was WLP 007 not 002, and that was also the same as safale s04.

Anyway, due to brain fart, I had three packs of aging yeast I used when I brewed. Two packs s05, one pack s04. I rehydrated in wort and pitched all three packs for my 11 gal batch.

TD
 
I thought I read that 1968 was WLP 007 not 002, and that was also the same as safale s04.

007 is Dry English. WY1968 is DEF. not a dry (high attenuating) yeast strain. Your best comparison for yeast strains is here: http://www.mrmalty.com/yeast.htm

I'm not sure where Safale 004 fits into the mix...it's English-y in character, but I'm not sure where it finishes attentuation wise. I'd just encourage folks to spend $3 more and get the liquid strain.

~Adam
 
AOD said:
007 is Dry English. WY1968 is DEF. not a dry (high attenuating) yeast strain. Your best comparison for yeast strains is here: http://www.mrmalty.com/yeast.htm

I'm not sure where Safale 004 fits into the mix...it's English-y in character, but I'm not sure where it finishes attentuation wise. I'd just encourage folks to spend $3 more and get the liquid strain.

~Adam

https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f12/dry-yeast-liquid-yeast-equivalents-114424/
Be sure to explore the linked external pages in some replies on this thread.

I used to exclusively use liquid yeast, believing them to be superior. I have since discovered that an excellent beer can be made with dry yeast. So far I have limited my use to the safale 05 & 04 strains. I am thiinking of trying the T-58 for a trippel soon though. I live in FL in the country, and buying liquid yeast nearly year round entails mail order with ice packs and overnight delivery, so its really dang expensive. Dry yeast is far less finicky, and far more convenient. If I am brewing a special style, I will pony up the extra cash. If I had a well stocked LHBS I would definitely be using the liquid stuff. I hate spending $30 for overnight shipping. Amounts to about $50 with yeast for two vials, with ice packs and shipping.

I've been trying to build a yeast library, but so far been a little too chicken to repitch any. Not to the point where I want to start doing cell counts on a microscope.

Where did your FG end up with the 1968? I used a mix of s04/s05 packs for mine and ended at 1.010

TD
 
I thought I read that 1968 was WLP 007 not 002, and that was also the same as safale s04.

Anyway, due to brain fart, I had three packs of aging yeast I used when I brewed. Two packs s05, one pack s04. I rehydrated in wort and pitched all three packs for my 11 gal batch.

TD

USO4 is Whitbread, which is Wyeast 1099, which is WLP 007..

It's stones house strain.

London ESB 1968, isn't in dry form, and it's a house yeast of several breweries. 3F is one.. Sweetwater is another I can confirm of. Flocc's so well and it's clean and gives a nice profile to the malt base that it holds well against whatever you toss at it.

Be aware, it needs a D rest at end of fermentation... and will flocc out easily if you keep it too cool.
 
FATC1TY said:
USO4 is Whitbread, which is Wyeast 1099, which is WLP 007..

It's stones house strain.

London ESB 1968, isn't in dry form, and it's a house yeast of several breweries. 3F is one.. Sweetwater is another I can confirm of. Flocc's so well and it's clean and gives a nice profile to the malt base that it holds well against whatever you toss at it.

Be aware, it needs a D rest at end of fermentation... and will flocc out easily if you keep it too cool.

I thought 1968 and S-04 were Equivalent. Lower attenuating strains with the englishy fruity character.
 
Whitbred is an English strain as well and a popular one at that.

London esb is close but not the same strain.
 
FATC1TY said:
USO4 is Whitbread, which is Wyeast 1099, which is WLP 007..

It's stones house strain.

London ESB 1968, isn't in dry form, and it's a house yeast of several breweries. 3F is one.. Sweetwater is another I can confirm of. Flocc's so well and it's clean and gives a nice profile to the malt base that it holds well against whatever you toss at it.

Be aware, it needs a D rest at end of fermentation... and will flocc out easily if you keep it too cool.

Thanks for the clarification!!

TD
 
If I had a well stocked LHBS I would definitely be using the liquid stuff. I hate spending $30 for overnight shipping.

Are you in a homebrew club? Exchange some yeast locally?

Local brewery? Lots of free yeast!! Just ask! I nailed down quite a few recipes using brewery donated WLP001. Beers would be fermenting in 4 hours with a large pitch of slurry!

I thought 1968 and S-04 were Equivalent. Lower attenuating strains with the englishy fruity character.

As mentioned above, NOT the same strain! S-04 is a pretty highly attenuating strain!

I used to exclusively use liquid yeast, believing them to be superior. I have since discovered that an excellent beer can be made with dry yeast.

There's a lot of "to each his own" in this one. Your own is shipping...my own is flavor and consistency. I got around that buy using brewery yeast when I was getting into homebrew seriously.

Cheers all!
~Adam
 
AOD said:
Are you in a homebrew club? Exchange some yeast locally?

Local brewery? Lots of free yeast!! Just ask! I nailed down quite a few recipes using brewery donated WLP001. Beers would be fermenting in 4 hours with a large pitch of slurry!

As mentioned above, NOT the same strain! S-04 is a pretty highly attenuating strain!

There's a lot of "to each his own" in this one. Your own is shipping...my own is flavor and consistency. I got around that buy using brewery yeast when I was getting into homebrew seriously.

Cheers all!
~Adam

Yep, no homebrew club locally that trades yeast. Local brewery, strike two, google it. My zip is 32159. There is a retirement community nearby with a club but am ineligible for that. Nearest club an hour drive or more. Count my sub 10 mpg and that makes up for yeast trading in shipping costs right there.

It's not a price thing to me, but I find a point of diminishing returns. I don't find that liquid yeast makes "better" beer than dry. However, there are times when when the style of beer I am making mandate a special yeast, so I pony up for the liquid yeast.

I don't want to make this any more into a yeast war than it is. I'm just saying that for a country guy like me without a LHBS more than 75 miles away, and living in HOT territory where shipping and handling is a real factor, that dry yeast is a real option. If you have been a naysayer to dry yeast like I have been, I dare you to try it out for one brew next time and see how either safale S04 or S05 work for you. Otherwise, try ordering two vials with overnight shipping and see if you still have same opinion. Maybe not spot on for a clone brew, but still produce great beer. Dry yeast has come a long way is all I'm saying

I recently brewed up a arrogant bastard style brew. This called for the Stone house yeast, WLP007, I am told. I had one older vial, and made a multi step starter, I later realized that this is the SAME yeast as safale S04 dry! I spent time and money on an unnecessary starter when I could've just pitched dry yeast.

Before I built my Brutus rig and started doing 11 gal batches, it was easier to use 1-2 vials for a 5 gal batch, without using expedited s&h. It's much more important with larger batch sizes to have adequate pitch rates, or at least, inadequate pitch rates seem far more problematic with a bigger batch.

TD
 
I put this in beersmith, scaled up to 12gal and now the IBU/SG ratio is a little off. I'm getting 67.2IBU and 1.063 SG. What should I do? Should I cut back the first wort hops or the 15min addition until I get 63? Should I just increase the gravity? Both?
 
It is probably from your gravity being a couple points low. If you're okay with that I would not even mess with the hops, Given the very small difference in IBUs
 
I'm guessing this has been addressed somewhere in here, but my Citra is 14.1 aa. Should I adjust via beersmith or just follow the recipe?
 
With this recipe, how long did you guys let your bottles condition? Mine have been at two weeks now and they still aren't fully carbonated. I did cold crash my beer for 1-2 days, could that be the reason that there's not enough yeast in the bottles?
 
Brewed this yesterday during a double batch day.

Got all the numbers pretty much in a lazy brewing day. Got 6 gallons of trub free crap at 1.065, and calculated 72 IBU's.

Aerated it with pure o2, and pitched at low.. Checked it this morning in the chamber and it's going steady at 64*.
 
Brewed this last night for fathers day. 1.064 into the fermenter. The only issue I had was too much hops in my hop sock. I hope I don't have any noticeable utilization issues. I added the left over 1/4oz at flame out to compensate a little.

Thanks for the recipe skeez!
 
drank my first bottle last night and got what seemed like a punch in the mouth of grapefruit. Not what I was expecting, but then again I don't know what I was expecting as I have never had ZD.

I liked it and can't imagine it will last long. Want to give it another few days of conditioning and then a couple of weeks to age and then see what it is.
 
I have this ready to move to secondary, but alas I have no Citra left and neither of my LHBS have any (not sure when they'll have more). I have 2 oz of Simcoe leaf and a 1/2lb of CTZ pellet. Would the piney properties of these two overpower the citrus essence of the beer? I was thinking maybe an oz of Simcoe and .5 oz of CTZ pellet for 10 days.
 
I have this ready to move to secondary, but alas I have no Citra left and neither of my LHBS have any (not sure when they'll have more). I have 2 oz of Simcoe leaf and a 1/2lb of CTZ pellet. Would the piney properties of these two overpower the citrus essence of the beer? I was thinking maybe an oz of Simcoe and .5 oz of CTZ pellet for 10 days.


I would just do the Simcoe if you want to add something CTZ might not be that great, a bit overpowering I think, but it's your beer!
 
From michigan to iowa for weekend.. Thought it would be a great idea to stop.. Last batch bottled and ready to sell on saturday 6/15 and sold out yesterday.. But lucked out the party store had a case left! Now i can compare!

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Well I brewed this on the 15th and I have 12 gallons sitting in the fermenter. I hit 1.070 OG and used WL002. Now when it comes time to dry hop I am going back and forth. Do I just toss 6oz in the primary or should I split it up between 2 secondary’s and dry hop in the carboys. Any thought?

I am also contemplating pellets or whole leaf. I have 14oz of whole leaf but only 6oz left of pellets so I figured I would use the whole leafs instead.
 
Well I brewed this on the 15th and I have 12 gallons sitting in the fermenter. I hit 1.070 OG and used WL002. Now when it comes time to dry hop I am going back and forth. Do I just toss 6oz in the primary or should I split it up between 2 secondary’s and dry hop in the carboys. Any thought?

I am also contemplating pellets or whole leaf. I have 14oz of whole leaf but only 6oz left of pellets so I figured I would use the whole leafs instead.

Whole leaf is so much cleaner and easier to use, and I personally think the flavor is better myself.

I'd probably split the batch if you have the ability, and dry hop them separate. 6 ounces of whole leaf in the primary is a helluva lot of leaf.

Keep in mind also, loss from leaf absorption. So depending on your volumes, pellets might be best if you can cold crash them down really well.

I keg, so I toss leaf in there, and when the level gets low enough in the keg, which happens pretty soon, the leaf hops will drain into the keg and leave me all that sweet hoppy goodness.
 
Whole leaf is so much cleaner and easier to use, and I personally think the flavor is better myself.

I'd probably split the batch if you have the ability, and dry hop them separate. 6 ounces of whole leaf in the primary is a helluva lot of leaf.

Keep in mind also, loss from leaf absorption. So depending on your volumes, pellets might be best if you can cold crash them down really well.

I keg, so I toss leaf in there, and when the level gets low enough in the keg, which happens pretty soon, the leaf hops will drain into the keg and leave me all that sweet hoppy goodness.

I do have the ability to split it into 6 gallon batches that was the original plan. Transfer into two secondary’s (carboys) adds 3 oz for 10 days, with the last 3 via cold crash, and then transfer into two corny kegs. Let them sit for a week on 12lbs of C02 and then enjoy :mug:.

I have only dry hopped once, this is only my third brew, and I used pellets. They were easy to use and cleaned up nicely after cold crashing. Now I have more leaf than pellets so I thought I might as-well use the leaf. The only reason why I have leafs is because I picked them up purely to be used on the Blichmann Hoprocket. 1lb made more economical sense than just a few ounces. Hopefully that adds to intense aroma.

I don't really want to dry hop in the keg and If I wanted more hoppy goodness I will just use the Hoprocket as a randel.
 
Just kegged half of my 10 gallon batch and it tastes amazing! This is the 5th zombie dust batch I've done, but this was my first time doing all-grain (and doing a 10 gallon batch). I'm very happy it turned out so well, even know I mashed too high. The dry hops really do make this beer. Hopefully it's ready to tap on Sunday when we brew up a porter. Thanks again for the recipe, Skeez.
 
slowsupratt said:
I do have the ability to split it into 6 gallon batches that was the original plan. Transfer into two secondary’s (carboys) adds 3 oz for 10 days, with the last 3 via cold crash, and then transfer into two corny kegs. Let them sit for a week on 12lbs of C02 and then enjoy :mug:.

I have only dry hopped once, this is only my third brew, and I used pellets. They were easy to use and cleaned up nicely after cold crashing. Now I have more leaf than pellets so I thought I might as-well use the leaf. The only reason why I have leafs is because I picked them up purely to be used on the Blichmann Hoprocket. 1lb made more economical sense than just a few ounces. Hopefully that adds to intense aroma.

I don't really want to dry hop in the keg and If I wanted more hoppy goodness I will just use the Hoprocket as a randel.

Why adverse to doing the last step of dry hop in the keg? If you are going to cold crash as keg you can do it all at once.
Use a mesh hop bag, fill it with your leaf hops. Use a ss hose clamp and attach it via the extra string in the mesh bag to the pressure relief valve. It hangs in the beer doesn't get a single particle of hops in the beer and it carbs cools and crashes all at once. Ready to serve with less moving it around losing hop aroma and kickin more oxygen into the beer.
 
Bottling this right now. Did the PM recipe with an OG of 1.062 and FG of 1.016. Sample tastes great and it smells awesome

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