Brewing on a Sailboat....

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BrewOnBoard

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G'day fellow brewers! As I just posted in the introductions area, I am BrewOnBoard. I used to brew on premeses at a great place in seattle which sadly went under. I took years off, occasionally helping a friend brew a batch or three in a kitchen. Now I want to get back into the game!

The bit that's interesting is that I live on a sailboat. I want to make it work though, not just because homebrewing is AWESOME but to save money and to always have a supply of the essentials on hand when we sail to the Mediterranean in a few years. The boat's got room to brew, at 41ft we have ample space under the cockpit for gear, and even a small walk-in closet forward that can hold fermenting products. The kitchen's small but we always manage. So I've come here to have the collective wisdom help me design a small batch home brew setup for the boat. Some of the challenges I foresee are:

Temperature control: The boat's temp fluctuates much more than a house. It's cold in winter up north, hot in the tropics. Refrigeration will probably be available on a limited basis and the ocean temp could be used.

Motion: There are days where things are still at anchor or at a dock, but motion is the norm, not the exception. The brew setup must be non-breakable, (PET bottles?) non-spillable, and I need a strain of yeastie-beasties that are immune to sea-sickness. :drunk:

Space and water usage: my kitchen is REALLY small. Water is often at a premium too so no bottles in the dishwasher for me. I need something that doesn't make a huge mess and require keeping heaps of gear.

Ingredients: Ideally I need a system that uses ingredients I can get around the world and/or I need to take the ingredients with me to brew a "few";) batches as I sail over the years. (Dry extract and yeast? Canned malt?)


I've been looking at "The Beer Machine" as a starter. I realize that better gear can be had cheaper from any shop but if this platform isn't complete crap I'm hoping it can be modified to work. I like it because it is small, easy to tie down, and doesn't need multiple fermenters that will each need storage and cleaning. Any and all suggestions for a brew setup that will work on a sailboat are welcome! :rockin:

BrewOnBoard:mug:
 
I have very little to offer constructively, other then PET may be best, as well as a climate controlled chamber including heating and cooling. Movement I imagine will be great during the vigorous primary but not so much when you want yeast to settle out. I imagine you could still sanitize with seawater and iodophor, but not sure, and as far as ingredients go, bulk AG would likely be best and easiest to store.

Now, to the main reason for my post: You are living the life I dream of. I hope that you find a way to work this out, and get back to me if you do! Best of luck!
 
I think your problem will require a personal solution. I would be happy for you to fly me to your boat. I will help drink your beer and tell you if it is OK. I am willing to stay so that we can see if the subsequent batches maintain the standard too. :drunk:

I think your boat may be too small for all of us who are willing to help in this way.

Cheers and best wishes with your plans. :mug:
 
if you put the ferm vess / carboy whatever in the middle of the boat would it move less. Like sitting in the middle of the bus. I don't think I am explaining this well at all, but I am off to bed. not drunk just fecking tired!
 
Didn't you start a thread a couple months back on here about this already? IIRC we all volunteered to become you on board brewmaster.

And if your not the same person, you probably will sadly get as much help as he did...which is zero, because there appears to be noone on here who does it. SO you'll get a lot of speculation but no true info.

And when yo solve it, write up an article for BYO and you'll be a hit!

Some things you need to consider...How will you boil the wort? Are you going to use a propane turkey fryer like many of us do? How are you going to handle temp control? How will you chill your wort, with an immersion chiller? (seems to me an immersion chiller hooked you to an aquarium pump with a long extension cord and hose dropped over the side of the boat might work.) How will you handle sanitization? Will you brew extract or All Grain, and if so where will you get your materials, and how will you store them? Will you use buckets of Betterbottles to ferment in? Will you be brewing ALes or Lagers, and if lagers how will you handle lagering? How much storage space can you dedicate to your gear, even a 5 gallon setup required some space? Where will you get your water? Obviously salt water will be out of the question, so you will need at LEAST 10 gallons of water/per 5 gallons of beer you brew (for extract, including cleaning and sanitization) and a heck of a lot more for all grain. Are you going to keg or bottle?

If you can deal with these issues then you are well on your way! :mug:

It seems to me that if you are seeing the world, it would probably be cheaper, and equally exciting to sample the beers of the world, there are a heck of a lot of small regional breweries all around the world, some beers we'll probably NEVER get to taste even living in America.
 
The Beer Machine is an OK place to start, but their kits are really limited. Nothing stops you from buying your own ingredients and doing small boils, then finishing in the machine. Most kits are geared for 5 US gallons, but you can always split them.

Yeast cares more about temperature than motion. I'd stick to dry yeasts, as the storage requirements are easier.

Water temperatures will generally be low enough that you could use a simple cooler & pump to maintain the fermenter. Supplies will be a real problem in the Mediterranean, you'll probably want to stock-up before you go.
 
Hmm, this is pretty interesting.

I'd definitely do extract. Unless you are docked, all grain is going to take a lot of space and water.

Since space is limited, you might want to look into kegging. No bottles to mess with. If you are only brewing every once and a while, you dont need to worry about having enough. Cooling it might be a problem.

Temperature control: The boat's temp fluctuates much more than a house. It's cold in winter up north, hot in the tropics. Refrigeration will probably be available on a limited basis and the ocean temp could be used.
Brew according to the season. In the summer, or in the tropics, brew a beer that doesn't mind warmer temperatures (Saison comes to mind). When its cold, well thats perfect! Fluctuation might be a bit of a problem. That could be solved by insulating the fermenter.

As for ingredients, I'd stock up on dry malt extract and some specialty grains for steeping. If you made smaller batches (2.5 gallons), storage wouldnt be too much of a problem.

Look at using "Better Bottles". They are plastic bottles made for fermenting. Don't worry about multiple fermenters. If you are kegging, you can let it sit in the primary for a few weeks, then go straight to the keg.
 
I would think that for your fermentor(s) you would want it to have more headspace than what most might use. Like a 6 or 6.5 gallon container might not be enough for a 5 gal batch during fermentation in choppy waters.
 
This whole concept rocks. If Brewtopia can do 5 gallon AG batches in a condo, I'm willing to bet you could brew on a sailboat. Wish I could offer help with specifics, but not having any brainstorms as of yet.
 
I used to live aboard a 44' sailboat as a teenager, and I was a yacht broker here in Annapolis, once upon a time. Never brewed on board, but I did have a listing for a brokerage sailboat that had a tower built in above the icebox/refrigerator. The owner was a homebrewer who would bring a corney with him.

Water saver: The Vinator bottle sprayer. This is a good buy for anyone, but a pint or two of sanitizer solution can sanitize all of your bottles if you go that route.

I've never used the Party Pigs (though I own one from a bunch of stuff I bought off craigslist), but I think that might be a really good solution for you instead of bottles and wouldn't take up too much room in the icebox/fridge. They're plastic.

The constant motion is going to make clarifying your finished product kind of hard in the fermenter.
 
Oh, and ingredients-wise, I'd probably plan on ordering a few batche's worth at a time and having them shipped to meet you someplace. When you're in Europe you should probably go from European suppliers.
 
I own a sail boat, much smaller than yours, but I have aspirations on a 38' for single handling the inside passage and then down to BaHa... we shall see after that.

I'm thinking 2.5 gal batches should be doable and a 3 gal keg should fit in your fridge. Problem is that it's still going to take up a lot of your food space on long legs.

Do you have a water maker on board? What is your electrical supply? Are you limited to generator only or do you have alt supply? (wind/solar) Cooling shouldn't be too much of an issue if you have elec power to run a small pump, you can circulate ocean water (50-60 deg mostly) for cooling down the wort. As others have said though the fermentation is ok, but clarifying might be difficult.

Maybe its not so much of an issue if you make/like a Heff or something not light and clear already.

As a fellow sailor, you know it's a matter of compromise no mater what, the boat's not big/fast/stable/cheap/easy to work on... bla bla bla. But it's the life of Riley!!! Make it work and just kick back and enjoy!
 
I think I'm going to really like this board! :D

I am not the person that asked about this before. The idea only occurred to me recently. I know that there are people that must be doing it, but perhaps they're more rare than I think. Thanks for the tip BTW about writing it up my sailing-hottie is a writer (as one of her talents) and if it works (or goes badly wrong) it might be a good story.

How about this, I'll write up what I think might work and y'all can use your collective wisdom to tell me why I'm wrong.

First I want to do smaller batches than 5 gal because everything on a boat is smaller. Besides I enjoy the process and don't mind having several varieties on hand. We're planning on having a freezer (full of food) and a non-electric cooler/icebox that we will put ice into from the freezer. If necessary I can insulate the fermenter and put ice in the insulated box. So refrigeration is available on a limited basis but in short supply. This is why I think kegs or party pigs won't work. I can't keep them cool enough to dispense and drink. I think I'm going to have to go with pet or glass bottles. I've carried home brewed cider on a 4month trip and never broke a bottle. With bottles I can put a few or 10 in the cooler at a time.

I can boil a enough for 2.5 gal batches using my SS crab boiling pot on my propane stove top. It gets pretty darn hot. From what I've been reading liquid malt extract (which is what I'm used to using) doesn't keep. So I think dried malt extract and or grain is the way to go. DarthBrew has inspired me on stovetop all grain! Grains probably keep well (and can possibly be found overseas). I'll need help with ingredients that keep well and how to keep dry yeast alive. Also if I can buy off the shelf barley at the market in Italy do you think it will brew well?

I was interested in the Beer Machine because it seems like I could sanitize it once and it would be primary and secondary and bottler in one. I was also thinking that party pigs look like a better product and if I could put a 15psi relief valve in one they could be a fermenter also. I also figure that the Lowes 3 gal water bottles might work well.

I figure I need to brew with the seasons. Ale yeast in the tropics and lager yeast in the winter. Pity as I like lager when it's hot and ale when it's cold. Still I need to learn more about temp and yeast and that's something I won't have heaps of control over. I'll need help from y'all here.

I do have a sea water pump that is designed to wash down the boat. Perhaps with a hose and some copper tubing I could make a seawater wort chiller.... I can add that to the home made watermaker that I'm thinking of building from a pressure washer and some membranes.

I don't know how much of a problem motion is. Luckily clarity is what I care about least. I care about taste, alcohol percent, taste, smell, taste, mouth feel, taste and oh yeah, clarity.

Sanitizing is something else I'll need help with. I'd love to use a product that didn't require heaps of rinsing. If I make the watermaker I guess water will be plentiful but I shouldn't count on it. Is there a good one step sanitizer? Cleaning bottles might also be a problem.

That's it in a nutshell for now. More later.

BrewOnBoard:mug:
 
Moonpile. Thanks for the tip on the The Vinator bottle sprayer. I just looked it up and It'll be perfect for bottle washing! Low water/sanitizer usage and it doesn't look too bulky to store. Nice one!

One logistical problem solved. 20 to go. :D

BrewOnBoard
 
Good Luck BoB. I was thinking of a seawater cooler later, would kick a$$ in cold climates. Not sure about which metal to use, but I've served on a submarine and we have seawater coming through steel pipes all the time. (Not sure how well copper would hold up).

The best no rinse sanitizer on the market is Star San. Trust me, it's great.

If you have the capability to make ice, even a couple of gallons of frozen water in an igloo cooler will make an adequate fermentation chamber, esp if you have a dark, cool area to store it. (I imagine a 40' sailboat has some cargo holds).

For you, maybe 2.5 gallon batches fermented in a 3 gallon better bottle would be the way to go. The better bottle is also available on other sites with a port in the bottom. Take a look at some of the threads here about not using a secondary, it works well, and it would cut one step out of the process for you.

I'd say go for AG, and if not at least use dry extract. Make sure you post some cool pics of you brewing and enjoying beer in the Med and other tropical ports.
 
If you're going extract, and I see why you would, DME is supposed to keep longer, so you're on the right track there. Vacuum sealer. Humidity + DME = rock.

A hefe in higher temps can turn into a banana bomb. Start looking for a yeast that can handle higher temps and some variable temps cleanly. Right off the bat, I'd suggest S-05, but there may be something even better.
 
I think the best way to achieve your goal is to use a proven widely used product. The Cooper's complete kit is a fine choice.(comes in a large red box) It comes with everything you need - except sanitizer and water. Of special note, it includes a lager extract package but there are many other choices available to choose from later.

Cooper's beer kits come with their propriety yeast that can handle an amazing amount of temperatures - and still produce good tasting beer.

I live in North Florida and have been making Cooper's extract beer using their complete kit for some time now. In the Fall and Winter I set the carboy on the counter in an unused bathroom and crack the window. The temperature fluctuates from very cool evenings (30 - 50 f) to fairly warm days (60 - 70 f). The Cooper's plastic (PET) carboy has a dark towel wrapped around it and the temperature stays right at 22 c (72 f). Every batch has turned out tasting great. ( I tend to play with the ingredients)

I prefer the Cooper's IPA and Sparkling Ale kits, but their Lager is great too. You can order the individual kits through many online sites, however the Sparkling Ale is harder to come by.
 
"I'd say go for AG, and if not at least use dry extract. Make sure you post some cool pics of you brewing and enjoying beer in the Med and other tropical ports."

I can definitely do that. ;-)

Thanks for the specifics on the cooper's kits. That's some pretty serious temp variation you go there! I plan on putting the fermenter/carboy in a locker under the cockpit where it will be touching the hull which is underwater. I should be able to keep a fairly constant temp at close to whatever the sea water temp is. I could also wrap a towel around the fermenter and add seawater to cool it further...

I might start with the coopers kits and then add some grain, and then try all-grain once I get the other bits worked out. Are the cooper's kits no-boil? That would sure be convenient but not as fun....

The better bottle looks like a good tip. Question: Is that better than the 3gal Lowes water bottle which I assume is less than $20? I saw the Lowes bottle in an apfelwein thread.

I wonder also if there is any real advantage of the expensive, fiddly beer machine over a better bottle with a tap on the bottom. If I don't have to transfer to a secondary and only have to use the spigot to bottle it might be a simpler cheaper option. I would have to carb with sugar though.... Hmmm....


BrewOnBoard
 
I wouldn't limit yourself to kit and kilo kits like coopers, you may be dissapointed, they may not store well, they may get boring for you etc.

If you are going to do this I think you should be able to do all types of brewing, based on the available ingredients...That means being able to make great beer with kit and kilos, extract with grain kits, but also be able to brew Ag as well....That way you can be open to whatever ingredients you may stumble upon.

If you are sticking with 2.5 gallon batches, you can get up to 14 pounds of grain in a 5 gallon cooler with a basic SS braid, obviously more with a 10 gallon cooler.

And you can boil down to 2.5 gallons in a 5 gallon pot, especially if you use foam control.

That way if you come across malted grains on your travels, you will know what to do with them.

Also I know you are asking about carboys and buckets...I think for your situation, where space will be an issue, the best options may be the 3 gallon better bottle.

krausen5.jpg


The nice thing is their square size and you can fit several in a small space...I don't know if you can tell by this pic, but I could easily put one in front of the other and ferment about 6 in the rubbermade bin I use as my swamp cooler.

fermenting.jpg


Another option, both as small fermenters and airtight storage for grain, and extract are Gamma Plastics Vittles Vaults available through Petsmart. They are food grade, stackable, come in various sizes, and have an airtight locking lid...

32120780-177x150-0-0.jpg


Many people drill a hole, add a gromett and slap an airlock on for a fermenter.
 
I was thinking you should do an IPA. Should try to find an original recipe. If it worked for the Brits going to India, it should work going to the Med.
 
I won't claim to be an expert brewer or sailor but I dabble in both. If it were me I would look at using the 6L tap-a draft system for dispensing. Similar to party pigs but co2 will be easier to find than the expansion packs. A 6L bottle won't take up much more cooler space than a 6pack of bottles and you can have a few of them unrefrigerated waiting to go. Also reduces the number of offline bottles you need to keep around waiting for the next batch.

You might not have great luck with a swamp cooler for temps given the humidity on-board and I would not want more water than needed open on board. If that doesn't bother you in these quantities you may need to look at a recirculating water / cooler option but it will burn though some ice. Given the conditions I might only cool the wort for a few days to get you through most of the ester production period. One of the wall mounted fermentors might be an interesting thought with a gimbal mount but would limit cooling options...

I'd be really tempted to go with hopped lme so you can reduce fuel consumption on boils and then add DME and aroma hops when you need to. Vacuum seal your hops...

Look for lower gravity beers that need fewer ingredients and less maturation time so you don't have a long pipeline. If you want to do AG then find some good SMaSH recipes for simplicity and economy of space (not so many different containers.) Finding malted barley in far-flung ports may be challenging.

Lastly I would do my brewing in port (especially a full boil) when possible so as not to deal with the large pot of hot liquid on the sea. No boil kits might work best for an extended stay on the water. Consider ciders and meads as a supplement to your beers since they are so easy and require little equipment.
 
craigd, Thanks for the heads up on the tap-a-draft system. It's definitely interesting. Even just storing beer in the 6L PET bottles for later bottling may be an idea.

Revvy, I agree the system should be as versitile as possible. That's definitely my goal. I want to be able to do partial mashes, stovetop grain ala DeathBeer. I don't want to limit myself to coopers kits at all as I KNOW I'll get bored with them soon. I've brewed enough to know how fun it is.:D Ideally though the system should be able to utilize the kits as one option because they may be all that's available. BTW Revvy, what's a "a 5 gallon cooler with a basic SS braid"?


So how does this sound for a system?

1x 5gal bucket (or SS cooler?) w tap. Will can act as a fermenter for a cooper's or other 5gal kit, a sparge bucket for AG/Partial, a sanitizing bucket for equipment, and storage for the stuff not in use.

I could also use it as a cooling bucket for wart chilling a 3gal BB by filling it with sea-water and immersing the BB in the bucket of water. I'd then open the tap at the bottom and let water flow out while continuing to add seawater (via my washdown pump and hose) to the top of the bucket.

1 (or more) 3gal better bottles for primary fermenters. These will act as the size I will normally brew with using AG, Partial etc. Nice size for 1/2 recipes.

Pet bottles and perhaps some Tap-A-keg bottles for storage and carbing. Can I sugar carb in a 6L PET bottle? Should work yeah?

BrewOnBoard

PS Right now I post when onboard through high speed residential WiFi. I'm docked in port now. In the future I'll use Ham radio which can be hooked into the internet and internet cafes. They're everywhere now, I once used one in India with ants crawling across the keyboard.
 
I like your line of thinking BoB. Basically with limited space, your items will need to have multiple uses. Your cooling method definately has potential as well.

You can definately carbonate in PET bottles. Either larger ones, or bottle in regular size soda bottles.
 
if you find barley, or most any other grains for that matter in other countries, they have to be malted. Just plain old barley does you no good.

Oh and I'll be your brewmaster, if I can sail with you ;)
 
Here's the link to the cooler with braid, which becomes your mash ton...

https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f51/cheap-easy-10-gallon-rubbermaid-mlt-conversion-23008/

I have a five gallon becasue I live in a loft without a lot of storage space, it holds between 12-14# of grain and water, which works fine for 2.5 gallon ag batches.
But obviously if youi have the space for the 10 gallon, it would be more versatile.

That's another idea. The cooler's insulation may help with temperature variations too. Perhaps that's better than a bucket for my purposes. Only problem is that I don't see a 6gal so I wouldn't be able to use it as a primary for a 5gal batch/kit.

BTW Revvy thanks for answering my soon to be asked question, which was how big of a kettle/sparge tub will I need for a 2.5gal AG batch.


Keep the ideas coming! This may end up becoming a really nice little system!
BrewOnBoard
 
I wonder if you'd want to filter, since it would be hard to get sediment to settle out if it's always being rocked back and forth.
 
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