S-04 got me buggin...

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smizak

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Brewed an oatmeal stout and used S-04 for the first time. I usually use Wyeast for British strains, but decided to try it. Pitched at 65, fermented at 66-67 for a day and then the temp took off on it's own up to 71F or so. This in my basement which is 63F ambient. :eek:

The aroma from the airlock is SUPER estery now as it's finishing up. Is this normal for this strain? I like some esters in my British ales but this smells like fruity nail polish remover. Hopefully I'm just 'noid and this is how this yeast smells as it's flocking out.
 
Here's this is an old post of mine...but the message is the same for you;

The thing to remember though is that if you are smelling this during fermentation not to worry. During fermentation all manner of stinky stuff is given off (ask lager brewers about rotten egg/sulphur smells, or Apfelwein makers about "rhino farts,") like we often say, fermentation is often ugly AND stinky and PERFECTLY NORMAL.

It's really only down the line, AFTER the beer has been fermented (and often after it has bottle conditioned even,) when you should consider using this or the off flavor charts to diagnose the beer.

I think too many new brewers focus to much on this stuff too early in the beer's journey. And they panic unnecessarily.

A lot of the stuff you smell/taste initially more than likely ends up disappearing either during a long primary/primary & secondary combo, Diacetyl rests and even during bottle conditioning.

If I find a flavor/smell, I usually wait til it's been in the bottle 6 weeks before I try to "diagnose" what went wrong, that way I am sure the beer has passed any window of greenness.

As good as this info is, taken out of its proper context (meaning fully matured, carbed and conditioned beers) these threads/lists often produce the new brewer's version of hypochondria.

Fementation is often ugly, smelly and crappy tasting in the beginning and perfectly normal. The various conditioning phases, be it long primary, secondarying, D-rests, bottle conditioning, AND LAGERING, are all part of the process where the yeast, and co2 correct a lot of the normal production of the byproducts of fermentation.

Lagering is a prime example of this. Lager yeast are prone to the production of a lot of byproducts, the most familiar one is sulphur compounds (rhino farts) but in the dark cold of the lagering process, which is at the minimum of a month (I think many homebrewers don't lager long enough) the yeast slowly consumes all those compounds which results in extremely clean tasting beers if done skillfully.

Ales have their own version of this, but it's all the same.

If you are sampling your beer before you have passed a 'window of greeness" which my experience is about 3-6 weeks in the bottle, then you are more than likely just experiencing an "off flavor" due to the presence of those byproducts (that's what we mean when we say the beer is "green" it's still young and unconditioned.) but once the process is done, over 90% of the time the flavors/smells are gone.

Of the remaining 10%, half of those may still be salvageable through the long time storage that I mention in the Never dump your beer!!! Patience IS a virtue!!! Time heals all things, even beer!:

And the remaining 50% of the last 10% are where these tables and lists come into play. To understand what you did wrong, so you can avoid it in the future.

The thing is, you can't really do anything to the batch you have, you can only learn from your mistakes by looking at those charts, to know what to do next time.. If it says for example that "x off flavor is a result of high fermentation temps" then you no know for the next batch with that yeast, or all batches that you need to do something to control the temps where you ferment, be it a fridge, or a swamp cooler. If it say "y flavor is a result of an infection." Then you know that you have a sanitization issue that needs to be addressed.

But you can't really do anything to the batch you have. Except perhaps long term aging to see if it will clear, OR consuming fast if it is an infection, or dumping.

So honestly, there's no point in even dragging out these charts in mid stream. As I say often, your beer has a huge journey to go through from grain to glass, and a lot of changes are going to happen.

Long story short....I betcha that "paint thinner" smell will be long gone when the beer is carbed and conditioned.

In other words rdwhahb, :D
 
Thanks Revvy. Almost two years in and dozens of batches and I'm still a nervous n00b. :eek: I like to get a sense of how a yeast strain ferments before I use it, to know where I'm at.

It never ceases to amaze me how differently various yeast strains behave.

I was pondering this as I watched this S-04 raise a krausen in about four hours, practically spray vodka out of the airlock for 24 hrs., then drop like a rock in two hours and make my carboy look like a swirling bowl of muddy cottage cheese. Crazy stuff.
 
Just wait until you rack off of it. In my experience, it falls so well that the cake is nearly a solid piece. I can rest the autosiphon on the cake without picking up much trub at all.
 
Thanks Revvy. Almost two years in and dozens of batches and I'm still a nervous n00b. :eek: I like to get a sense of how a yeast strain ferments before I use it, to know where I'm at.

It never ceases to amaze me how differently various yeast strains behave.

I was pondering this as I watched this S-04 raise a krausen in about four hours, practically spray vodka out of the airlock for 24 hrs., then drop like a rock in two hours and make my carboy look like a swirling bowl of muddy cottage cheese. Crazy stuff.

Sometimes I think I'm the only one on this planet, this site, or the entire hobby that doesn't worry about anything in brewing......:drunk:

I guess since nothing pathogeninc can live in beer, I don't see anything to stress about.
 
Sometimes I think I'm the only one on this planet, this site, or the entire hobby that doesn't worry about anything in brewing......:drunk:

I guess since nothing pathogeninc can live in beer, I don't see anything to stress about.

What I'm worried about is having to sit through another mind-numbing, slight trickle, two hour sparge again to get this stout right. Damn oatmeal. :mad: :D
 
Rice Hulls????

Yep. I posted about it in the recipe/ingredient thread. The oatmeal dissolved into a mud-like substance and would rise to the top of the grain bed after it settled and form an almost water tight seal. I stirred like a freakin Cuisinart and I could not get it to stay dispersed in the grist. It would drain well for a minute then the oat-mud layer would setup and the sparge would slow to a trickle.
 
I'm pretty laid back, but the first time S-04 gave me BROWN layers in the krausen, I thought "uh oh." Fortunately, it smelled fine,and tasted great later in the bottle :)

And +1 on the tight trub. I press down a little to sink the bottom of my auto siphon into the cake and it barely stirs up at all.
 
Sometimes I think I'm the only one on this planet, this site, or the entire hobby that doesn't worry about anything in brewing......:drunk:

I guess since nothing pathogeninc can live in beer, I don't see anything to stress about.


Ohh ya .... I stress out that I am going to run out of beer and then I can't RDWHAHB then what in Gods name will I do?! Feel like the guy on the old Dunkin Donuts commercial "Time to make the Beer"






















:D
 
Happiness is a tight yeast cake...
10964d1241065853-leaving-beer-behind-your-yeast-chocolate-yeast-cake.jpg

I loves me some S-04!
btw... it's brown because of the cocoa powder, not the yeast.
 
What I'm worried about is having to sit through another mind-numbing, slight trickle, two hour sparge again to get this stout right. Damn oatmeal. :mad: :D

Try a combination beta-glucan/protein rest first - 122° for 20 minutes - and then infuse up to your saccharification rest.
 
for a minute I was what the hell is he using an autosiphon and a vinyl hose ... Then it was slap the forehead its the autosiphon hose you moron...
 
Anybody ever notice the temperature rise with this yeast as it starts to floc out?

It was a pretty steady 67F at full krausen, then after it dropped, the temp shot up to 71F or so. I thought it was very odd, then I read a post on the Northern Brewer forum that described the same thing. Some weird yeast.

Flyangler: I think the biggest problem was the instant oatmeal. It completely dissolved and formed a compact mud layer that would rise (or grain sink first below it) on top of the grain bed after a couple of minutes and prevent the sparge water from draining. Would a protein rest help it to mix into the grist better? I used some weird hippy-store organic instant oats, maybe that was the problem. Fun times standing in my garage staring at that stupid little trickle trying to fill my 10 gal. kettle.
 
Update: Seems to be stuck at 1.020 after 8 days. Super estery. Crap. I think a minor temp fluctuation caused it to floc out too early. Gonna try rousing the fermenter. This beer has been a pain.
 
Don't stress, I had my oatmeal stop a little over 1.020 and it was the best beer I brewed so far. The longer this beer matured the better the flavor and the roasted malts came out.
 
OG was 1.063-> 1.020=68% attenuation which I guess isn't horrible for an English strain. Wanted it a little drier though. The sample tasted SWEET.
 
OG was 1.063-> 1.020=68% attenuation which I guess isn't horrible for an English strain. Wanted it a little drier though. The sample tasted SWEET.

The thing to remember though is that if you are smelling or tasting this during fermentation not to worry. During fermentation all manner of stinky stuff is given off (ask lager brewers about rotten egg/sulphur smells, or Apfelwein makers about "rhino farts,") like we often say, fermentation is often ugly AND stinky and PERFECTLY NORMAL.

It's really only down the line, AFTER the beer has been fermented (and often after it has bottle conditioned even,) when you should consider using this or the off flavor charts to diagnose the beer.

I think too many new brewers focus to much on this stuff too early in the beer's journey. And they panic unnecessarily.

A lot of the stuff you smell/taste initially more than likely ends up disappearing either during a long primary/primary & secondary combo, Diacetyl rests and even during bottle conditioning.

If I find a flavor/smell, I usually wait til it's been in the bottle 6 weeks before I try to "diagnose" what went wrong, that way I am sure the beer has passed any window of greenness.

Fementation is often ugly, smelly and crappy tasting in the beginning and perfectly normal. The various conditioning phases, be it long primary, secondarying, D-rests, bottle conditioning, AND LAGERING, are all part of the process where the yeast, and co2 correct a lot of the normal production of the byproducts of fermentation.

Lagering is a prime example of this. Lager yeast are prone to the production of a lot of byproducts, the most familiar one is sulphur compounds (rhino farts) but in the dark cold of the lagering process, which is at the minimum of a month (I think many homebrewers don't lager long enough) the yeast slowly consumes all those compounds which results in extremely clean tasting beers if done skillfully.

Ales have their own version of this, but it's all the same.

If you are sampling your beer before you have passed a 'window of greeness" which my experience is about 3-6 weeks in the bottle, then you are more than likely just experiencing an "off flavor" due to the presence of those byproducts (that's what we mean when we say the beer is "green" it's still young and unconditioned.) but once the process is done, over 90% of the time the flavors/smells are gone.

Of the remaining 10%, half of those may still be salvageable through the long time storage that I mention in the Never dump your beer!!! Patience IS a virtue!!! Time heals all things, even beer:

And the remaining 50% of the last 10% are where these tables and lists come into play. To understand what you did wrong, so you can avoid it in the future.

Long story short....I betcha that smell/flavor will be long gone when the beer is carbed and conditioned.
 
I'm not passing any judgment on flavor yet, I know better.

What concerns me is the FG. You can kinda tell when a beer is done and hit terminal. The yeast has completely dropped out, been so for days. Now I got a 1.020 reading twice, two days apart. Just wondering if any S-04 gurus think this is standard for this yeast, or do I have to pick apart my process to find out what the hell I did wrong. I was under the impression that this strain attenuated fairly well and really fast. 68% is not attenuative IMHO. I mashed @ 153-154 BTW. Should be fairly fermentable.

And I have RDWHAHB'd. I'm not stressed, this will be beer after it's through, which is nothing to worry about. It's more about learning how this yeast behaves.

Thanx BTW guys! :mug:
 
At 68%, you're on the lower limit of attenuation for this strain (I had to reference Wyeast 1099 since it is ostensibly the liquid version for that information). At 153-154° for your mash schedule, I'd say that is an expected degree of attenuation.
 
Thanx flyangler.

That makes sense. Given the amount of roasted grain and caramel malt in this stout that does seem to be in spec. I've actually used that liquid strain in a brown ale that didn't attenuate as well as I liked. I blamed the bunch of caramel malt I used in that one too.

I didn't know that S-04 was Whitbread.
 
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