Witbier Hoegaarden Witbier Clone - Pierre Celis White

I made this reciepe its been in my keg for a week now and I tried a glass all i can taste is corriander especially in the after taste I can barely drink it and the body seems like water... I was thinking of adding honey to sweeten it up. Any advice would be apprecitated.

QuebecCity said:

I made this reciepe its been in my keg for a week now and I tried a glass all i can taste is corriander especially in the after taste I can barely drink it and the body seems like water... I was thinking of adding honey to sweeten it up. Any advice would be apprecitated.

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If you used the amounts as given in the OP's recipe it will be coriander assertive, but not so much it's all one can taste. Perhaps your coriander is more potent than the OP used. Or you simply don't like coriander.

I always use coriander from the Indian spice store, they are slightly oblong shaped, not round, and have a lot more flavor than the round (domestic) ones. A very light toast before crushing (mortar) improves the flavor IMO. I only use 7 gram (1/4 oz) in the boil, none in "secondary." For a more subtle approach I only use half of that, 3.5 gr. Same amounts (7 or 3.5 gr) for the bitter orange peel, which I grind in the coffee grinder to a fine powder (spinner type) and steep in some hot wort for 10 minutes before adding at flameout. For a bolder approach I double those amounts (14 gr). Again, I've never used "dry spicing" after fermentation in this style, but it can be done successfully, giving more aroma (and flavor).

Why is the beer's body watery? What was your OG, FG, and mash temp? Did something go wrong during the boil/fermentation perhaps?

I hit the right mash temp and followed the instructions. I think my scale is the problem the battery was low I think the measurement was off. I added the corriander to the boil and to the secondary. today I tasted it and it seems to have quieted down maybe the batch needs time to sit. I already have another batch ready for secondary transfer I'm gonna leave out the corriander addition see how it goes. As for the og and fg I was right on. I'm using a floating hydrometer maybe it's off its a cheap one... I'm no pro at brewing but I've done 12 batches and every time I hit my numbers and never had a bad batch nock on wood. How long should I age the beer in a leg before it's good to drink? Kinda put it in a keg charged it up to 30 psi and rolled 6 times over two days the 5th day I turned it down 7 psi and she was ready to go.

7 grams crushed coriander seeds is about 4 level teaspoons (20ml). You used double (14gr, 0.5 oz) in the boil then another "double load" (14gr/0.5 oz) in the secondary.

Most hydrometers float
Calibrate it against water, it should be 1.000. a .002 deviation is common.

Witbier should be consumed fresh and be cloudy. No need for aging, although after 6 months it should still be fine, but will taste differently, the aromatics disappear.

Yours should be prime right now. I force carbonate and roll at 40psi (~10-20 mins) until she doesn't absorb anymore. She's cold from crashing before racking. 24hrs later bring it down to 10psi. A bit foamy but perfect after a few hours until she sputters.

Hmm, time to brew another Wit. Wife loves it. I use a bit different recipe though.

I'm the OP. I always used dry already prepared bitter orange and coriander.

I believe it was Tones brand from Wal-Mart.

Anyhow it was never over the top.

I would have to agree a little time for the beer to age and to settle. Note, settling will have lots more coriander in the first few if not the first several.

You said you kegged right? Let time do the trick, pull a few after a week two weeks. Note the impact of settling.

Another thing, I never try to get every drop out of the carboy or fermenter. It just gets crap that you don't want in the beer. Also, settling or aging in the secondary is good idea, as is not racking too low.

I hope the coriander settles out or mellows a bit for you.

Also, if you think you made it right. Don't panic and add honey or other stuff give it a little time. Ok

I never pick up the trub off the bottom and I used dried out orange peel I'm positive I used too much corriander... The lesson here don't trust batteries from dollar store do yourself a favor and pay the 10 bucks just for that rare circle battery. As for the beer the foam smells very strong of corriander but after 5 mins it settles down. I tried to mix a pint with a bit orange juice. I even tried raspberry juice guess I'm SOL lol. It wasn't bad but it wasn't good either lol. Hopefully my second batch will be better.

QuebecCity said:

I never pick up the trub off the bottom and I used dried out orange peel I'm positive I used too much corriander... The lesson here don't trust batteries from dollar store do yourself a favor and pay the 10 bucks just for that rare circle battery. As for the beer the foam smells very strong of corriander but after 5 mins it settles down. I tried to mix a pint with a bit orange juice. I even tried raspberry juice guess I'm SOL lol. It wasn't bad but it wasn't good either lol. Hopefully my second batch will be better.

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Sorry you don't care for the coriander, or the amount of it. May make a great pairing with an Indian stew, or Mulligatawny.

Nothing wrong with batteries from the dollar store. They may not last as long, but the price is low enough to replace them 4x and you're still ahead. If you want to sponsor Target go ahead. I just order them off eBay, like 4-12 of them, depending on future needs, and they run less than a $.70 each, mailed. The last batch was Energizers and the use by date on them is 4-5 years into the future, or even longer. Speaking of, time to order more...

Hint: have a calibration weight or some object with known weight, like a SS elbow or so, and check when in doubt.

If you can let this age, the spice should tame down a bit.

I once dropped a mesh screen into my beer only to have it totally dissolve and taste horribly metallic. A month later I decided to dump every bottle. So I said what the heck, I will try to drink one as I do the dumping.... ....well I'm glad I did that. It tasted fine after a month of sitting. I was really shocked.

I hope time bodes your beer well.

Since you're not in a hurry, I agree, let it age out, try again until it's where you like it. The first part of a new pull may get some slurry. Drink or discard.

Schlenkerla said:

I once dropped a mesh screen into my beer only to have it totally dissolve and taste horribly metallic. [...]

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That's amazing! But just the thought of drinking that makes me cringe.

IslandLizard said:

That's amazing! But just the thought of drinking that makes me cringe.

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At the time it was utter shock and disbelief. I dumped the reminants of the carboy into a sink with stainless steel strainer to look for it. Thinking it was impossible to have dissolved. And yes, it was the worse thing I ever tasted. How it ever fixed itself is amazing. I was kind of hard to still drink it, knowing what happened. Lucky it was only two gallons.

subscribed thanks for the recipe!

Subscribed

Subscribed.
I am working on an Einstok Icelandic White Ale clone. The flavor and body are a little different from Hoegaarden, but this looks great as is, and should also be a great starting point to make changes. Thanks @Schlenkerla

You're welcome guys!!! - Post pics and results!!

Brewed recipe as posted, except LHBS only had flaked red wheat, so I got reg white wheat malt. I did forget the spices until the wort was chilled down to about 90deg, so I quickly boiled them in 2cup of water and poured that in before I pitched. I managed to hit 1.046 OG, so I was pretty pleased given my relative inexperience with all grain and only having a 5gal cooler to mash in.
One other change: I used WYeast 3942, as I'm trying for an even crisper, cleaner taste (working on Einstok Icelandic White Ale clone). Will definitely post pics.

Well after 4 extract kits, I'm ready to give AG a try. Summer is coming, so I'm thinking this is the right recipe to try. I've read the entire thread, and I have a couple of questions for the OP. Any help would be appreciated.

First, I understood the recipe, except I didn't get where to find the sparge amounts and temp.

Second, would I still want to cold crash after secondary, or would that remove the haze?

Looking forward to trying this, thanks

Scturo said:

Well after 4 extract kits, I'm ready to give AG a try. Summer is coming, so I'm thinking this is the right recipe to try. I've read the entire thread, and I have a couple of questions for the OP. Any help would be appreciated.

First, I understood the recipe, except I didn't get where to find the sparge amounts and temp.

Second, would I still want to cold crash after secondary, or would that remove the haze?

Looking forward to trying this, thanks

Click to expand...

The amount of sparge water needed depends on the volume of your first runnings (lauter) after the mash. The volume of your first runnings plus your sparge water volume should equal your pre-boil volume. You can use your recipe program, such as BeerSmith or an online calculator such as Brew365 to calculate your volumes. Unless you BIAB, batch sparging twice with equal volumes is the most efficient. Read up on mashing so you understand the process.

The temperature of the mash is very important, a few degrees can make a big, big difference. The temp of the sparge water is not critical but it is advised to keep the temperature of the mash during sparging under 170°F, and keep its pH under 6.0, to prevent extracting tannins.

Your water minerals play a strong role in how your beer turns out. Read up on water too, such as Bru'n Water. If you don't know your tap water composition, you could use RO water from the machine in a local supermarket or Walmart @ around $0.39 a gallon and add the minerals (brewing salts) Bru'n Water calculates. Not a bad idea for your first few AG brews.

Added:
Forgot to say, secondaries are not needed or even recommended unless you want to bulk age your beer for longer than 6-8 weeks (e.g. sours) or in some cases when adding fruit, to do a real secondary fermentation. The main drawbacks on using secondaries are increased risk of oxidation and infection. Generally, ignore kit instructions hinting to secondaries and read HBT instead.

You can cold crash your (wheat beer) primary after 2-3 weeks, after fermentation is done and the beer has had time to condition out. It's main purpose is to drop out (most of) the yeast. The proteins in the wheat also cause the haze. To create a permanent haze you could add 2 tablespoons of (wheat) flour, made into a slurry with a little water, at the end of the boil.

Enjoy your first AG, it can make a big change in your beer, usually for the better!

Thank you for the response islandlizard. That sounds like some good advice, I will be sure to follow and report back here.

Scturo said:

Well after 4 extract kits, I'm ready to give AG a try. Summer is coming, so I'm thinking this is the right recipe to try. I've read the entire thread, and I have a couple of questions for the OP. Any help would be appreciated.

First, I understood the recipe, except I didn't get where to find the sparge amounts and temp.

Second, would I still want to cold crash after secondary, or would that remove the haze?

Looking forward to trying this, thanks

Click to expand...

Mash Schedule
-------------

Mash Name: Simple Two Step

Total Grain Lbs: 9.00
Total Water Qts: 7.50 - Before Additional Infusions
Total Water Gal: 1.88 - Before Additional Infusions

Tun Thermal Mass: 0.00
Grain Temp: 60.00 F


Step Rest Start Stop Heat Infuse Infuse Infuse
Step Name Time Time Temp Temp Type Temp Amount Ratio
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Protein Step
Start 0 minutes
Stop 15 minutes
Infusion Temp 124F - 120F
Strike Water Infuse Temp 139F
Amount 7.50 Quarts
Ratio 0.83

Sachrification Step
Start 0
Stop 45
Infusion Temp 158F - 152F
Infuse 210F
Amount 6.80
Ratio 1.59

Sparge 4.5 gallons at 170F (The original reciped called for this. - I somehow left that out too, not sure why.)


Total Water Qts: 14.30 - After Additional Infusions
Total Water Gal: 3.57 - After Additional Infusions
Total Mash Volume Gal: 4.29 - After Additional Infusions

All temperature measurements are degrees Fahrenheit.
All infusion amounts are in Quarts.
All infusion ratios are Quarts/Lbs.

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Are you planning to keg and force carbonate? Then yes. Cold Crashing is the norm.

If you plan to prime and bottle, then no.

The original recipe calls for Irish Moss to remove protein, the haze should remain from the yeast itself. Somehow I missed that or intentionally left it out. I don't think it matters. Protein or yeast haze, either way it won't be super clear. That's ok, its the style.

One thing to note about sparge volumes, aside from the avoidance of tannin extraction is your boil times and evaporation rates. You don't want too much volume when the boil is done. Your OG would then be low. You need to watch and learn through trial and error to dial this in while brewing. Typically its about a 1 gallon per hour loss. If you are too low volume-wise you can add bottled water if needed. (Post Boil)

Have a little extra water handy about 1 or 2 gallons until you know better.

Use a tape measure or aluminum yard stick to measure wort depth in your kettle if you are not doing this already.

A smart phone app that works well is Brewzor. You plug in the kettle diameter and I think there is inputs for dead space volume too. It works good and is free. All you need to know how many inches deep it needs to be starting out and watch the depth change over time. Try to keep the boil vigor consistant. The vigor can change the loss rate. A lot of people have high BTU banjo-burners that really heat water fast.

Its trial and error, but if you are cognizant whats happening during the boil and know what to do at the end of the boil you will be ok. I typically have a plan to have a little extra volume. Up to 1/2 gallon for racking losses and avoiding getting into trub.

Good Luck and Plan Well. If you do that, your brew session will go good. I typically take it easy on the beers until you are at mid boil. Keep your wits about you. Its also not a bad idea to write the steps out, with action items to cross off as you go. If things don't go well as planned you won't be as flustered or forget a step if you have that to fall back on and get your process bearings back in mind. OK

If you want a cool recipe calculator try http://www.malt.io Its free.

One of the few things it leaves out is grain absorption loss. Its 0.1 gallons water per pound of grain (10%). You can add this to the sparge rate or just know this as an additional step required or comp for it in the mash sparge ratio.

IslandLizard said:

The amount of sparge water needed depends on the volume of your first runnings (lauter) after the mash. The volume of your first runnings plus your sparge water volume should equal your pre-boil volume. You can use your recipe program, such as BeerSmith or an online calculator such as Brew365 to calculate your volumes. Unless you BIAB, batch sparging twice with equal volumes is the most efficient. Read up on mashing so you understand the process.

The temperature of the mash is very important, a few degrees can make a big, big difference. The temp of the sparge water is not critical but it is advised to keep the temperature of the mash during sparging under 170°F, and keep its pH under 6.0, to prevent extracting tannins.

Your water minerals play a strong role in how your beer turns out. Read up on water too, such as Bru'n Water. If you don't know your tap water composition, you could use RO water from the machine in a local supermarket or Walmart @ around $0.39 a gallon and add the minerals (brewing salts) Bru'n Water calculates. Not a bad idea for your first few AG brews.

Added:
Forgot to say, secondaries are not needed or even recommended unless you want to bulk age your beer for longer than 6-8 weeks (e.g. sours) or in some cases when adding fruit, to do a real secondary fermentation. The main drawbacks on using secondaries are increased risk of oxidation and infection. Generally, ignore kit instructions hinting to secondaries and read HBT instead.

You can cold crash your (wheat beer) primary after 2-3 weeks, after fermentation is done and the beer has had time to condition out. It's main purpose is to drop out (most of) the yeast. The proteins in the wheat also cause the haze. To create a permanent haze you could add 2 tablespoons of (wheat) flour, made into a slurry with a little water, at the end of the boil.

Enjoy your first AG, it can make a big change in your beer, usually for the better!

Click to expand...

BTW - This recipe calls for a secondary for adding the last bit of corriander.

Otherwise, this is pretty good advice.

The wort chiller you use also helps make sure you don't get DMS (vege taste) in your beer provided you get to 140 pretty quickly. Also this prevents proteins from going back into solution that eventually leads to chill haze. Have a thermometer in the boil at the end. Chill fast. Stir continuously as your wort chiller is pulling heat out of your wort. I do this religiously until I'm below 140. Then I'm doing it every minute or so.

Thank you Schlenkerla for the info. I work in a lab by trade, so I will follow all the advice as closely as possible.

Schlenkerla said:

BTW - This recipe calls for a secondary for adding the last bit of corriander.

Otherwise, this is pretty good advice.

The wort chiller you use also helps make sure you don't get DMS (vege taste) in your beer provided you get to 140 pretty quickly. Also this prevents proteins from going back into solution that eventually leads to chill haze. Have a thermometer in the boil at the end. Chill fast. Stir continuously as your wort chiller is pulling heat out of your wort. I do this religiously until I'm below 140. Then I'm doing it every minute or so.

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I really dont see the benefit of transferring to a secondary vs. adding the coriander at the same time the recipe says to move it to another vessel.

tmendick said:

I really dont see the benefit of transferring to a secondary vs. adding the coriander at the same time the recipe says to move it to another vessel.

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It's like dry hopping. It's common thing one does with adding spices. The main difference is flavor vs aroma.

Right you don't need to transfer it to another vessel, transferring doesn't add anything over putting hops spices etc. in the primary at the same time you would put it in the secondary

tmendick said:

Right you don't need to transfer it to another vessel, transferring doesn't add anything over putting hops spices etc. in the primary at the same time you would put it in the secondary

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Yeah if you want, but that's what I do. It also opens up my primary to get another batch of something going. The recipe I provided was written a long time ago. 1997. That may have been the norm and might still be at Hoegaarten. Charlie Papazian got this from them at World Beer Cup in 1996 or earlier.

I have two 8.5 primaries and four 5 gallon secondaries.

Definitely not trying to be a D***head just throwing it out here that you don't NEED to secondary it

tmendick said:

Definitely not trying to be a D***head just throwing it out here that you don't NEED to secondary it

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I didn't think that you were being one. You're correct though. To me its personal preference. I rarely secondary after my wife popped a kid out. Back then it was mainly for capacity for brewing. I brewed every week, sometimes twice a week. To this day I want my beers to age about 3 weeks before kegging.

Its good for big beers too. If you want to age them longer than a few months.

Finally got a chance to brew this recipe. It was my first AG to boot. Everything went according to plan for the most part. Took my water profile to my brew store guy. My profile showed a PH of 5.78. He recommended 1 oz acidulated malt to lower the PH. Mash PH came out to 5.1, so I'll leave out the 1 oz next time.

The only hiccup was that I had to extend the boil time to 90 mins due to slow evaporation. My OG came out at 1.048, which was very close.

Only other thing was I added 0.5oz of fresh Kumquat peel to the spice additions, my bro has a tree and he's been asking me to use some in a beer.

We'll see how this turns out. I really enjoyed brewing this one, thanks to everyone who helped me with advice.:rockin:

Edit: Bottled this today and the FG was close at 1.009, and the taste was spot on. Looking forward to drinking this.

Had first taste after 10 days. The taste is excellent. I did slightly over carbonated, but perfect otherwise. Thanks for the great recipe,

Two weeks, such a great recipe.

Have brewed two batchs with Mangrove Jacks m21 yeast ,tastes good before racking for secendary fermentation.But both of them become a little acidic after secendary process,especially after bottling for 1 week.What happend about them?

I made this last week. It took a few days to get going but has been bubbling away nicely for 4 days now. Can't wait to try this one.

Freeze said:

Have brewed two batchs with Mangrove Jacks m21 yeast ,tastes good before racking for secendary fermentation.But both of them become a little acidic after secendary process,especially after bottling for 1 week.What happend about them?

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I tried with MJ21 too. The result was quite the same as you. Switched to 3942 or 3944, taste very good pretty much like Hoegaarden. Strong banana aroma. So my advice is to change your yeast strain.

This recipe is good. My beer turned out pretty much like Hoegaarden but next time I'd add more orange peel to 1oz and reduce coriander seed to 0.7oz at boil without secondary fermentation.

Time to brew this again. Will see if I can improve the mouth feel this time.

Well here is the beer. 14 days grain to glass, and it came out perfect.

I tried to improve the mouthfeel, and overall taste from my first try. And I was able to do it. I mashed at 150f my first try. This time I mashed at 156f. I also tried to copy the OP's water profile. This all resulted in a softer, fuller mouth feel. This is one of my favorite recipes to brew. Thanks to the OP for the recipe, cheers

Looking forward to brewing this in a few days. Would love a couple of questions answered if anyone's got a second.

1. it was asked but i never saw it answered- for BIAB are the rice hulls necessary? It would seem no to me, but I don't need to leave it out if it does something other than help the sparge.

2. Is the consensus still to go with a step mash or will a single infusion at 152ish do the trick. just trying to simplify.

thanks cheers looking forward to it. my previous attempts at a wit were foiled by ferment temps in the mid 70's. Finally got a fermentation chest to hit those mid 60's. should make all the difference.