60 gallons a day water filtering??

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Grinder12000

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Since I'm involved with a DIY brewpub I'm looking for an efficient way to filter water about - 60 gallons a day. Any ideas that would not be a major cost problem??
 
I'm thinking RO water?? but not sure how much somethign like that would cost for a 49 seat brewpub - you see our town softens the water BEFORE it get's to our houses (we water lawns with soft water) and since it tastes rather crappy . . . . . .
 
So you know what your water looks like to start with? RO is basically the same as distilled water, you will have to add back ions to make it suitable for brewing (i.e. "build" your water). The up-side is that you can build your water to suit the style you are brewing (e.g. "Burtonize" your water for English IPAs), the down-side is expense, cost and output from the RO system.
 
60 g/day membranes aren't that expensive for RO. If you think you may have a certain peak usage though (lunch or dinner time), it may exceed what the membrane is able to keep up with during those times.

I would recommend looking for something at twice that rate for RO, and using larger storage tanks to 'save up' the water while you aren't using it.

For my home RO system, I have this system: https://www.wattspremier.com/products.php?product=RO-PURE-(RO%2d4)-Reverse-Osmosis-System

bought from costco for pretty cheap, and it has a 50 gallon/day membrane. I bought an 11 gallon storage tank to put in addition with the one that came with it. This gives me about 8-9 gallons total water storage (the tanks have bladders in them that takes up space).

If you don't want to deal with larger storage tanks, there are some RO membranes rated for continuous duty and the systems are tankless, but be careful and look up reviews, as I've read some of those systems don't last long or have issues in the long term.

My home system works well for me, but I don't know how that would translate to a brewpub.

Oh, and watering your lawn with softened water doesn't sound good to me, I tend to think there would be way too much sodium in the soil over time, but if it works for your town...
 
Talked to the water dudes - they add florid, silicates (isn't that sand?) and chlorine. The water is pretty hard around here, in fact VERY hard.

As for watering . . . . I stay away from that actually, I'm not a fan of mowing. LOL
 
Talked to the water dudes - they add florid, silicates (isn't that sand?) and chlorine. The water is pretty hard around here, in fact VERY hard.

As for watering . . . . I stay away from that actually, I'm not a fan of mowing. LOL

If you are serious about this, you actually need a water report that quantifies the levels of ions, minerals, etc. in your water. "water is pretty hard around here" doesn't cut it...how hard is it exactly?

My 0.02
 
if youve decided you are definately going with RO, you can skip the water report as almost everything will be zero. you should get one done on your tap water if you are still deciding on filtered vs RO, that will tell you what your options are.

60 gallons/day isnt much, a really nice carbon filter setup will probably be on-par with a small sized RO system in combined setup and operating costs. you will need a 60-80 gallon storage tank with RO however, which you probably wouldnt need with regular filters.

I'm thinking RO water?? but not sure how much somethign like that would cost for a 49 seat brewpub
sizes go by #gallons used (which you said was 60/day), not by how many seats at a restaurant. it wouldnt be for the entire building
(that would be $$$$$$$$$).
 
If you are serious about this, you actually need a water report that quantifies the levels of ions, minerals, etc. in your water. "water is pretty hard around here" doesn't cut it...how hard is it exactly?

My 0.02

And as for taste, try running it through a carbon block filter. They do wonders for the taste of my well water & don't remove any minerals that are important to brewing.
 
Are there carbon blocks that big that would not have to be changed out daily? Pretty happy - opened tonight - pass all inspections and the place is hopping!! hmmmm a well hopped brewpub!

Need more beer though! LOL
 
I would like to post my .02 about some of the comments on water.

RO water is simply reverse osmosis water. As with anything else, there are different qualities of RO water. The quality of RO water is measured by TDS ( total dissolved solids).

The comment about RO water being the nearly the same as distilled is true IF the TDS is 0, or close to 0.

A good high quality industrial RO system after installed, will make up water that will measure about 7 TDS. A 4" by 40" membrane will produce a maximum of 2 gallons per minute with 77 degree water being pushed through the membrane at around 200 PSI. One of these membranes is around $170.

The key to these membranes lasting is to feed them with chlorine free, soft water.

Hard water is measured in grains of hardness. Usually calcium is the biggest contributor to hardness. Soft water is not salty, as someone mentioned above, as the salt is not added to the water. The salt that goes into the brine tank is used to rinse the resin inside the softener tank. The resin removes calcium and other minerals as the water passes through the resin by using it's magnetic charge. after the resin is "full" of these materials, it must be rinsed and recharged with the brine water, and then back flushed with fresh water.

Sorry to be so long, but I felt like some of this information would be useful.
 
Are there carbon blocks that big that would not have to be changed out daily?


There are really two different ways to remove chlorine.

One way would be to use a carbon filter tank. It would resemble a water softener tank, with carbon used internally instead of resin. Then, after the carbon filter tank, I would use a sediment filter to ensure you catch any carbon that could come from the tank. This could be done for around $500 for a 1 cubic tank. I would guess from the size of your brew pub, you would probably need to change out the carbon, ( around $80) every 7 or 8 years.

The other way would be to use a carbon filter in a sediment filter housing. It would cost about $100. You would need to test your water for chlorine on a regular basis, and change the filter as necessary.

The first option would require more $ up front, but would save money in the long run.
 
Are there carbon blocks that big that would not have to be changed out daily?
no drinkable water is going to foul even the smallest standard charcoal filter after only 60 gallons...

there are two standard canister filter legnths (or heights, if you think of it that way); 10" and 20", and two common thicknesses; 2" and 4.5". im sure there are others that you can find, and there are also larger non-canister systems, but those are the common sizes.

so if you buy the largest carbon canister filter you can (20" long by 4.5" thick), and even put a few in series, it will last quite a while. how long is determined by how much is in your water. unless you have some seriously terrible water, most carbon canister filters are good for 500-5000 gallons, again, depending on your water and usage. if you have several filters in series, you only need to change the first one frequently (or just wait untill your chlorine tests indicate they are used up, then change them all at once).

you also need to know if your water is chlorinated with chlorine or chloramine. the latter will NOT be removed with a carbon filter (but chlorine will be removed by a carbon filter). you have to use potassium or sodium metabisulphite, or reverse osmosis, to remove chloramine ("campden tablets"; they will also remove regular chlorine).

I would guess from the size of your brew pub, you would probably need to change out the carbon, ( around $80) every 7 or 8 years
unfortunately carbon doesnt last indefinately even if you arent using it. it will need to be changed every 1-2 years even if you only use a few gallons of water during that time, and sooner if you use a lot and wear it out, obviously. you should be testing the chlorine content of the filtered water atleast weekly, if not before each brew, to make sure the filters are working.
 
Quote:
I would guess from the size of your brew pub, you would probably need to change out the carbon, ( around $80) every 7 or 8 years
unfortunately carbon doesnt last indefinately even if you arent using it. it will need to be changed every 1-2 years even if you only use a few gallons of water during that time, and sooner if you use a lot and wear it out, obviously. you should be testing the chlorine content of the filtered water atleast weekly, if not before each brew, to make sure the filters are working.


I was not talking about a disposable inline carbon filter in a housing, in the last part. I was talking about something like this:Fleck, Sentry and Autotrol Auto-Backwashing Whole-House Filters

As you mentioned, it will depend on the amount of cholrine in the water to begin with, but I do believe that he should get that amount of life out of the carbon. With these type systems, the carbon filters the chlorine out, and then the carbon is backflushed, and fluffed.
 
Late to the party here, but I agree, 60gpd sounds like a lot, but that is with ideal pressure and allowing for 24 hours of filtration time. If you have ideal conditions, and find you need water in a timely fashion, the theoretical maximum that is going to give you is 2.5 gph at the end of the line.

I would personally go with a 4 stage 150gpd or 200 gpd system. You can get a 150 for about 275 dollars shipped, and a 200gpd for a little over 300, 350 if you get it with a booster pump.

Lots of folks use these sizes is the aquarium hobby, you can find several custom builders that sell systems on ebay that will have a lot of feedback, and since reef keepers can be an ocd bunch, a quick google of a vendor will give all sorts of feedback on what they liked and didn't like.

Hope that helps! I have one from an ebay vendor named h20splash that has worked flawlessly for me for several years, but since all the parts are standard, any vendor with good feedback should be able to give similar results.
 
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