First IPA Recipe - looking for input/advice

Hey all -
I'm working on my first AIPA recipe and am looking for any advice or input you might have on this recipe.

This is a 5 gallon extract recipe and goes as follows:

Expected OG: 1.066
Target FG: 1.017

Projected ABV: 6.4%
62.1 IBU

Steeping Grains:
0.75lb Caramel/Crystal Malt 40L (Crushed)
0.25lb Caramel/Crystal Malt 80L (Crushed)

Place grains in grain bag and steep in 2.5 gal water for 30 minutes at 155.
Remove grains and add approx 1 gal water to get to 3-3.5 gal in kettle, bring to boil.

Malt:
9lb Pale LME

Boil for 60 min with the following hop schedule:
1.5oz Galena pellets at 30min
1.5oz Cascade pellets at 30 min
1.5oz Cascade pellets at 15min
0.5oz Willamette pellets at 15min
1.5oz Willamette pellets at flameout

Yeast:
Wyeast 1056 - American Ale or possibly Wyeast 1272 - American Ale II (undecided and would appreciate any yeast input)

Rack to secondary after 14 days in primary and dry hop with 2.0oz Summit for 14 days and bottle with 4oz corn sugar.

How does it look?
Thanks in advance for looking.

I'd suggest using about 3 pounds of LME at the beginning, and adding the rest of the LME at the end of the boil. That will help keep the beer lighter in color, with less of a "cooked extract" flavor.

I don't like a whole pound of crystal malt in an IPA, but if you like a sweeter IPA, it'll be fine- it's a personal preference.

I like more late addition hops, and less bittering hops (as it'll be bitter enough) and an IPA is all about hops flavor and aroma. I'd change up the recipe more like this:

1.oz Galena pellets at 60min
1.oz Cascade pellets at 20 min
1.oz Cascade pellets at 15min
1 Willamette pellets at 10min
1 oz cascade 5 minutes
1.5oz Willamette pellets at flameout

I've never dryhopped with summit, but if you like it that would be fine- 2 ounces of cascade/willamette would be my preference in that beer though.

My suggestions ....... others may disagree:

1) 1.060 is low for an IPA. Need to add fermentables. I would add a pound of table sugar, it will up the gravity by 9 points and lower the FG.

2) IPAs like to finish 'dry'. Reduce the crystal. Adding table sugar as in (1) will also help.

3) Drop the Willamette hops and replace with some 'C' hops.

Yooper said:

I'd suggest using about 3 pounds of LME at the beginning, and adding the rest of the LME at the end of the boil. That will help keep the beer lighter in color, with less of a "cooked extract" flavor.

I don't like a whole pound of crystal malt in an IPA, but if you like a sweeter IPA, it'll be fine- it's a personal preference.

I'd change up the recipe more like this:

1.oz Galena pellets at 60min
1.oz Cascade pellets at 20 min
1.oz Cascade pellets at 15min
1 Willamette pellets at 10min
1 oz cascade 5 minutes
1.5oz Willamette pellets at flameout

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Fine advice, but I would divvy up that Cascade between 10, 5 , and DH with the Summit. Add all of the Willamette at Flameout.

1/2 lb. of Crystal 40 should be more than enough.

For the yeast, I strongly prefer 1056 to 1272 given your two options. 1056 is cleaner and will accentuate the hops more in a good dry IPA sort of way. 1272 accentuates more cloying sweet malt flavors and an over the top juicy fruitiness from the hops IMO.

Thanks for the input everyone, I really appreciate the great suggestions. I'm going to take some time and digest all the comments and will post an updated recipe for further review. I think that this type of back and forth is what separates good homebrew from great homebrew. It is definitely a great exercise for a pretty new brewer. Who needs classes and degrees when you've got the amount of knowledge and the willingness to help that the HBT forums provide. Best money I have spent so far on brewing has been my membership to HBT.

Yooper said:

I'd suggest using about 3 pounds of LME at the beginning, and adding the rest of the LME at the end of the boil. That will help keep the beer lighter in color, with less of a "cooked extract" flavor.

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Yooper - a question about the late boil addition of LME. I have read that LME needs 15 min of boil to sterilize it so do you suggest adding the remaining 6 pounds with 15 minutes left or earlier?

I would add 20% of the extract at 15 minutes left in the boil... Add the rest at the boil start. This is an extract beer so you want the hops to boil in a good concentration of wort, not plain water (or extremely diluted wort) for 45 minutes. You'll never get a really pale beer either way, and some melanoidin formation will be good here. Just don't scorch the extract and you'll be fine. Stir it completely in off the heat when you make each addition.

Spicemon1972 said:

Yooper - a question about the late boil addition of LME. I have read that LME needs 15 min of boil to sterilize it so do you suggest adding the remaining 6 pounds with 15 minutes left or earlier?

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Boiling doesn't sterilize (not at 212 F). What you need to do is sanitize, which is killing the majority of bugs, reducing their population so low that they don't out-compete the slower growing yeast.

To effectively sanitize something, you need to get it's bulk temperature to 145 F for 20 minutes, or 160 F for 10 seconds. Boiling is not necessary, so you could add the extract after the boil is complete and still sanitize it. The hotter the temperature, the easier it is to dissolve.

If the LME is coming out of a sealed container, it will already be sanitized. You can just wipe the container with sanitizer and pour straight into the fermenter. This way you will likely not get it fully dissolved to get a decent gravity reading, but the yeast will find it and mix it in for you.

Calder said:

Boiling is not necessary, so you could add the extract after the boil is complete and still sanitize it. The hotter the temperature, the easier it is to dissolve.

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Exactly. As long as it's over ~160, the extract will be pasteurized by the hot wort, and that's all ya need. When I add LME @ flameout, I stir it in and let it steep for ~10 mins to ensure that it's pasteurized.

More eloquently speaking...

Boiling in water for fifteen minutes will kill most vegetative bacteria and inactivate viruses, but boiling is ineffective against prions and many bacterial and fungal spores; therefore boiling is unsuitable for sterilization. However, since boiling does kill most vegetative microbes and viruses, it is useful for reducing viable levels if no better method is available. Boiling is a simple process, and is an option available to most people, requiring only water, enough heat, and a container that can withstand the heat.

Temperature, though, is not the only concern. Time also factors into the situation. The lower the temperature, the more time is needed at that temperature to effectively kill of bacteria.

Prions... Spongiform enceph-ale-itis?

NordeastBrewer77 said:

Exactly. As long as it's over ~160, the extract will be pasteurized by the hot wort, and that's all ya need. When I add LME @ flameout, I stir it in and let it steep for ~10 mins to ensure that it's pasteurized.

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Got it - thanks for the explanation.

Hey guys new brewer here.. I am currently making a simple entry level kit of Muntons American Light ... it's very simple .. Add hot water to extract and sugar , fill to 23 liters and let fermentation begin.. I want know when can I drink this stuff without it being too green? The guy at the store said to wait as long as I am for my dark ale I'm doin right now (3 months) but I'm thirsty .. (going to the cabin in july and wanna bring a keg) .. The instruction say I can drink it right away basically... Will it taste like garbage after 5-6 weeks?

i've made one ipa with cascade and willamette, just because i had a lot of them in my freezer. it turned out pretty good, wish i had used a bit more of each though. its not a bad combination, but its a little bit different from a typical AIPA, since the willamette is a variation of fuggle an english hop i think.

IPA's seem to be a pretty personal category, so while some might prefer less crystal, or more sugar and higher OG's, its not necessarily what you will enjoy. there are pretty standard hop schedules, and yours doesn't look bad, but the one somebody else recommended looks good too. basically i'm saying you can change up the grain bill to your liking without really deviating from the style, and all of them (within reason) will give you a good IPA

and as far as yeast goes, i usually stick to dry yeast for all of my beers just because it is cheaper and easier, but especially for an ipa i would just use s-05.

Ok, after considering all the comments (thanks again for all the insight and good advice) I have my recipe nailed down. I plan on brewing this in two weeks as soon as my 6 malt amber ale is out of the primary.
End of the World AIPA
This is a 5 gallon extract recipe and goes as follows:

Expected OG: 1.066
Target FG: 1.016

Projected ABV: 6.7%
59.4 IBU

Steeping Grains:
0.5lb Caramel/Crystal Malt 40L (Crushed)


Place grains in grain bag and steep in 1.5 gal water for 30 minutes at 155.
Remove grains and add approx 2 gal water to get to 3-3.5 gal in kettle, bring to boil.

Malt:
3lb Northern Brewer Light LME at start of boil
6lb Northern Brewer Light LME late addition (15 mins)

Boil for 60 min with the following hop schedule:
0.5oz Summit pellets at 60min
0.5oz Cascade pellets at 15 min
0.5oz Cascade pellets at 10 min
0.5oz Summit pellets at 5min
2.0oz Willamette pellets at flameout

Add 1 tsp Irish Moss at 15 min

Yeast:
Wyeast 1056 - American Ale - ferment at 66-68 degrees for 14 days.

Rack to secondary after 14 days in primary and dry hop with 1.0oz Summit for 14 more days then bottle with 4oz corn sugar priming sugar and allow to bottle condition for 2 weeks minimum.

Once brewed, bottled and tasted I will post again to let everyone know how it turned out. I think it will be a tasty, cleanly bitter and very hoppy little brew - can't wait to taste it.

Thanks to all, Cheers!

Are you topping off with plain water? If not, what is the benefit of adding 6 lbs of LME late as opposed to say 2 lbs? You could really get by with straight primary (no secondary) but that's up to you.

I would probably cut the crystal in half though if your batch size only is 2.5-3.5 gallons. And this is nitpicking, but I recommend dryhopping with more hops for less time. Otherwise it looks like a good recipe.

bobbrews said:

Are you topping off with plain water? If not, what is the benefit of adding 6 lbs of LME late as opposed to say 2 lbs? You could really get by with straight primary (no secondary) but that's up to you.

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I forgot to mention that I'm topping off with plain water to get to 5 gallons in the primary. So to get a good gravity I need the fermentables that the late addition LME brings to the party. I was going to use secondary to dry hop and to let the beer clear but with the Irish moss, I might be able to get away with doing it all in primary. Gotta think about that.

bobbrews said:

I would probably cut the crystal in half though if your batch size only is 2.5-3.5 gallons. And this is nitpicking, but I recommend dryhopping with more hops for less time. Otherwise it looks like a good recipe.

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As for the dry hops, what do you think about upping the Summit from 1oz to 2oz and do it for 7 days or would you suggests 1oz of Summit and 1oz of another tasty aroma hop that plays nice with Summit?

Let me know and thanks!

No, I meant what is the reasoning for adding 3 lbs early and 6 lbs late vs. 7 lbs early and 2 lbs late... or anything in between? How did you decide on your ratio?

The problem with topping off (an IPA especially) is that your 2.5 gal end batch diluted with 2.5 gal of plain top off water will be extremely weak, diluted, not hop-forward, and generally unflavorful when compared to a full volume boil IPA. This isn't simply fixable by adding more malt, or more hops, or employing a larger late addition of extract... though some naive brewers seem to think so.

Extract beers don't really require Irish Moss or extra special measures to clear up the beer. You'll be fine without any of that. Time/settling is the main thing. 1056 is medium floc, so cold crash for a few days and avoid agitation if you want something super clear. You can honestly skip the cold crash though and still end up with a clear beer. Don't forget you're diluting with 2.5 gal of clear water.

For the dryhop, it depends what you want. Dank, citrusy, fruity, tropical, earthy??

Bob - I'm trying to avoid the excess darkening of the wort and that "cooked extract" flavor by adding the majority of the LME late in the boil. (trying to keep my pale ale, well, pale...) Unfortunately I don't have a kettle big enough to do a full boil - hopefully I will in the near future - but at this time it is a moot point.

All good things. I would just like to see some more data on the topic of the recommended amount of extract to add late vs. early. The advice given to new brewers on late extract additions is so inconsistent. I wonder if a bulk amount added late affects the flavor/feel of the overall beer in any way at the expense of wort darkening and hop focus.

One thing to consider is doing a small, full volume batch. It's like I always say... I'd rather have 3 gallons of an excellent beer than 5 gallons of something mediocre.

You're right, the late addition info is confusing at best and almost contradictory sometimes. I think I might do a side by side comparison one of these days with all else held equal of adding all the extract right away vs a late addition like this one. Might make for some interesting results.
Thanks again for all the insight - every time I think I have something nailed down I find myself learning more from the experienced brewers like yourself. It's like peeling an onion, the deeper you go, the more layers there are.

Cheers!

The problem with topping off (an IPA especially) is that your 2.5 gal end batch diluted with 2.5 gal of plain top off water will be extremely weak, diluted, not hop-forward, and generally unflavorful when compared to a full volume boil IPA.

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Most extract kits are set up in such a way that you are topping off the wort with 2 gallons of water anyway. That being said I have not made an IPA yet (waiting for ingredients in transit), but other extracts I have made did not taste weak or unflavorful so I wouldn't worry about that.

I am sort of surprised you didn't get more recommendations to use US-05 instead of Wyeast 1056. My understanding is that they are the same yeast but dry is cheaper(even if you need 2 packets) and easier than making a starter.

Eliterunner1 said:

Most extract kits are set up in such a way that you are topping off the wort with 2 gallons of water anyway. That being said I have not made an IPA yet (waiting for ingredients in transit), but other extracts I have made did not taste weak or unflavorful so I wouldn't worry about that.

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I suggest doing some more reading on the subject. You're right, most extract kits do instruct to top off with plenty of water to make it easier for the beginner homebrewer. This isn't necessarily as bad for the overall malt character since enough malt is supplied to reach target OG with dilution already taken into account. However, it is bad for hop utilization. Your IBUs may be cut in half. And in the end, the total quality of the beer does suffer by topping off...especially for a pale extract recipe which lacks as much complexity as the same all-grain version.

bobbrews said:

I suggest doing some more reading on the subject. You're right, most extract kits do instruct to top off with plenty of water to make it easier for the beginner homebrewer. This isn't necessarily as bad for the overall malt character since enough malt is supplied to reach target OG with dilution already taken into account. However, it is bad for hop utilization. Your IBUs may be cut in half. And in the end, the total quality of the beer does suffer by topping off...especially for a pale extract recipe which lacks as much complexity as the same all-grain version.

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I think that my next upgrade will be to a kettle that can handle a full boil and get into some partial mash. Slowly working my way up to AG. Want a bit more experience with extract and process before I go there though. Thanks for all of the info Bob.

Spicemon1972 said:

I think that my next upgrade will be to a kettle that can handle a full boil and get into some partial mash. Slowly working my way up to AG. Want a bit more experience with extract and process before I go there though. Thanks for all of the info Bob.

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That's a good idea spicemon. I still do that to this day for convenience and complexity when I brew indoors.

I didn't see anything regarding a yeast starter. A true IPA needs a yeast starter.

Why is that?

Because healthy yeast equals better beer. There are not enough yeast cells in a vial of yeast for a true IPA.

I see, I only use dry and there is no need for a starter with dry yeast

You make a good point about the yeast - per BeerSmith, I will need a little over 224 billion cells and one smack pack advertises 100 billion cells. I haven't done any yeast starters yet and haven't really gotten into that process. What I'm wondering is whether or not pitching two smack packs would suffice instead of making a starter and potentially screwing it up. What do you think?
I chose 1056 because it is a clean ale yeast and I am right in the attenuation zone with this yeast at 74%.

Just use US-05 instead of 1056. Same strain but dry is less expensive and much much easier do use.

Spicemon1972 said:

You make a good point about the yeast - per BeerSmith, I will need a little over 224 billion cells and one smack pack advertises 100 billion cells. I haven't done any yeast starters yet and haven't really gotten into that process. What I'm wondering is whether or not pitching two smack packs would suffice instead of making a starter and potentially screwing it up. What do you think?
I chose 1056 because it is a clean ale yeast and I am right in the attenuation zone with this yeast at 74%.

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Probably you'd need three packages, without a starter, unless the yeast was extraordinarily fresh. They advertise "100 billion cells" and that is probably true, under optimum conditions with fresh yeast. But sometimes shipping and storage conditions aren't optimum and the yeast is a month or two old.

Check the yeast manufacturer's date, and if it's within just a couple of weeks, two might be just fine. Otherwise, make a starter and you'd be all set.

Looks like I'm going to have to do a starter then. I know that there is a stickie and several videos I can watch that will explain it very well.
I hate to admit this, but I have been tinkering with the recipe too based on what I have on hand for hops. It's a lot of fun getting into BeerSmith and learning how to work the program but it makes it way too bloody easy to play the "what if I did this" game. And for an endlessly tinkering fool like myself, that can be crippling.
I guess the only way to do this is to thank all of you for your patience, the well thought out advice and your experienced input, stop messing with the recipe, brew the damn beer next weekend (after figuring out how to get a starter going) and post back with whatever the final recipe wound up being and how things went on brew day.
I have to say that I have learned a lot from this thread and at this point I feel that I will owe each of you a cold one.
Cheers and Thanks all!

There's nothing wrong with being prepared. Starters are way easier than you think. And quite interesting. They just take time and a little care.

logan3825 said:

Just use US-05 instead of 1056. Same strain but dry is less expensive and much much easier do use.

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^^^^^^^^^
Good point

Spicemon1972 said:

Looks like I'm going to have to do a starter then. I know that there is a stickie and several videos I can watch that will explain it very well.
I hate to admit this, but I have been tinkering with the recipe too based on what I have on hand for hops. It's a lot of fun getting into BeerSmith and learning how to work the program but it makes it way too bloody easy to play the "what if I did this" game. And for an endlessly tinkering fool like myself, that can be crippling.

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I think most of us tinker with the hops.

I still advocate the dry yeast for this particular one but making a starter ins't hard at all. Just sanitize everything good. The rest of the stuff isn't as finicky as making beer(which isn't really finicky either).

logan3825 said:

I still advocate the dry yeast for this particular one but making a starter ins't hard at all.

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I am leaning toward making a starter if for nothing else than the experience and advancement of my still quite novice brewing skills. That being said, if I were to decide to use dry yeast on a beer such as this in the future (let's say as a comparison with the liquid or just for more experience) would I pitch one package of dry or multiple packages. I looked at the spec sheet for Safale 05 and didn't see anything that looked like a cell count to go by.
What am I missing?

Thanks in advance...

One pack of US05 has done well for me up to OGs of 1.09 as long as I have good aeration of the wort

Spicemon1972 said:

I am leaning toward making a starter if for nothing else than the experience and advancement of my still quite novice brewing skills. That being said, if I were to decide to use dry yeast on a beer such as this in the future (let's say as a comparison with the liquid or just for more experience) would I pitch one package of dry or multiple packages. I looked at the spec sheet for Safale 05 and didn't see anything that looked like a cell count to go by.
What am I missing?

Thanks in advance...

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I'd consult the pitch rate calc on MrMalty to see how much dry you need. If that leaves you with say, a half pack of yeast leftover, use the leftovers as nutrient in the boil. If I were you, since you want to learn about starter, go for it. Make one for this batch. It's really, really easy. And kinda fun. Nothing wrong with dry yeast at all, but if you plan on using liquid sometime, why not start now.