Let's Partyyyy(gyle) that is!!!! Pumpkin Porter AND Ale from one mash!?!

Yakima 728
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carnevoodoo said:
The way I look at the parti gyle is that it is essentially a free beer. You get what comes out and it likely won't be to style, but who cares. It is free beer.
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It does make a double batch at a very reasonable cost.

From what I understand, it is how they used to brew back in the day. The cost of larger kettles made more sense to them to make two smaller kettles, and this was the result.

carnevoodoo said:
I just feel like rambling today.
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It's those girls in bikini's and high of 72 and low of 68 that's got your head all funny. You should just ditch, head up to Stone and drink there all day.
 
Warped04 said:
It does make a double batch at a very reasonable cost.

From what I understand, it is how they used to brew back in the day. The cost of larger kettles made more sense to them to make two smaller kettles, and this was the result.
Click to expand...

Yep...Take a look at the history of Porters and you'll see how important partigyle was to the early brewer...also I believe the various Scottish "Shilling Beers" were the various runnings of the parti-gyle...as well as the "table beers" that children drank in lieu of water.
 
Revvy said:
...So now I have beer up the wazoo!!!!
Click to expand...

I think your doing it wrong :eek:

;)

Thanks for posting all of this, I am planning on doing a partigyle with the 9-9-9 barlywine as the first beer and a porter as the second.

carnevoodoo said:
I made a barley wine and then added some other grain to make a porter.
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Would you care to share any details?
 
camiller said:
Thanks for posting all of this, I am planning on doing a partigyle with the 9-9-9 barlywine as the first beer and a porter as the second
Click to expand...

Well, it isn't so much me posting this to teach anyone else anything...It was more like;

"HELP ME!!!!!!!!!":confused:

But I'm glad other people are getting interested in try this ancient technique. I was surprised at the number of lurkers of it...But I was getting a little scared not to get many replies initially. But it looks like we've managed to cobble it together...now we hop and pumpkin these bad-boys and we'll be all set.

I probably wont be able to brew it til NEXT weekend though...
 
Warped04 said:
It's those girls in bikini's and high of 72 and low of 68 that's got your head all funny. You should just ditch, head up to Stone and drink there all day.
Click to expand...

I think it is like 80 outside right now and it is gross. In the cubed world that is my office it is nice and cool, though.

Stone is a pretty cool place to drink and all, but I've got a bar that is a 5 minute walk from my house called Hamilton's Tavern. 24 taps (all craft), hundreds of bottles, and I seem to have acquired the bartender's discount. I can't drink home from Stone, but itt sure is a pretty brewery.

Oh! And Alesmith is only 2 miles from my work, so that makes Friday afternoons fun too. :)
 
What do you think of this for spices/hopping of the porter?

Now I calculated it based on the "Porter Recipe" Not the Partigyle base itself.


It puts it at 24.6 IBUs

.75 oz. East Kent Goldings (5.00 %AA) boiled 60
.25 oz. Fuggle (4.75 %AA) boiled 15 min.
3.75 pounds Canned Pumpkin (roasted @ 350 degrees for 30 min, added last 15 mins of boil)
1 teaspoons Cinnamon (last 15 mins of boil)
.25 teaspoons Ginger (last 15 mins of boil)
.25 teaspoons Nutmeg (last 15 mins of boil)
.25 teaspoons Allspice (last 15 mins of boil)


Anyone know how to calculate how much sugar/pound pumpkin is so I can calculate it's contribution to the OG?

Also, anyone have any idea how I can figure out how to make Beersmith allow me to make hop calculations on the 2nd runnings beer?
 
I used the graivty shift to calculate up with the hopping amount...How's this look?

0.61 oz Goldings, East Kent [5.00 %] (60 min) Hops 21.4 IBU
0.20 oz Fuggles [4.50 %] (15 min) Hops 3.2 IBU

(24.6 IBU's)

Now I guess I should reduce this as well?

0.25 tsp Ground Allspice (Boil 15.0 min) Misc
0.25 tsp Ground Ginger (Boil 15.0 min) Misc
0.25 tsp Ground Nutmeg (Boil 5.0 min) Misc
0.50 tsp Ground Cinnamon (Boil 15.0 min) Misc
3.75 lb Canned Pumpkin (Boil 15.0 min) Misc
 
Hey Revvy,

I think you actually need to create 3 recipe files in Beersmith to figure out the hops.

I think you do the first and 2nd runnings recipes with their estimated gravities to do the hops / pumpkin. I just don't think Beersmith is setup to do this type of brewing.
 
I also looked at RichBrewer's Pumpkin Ale, and from what I've heard it's an excellent pumpkin beer:

[thread]23489[/thread]

He's way up on his spices, but I also know that #1. His is aged for like 4-5 months and #2, (I think at least) you are going for beer with a side of pumpkin instead of pumpkin with a side of beer (if that makes sense at all).

But I like your hop schedule.
 
Warped04 said:
Hey Revvy,

I think you actually need to create 3 recipe files in Beersmith to figure out the hops.

I think you do the first and 2nd runnings recipes with their estimated gravities to do the hops / pumpkin. I just don't think Beersmith is setup to do this type of brewing.
Click to expand...

That's what I did, or at least I think I did :D

Here's what I have...

Partigyle Base

Est Original Gravity: 1.068 SG

Amount Item Type % or IBU
10 lbs 15.0 oz Pale Malt (2 Row) US (2.0 SRM) Grain 70.97 %
1 lbs 7.9 oz Brown Malt (65.0 SRM) Grain 9.68 %
1 lbs 7.9 oz Munich Malt - 20L (20.0 SRM) Grain 9.68 %
8.0 oz Caramel/Crystal Malt - 40L (40.0 SRM) Grain 3.23 %
8.0 oz Caramel/Crystal Malt -120L (120.0 SRM) Grain 3.23 %
8.0 oz Chocolate Malt (350.0 SRM) Grain 3.23 %

Pumpkin Porter
(First Runnings)

Calculated as 60% of the original grainbill

2.5 gallon batch

(equivalent to)

Amount Item Type % or IBU
5 lbs 6.8 oz Pale Malt (2 Row) US (2.0 SRM) Grain 70.97 %
11.8 oz Brown Malt (65.0 SRM) Grain 9.68 %
11.8 oz Munich Malt - 20L (20.0 SRM) Grain 9.68 %
3.9 oz Caramel/Crystal Malt - 40L (40.0 SRM) Grain 3.23 %
3.9 oz Caramel/Crystal Malt -120L (120.0 SRM) Grain 3.23 %
3.9 oz Chocolate Malt (350.0 SRM) Grain 3.23 %

(Hops)
0.75 oz Goldings, East Kent [5.00 %] (60 min) Hops 21.4 IBU
0.25 oz Fuggles [4.50 %] (15 min) Hops 3.2 IBU

(Pumpkin/Spices)
0.25 tsp Ground Allspice (Boil 15.0 min) Misc
0.25 tsp Ground Ginger (Boil 15.0 min) Misc
0.25 tsp Ground Nutmeg (Boil 5.0 min) Misc
0.50 tsp Ground Cinnamon (Boil 15.0 min) Misc
3.75 lb Canned Pumpkin (Boil 15.0 min) Misc

Est Original Gravity: 1.081 SG
Est Final Gravity: 1.021 SG
Estimated Alcohol by Vol: 7.90 %
Bitterness: 24.6 IBU Calories: 43 cal/pint
Est Color: 30.1 SRM

Pumpkin "Amber Ale"
(Second Runnings)

Calculated as 40% of Grainbill

2.5 Gallons

(Equivalent to)

Amount Item Type % or IBU
4 lbs 4.4 oz Pale Malt (2 Row) US (2.0 SRM) Grain 85.06 %
4.0 oz Brown Malt (65.0 SRM) Grain 4.98 %
4.0 oz Munich Malt - 20L (20.0 SRM) Grain 4.98 %
1.3 oz Caramel/Crystal Malt - 40L (40.0 SRM) Grain 1.66 %
1.3 oz Caramel/Crystal Malt -120L (120.0 SRM) Grain 1.66 %
1.3 oz Chocolate Malt (350.0 SRM) Grain 1.66 %

(Hops)
0.61 oz Goldings, East Kent [5.00 %] (60 min) Hops 21.4 IBU
0.20 oz Fuggles [4.50 %] (15 min) Hops 3.2 IBU

(Pumpkin Spices Not Calculated Yet)
0.25 tsp Ground Allspice (Boil 15.0 min) Misc
0.25 tsp Ground Ginger (Boil 15.0 min) Misc
0.25 tsp Ground Nutmeg (Boil 5.0 min) Misc
0.50 tsp Ground Cinnamon (Boil 15.0 min) Misc
3.75 lb Canned Pumpkin (Boil 15.0 min) Misc

Est Original Gravity: 1.054 SG
Est Final Gravity: 1.014 SG
Estimated Alcohol by Vol: 5.21 %
Bitterness: 24.6 IBU Calories: 43 cal/pint
Est Color: 15.0 SRM
 
Well yesterday was Partigyle pumpkin day!

It went really smooth. Instead of brewing it at my place, my buddy invited me to bring my stuff to his place, so, since he had a yard, we could BBQ after we brewed. (I brought over some venison steaks that I marinated in an ancho/chipotle marinade I had made up the night before.)

We started around 11 am and pitched the second batch of beer's yeast at 4 pm. Had it been just me doing it, it would probably have taken maybe an adiitional hour or maybe more.

The interesting thing was that there was only about a 10-20 minute overlap where both worts were cooking. (My buddy's electric stove is much stronger than mine evidently, it got 3 gallons up to boil in no time.)

It seemed to take a long time for the second runnings to reach 3 gallons...there was a lot of loss due to grain absorbtion...that's why we were nearly 3/4's through the first boil when we got the second one on the stove.

We decided to do something similiar to Biermunchers bucket sparge doohicky, only the extra bucket was'n as narrow as his, so we didn't rig up bolts, and were able to set the bucket on top of the cooler. We managed to get the runoff to match pretty evenly.

Though next time I think I might batch sparge instead, and actually stir the grains more.

We didn't hit our numbers dead on though, instead of 1.080 & 1.050 (approximately) we got about 1.070 & 1.040... Still nothing to sneeze at in terms of being good sized beers. So I feel satisfied with that.

The downside/problems that occured were minor.
They didn't have EKG in pellet form, just whole leaf and it was a mess between that and the pumpkin goop to strain through on the first beer. On the second one we switched to a larger strainer and that helped immensly.

(in retrospect I might have considered doing first wort hopping right in the mash tun...that way they would have stayed behind.)

But otherwise that was the only challenge.

A couple of tips for partigyle brewing.....lay out all your additions for both beers ahead of time, and mark them. I normally use little bowls for each hops, if I were doing this again, and at my place I would lay out 2 pieces of paper on the counter, on labled beer 1, and the other beer 2. And on each paper I would pre- lay out each hop and spice addition, as well as the yeast packet (or starters) for both. I would lay those things out before I even started mashing. Once you get going it is easy to lose track of which beer got what addition. I think that the only thing that saved us was that half of the hops were whole leaf so we could tell what we were adding when.

Overall it was fun. I would probably do it again. But NOT on a regular basis. I think I will do this once more without the spices and pumpkins to see how tasty the beers would be without it. The hydro samples tasted great.

This morning before I left for work, both beers had krauzens on them, so all appears to be well.
 
Awesome Revvy. I am going to be brewing my pumpkin (ale/porter/whatever) and this looks very interesting. I assume you had a refractometer? And did you adjust your hops to your gravities or just leave them since they were close? How close is the above recipe to your final?

Thanks for doing all the leg work for the rest of us! (you too Warped!)
 
hammacks said:
Awesome Revvy. I am going to be brewing my pumpkin (ale/porter/whatever) and this looks very interesting. I assume you had a refractometer? And did you adjust your hops to your gravities or just leave them since they were close? How close is the above recipe to your final?

Thanks for doing all the leg work for the rest of us! (you too Warped!)
Click to expand...


No refractometer. And no I didn't re-adjust the hops to the gravities, that would be a little too anal for me. :D I figured since partigyle was done LOOOOOOONNNNNGGGGG before the "science" of brewing became so detailed and people even understood IBU's then I'd make it however it came out.

The only diff from the original is that I rounded each of the first 3 grains up to even them....11 pounds 2 row, and 1.5 pounds each of Brown and Munich.
 
Revvy said:
And no I didn't re-adjust the hops to the gravities, that would be a little too anal for me. :D I figured since partigyle was done LOOOOOOONNNNNGGGGG before the "science" of brewing became so detailed and people even understood IBU's then I'd make it however it came out.
Click to expand...

Plus, by now our hops are at least a year old so we are already 20% or more off because of hop age. ;)
 
Saccharomyces said:
Plus, by now our hops are at least a year old so we are already 20% or more off because of hop age. ;)
Click to expand...

You're not going to believe it, but when I was getting my grain, I couldn't remember if I had fuggles in my freezer or not, so I asked for an ounce just in case...one of the guys at the shop thought they were out, but one of hte other guys remembered seeing a packet in the freezer in the back room and went to dig it out...It still had a pre-hop shortage price sticker on it...SO yeah, that packet was at least a year old...or at least pre-Christmas last year....I forgot what it was like to pay $1.30 for an ounce of hoppy goodness.
 
Hey guys. Folowing Revvy's lead and doing a similar thing for my fall beer. I don't feel like doing a trip to the LHBS so I'm going with what I got. Do me a favor a look over this base please?

0.50 lb Rice Hulls (0.0 SRM) 3.3 %
12.00 lb Pale Ale Malt (3.5 SRM) 80.0 %
1.00 lb Biscuit Malt (23.0 SRM) 6.7 %
1.00 lb Caramel/Crystal Malt - 60L (60.0 SRM) 6.7 %
0.50 lb Chocolate Malt (350.0 SRM) 3.3 %

OG: 1.069
24 SRM

That Pale Ale Malt is slightly kilned
Other things I have on hand:
Plenty of regular 2-row
.5 lb Vienna
another .25lb chocolate
3/4 lb 80L
more 60L
black patent
roasted barley

I was also considering steeping the porter portion just prior to boiling (this would be my first porter). For hopping I'm going all EKG for around 25-30 IBUs. I got -04 & -05 (No notty :-( ) and I could suck some Irish ale yeast out of the bottom of my aging Christmas ale. Was thinking 04 for both.


Suggestions?
 
One more bump before I start crushing. Here is the latest:
0.50 lb Rice Hulls (0.0 SRM) Adjunct 3.1 %
12.50 lb Pale Ale Malt (3.5 SRM) Grain 78.1 %
1.00 lb Biscuit Malt (23.0 SRM) Grain 6.3 %
0.75 lb Caramel/Crystal Malt - 60L (60.0 SRM) Grain 4.7 %
0.75 lb Caramel/Crystal Malt - 80L (80.0 SRM) Grain 4.7 %
0.50 lb Chocolate Malt (350.0 SRM) Grain 3.1 %
Plus 60oz Pumpkin (in the mash)


I'm mainly trying to decide between S-05 and -04. I was thinking about mashing around 152 because I already have 1.5 lb crystals for unfermentables. I think I'll use -04 for the porter a little fruity esters and -05 for the amber.
 
WOW....

I just cracked one of each of the the partigyles...first I did the second runnings, then I just cracked the heavier, darker, first runnings....

and WOW....

First off they aren't carbed fully yet but they're coming around...

The second running is a nice amber ale, with noticeable pumpkin and spices, though I personally think it could use more of each....

The first runnings is muy potent right now...there is still some alcohol bite to it, since it was a big beer. But man although I am not getting a lot of pumpkin and spice I am getting a lot of toffee, caramel, chocolate and even a hint of coffee...

Although really young, this reminds me of a bottle of Third Coast Old Ale that I had recently....I can't really call it a porter though...it is more like a dark, heavy amber ale, it seems even too light for a brown ale, except maybe at the bottom of the srm scale....I think I'm going to really really like this one, in a few more week...since these were only 1 case batches, I may have to just stick a few away for a long time..

I'll right up a more formal tasting notes when it carbs up...

If anyone's looking for a partigyle recipe for something interesting...even without the pumpkin, I would recommend trying this recipe...if anything for the first runnings...this is a damn fine strong beer...

In the last few sips, the spices came through a bit more..you could even consider adding the spices, but leaving out the pumpkin...

EditI just realized what's missing, and what noone caught...there's no carapils in the grainbill for head retention...damn...Oh well.....
 
Hey Revvy,

Glad to hear that your partigyle beers turned out nice, this is something I intend to do next spring when the weather warms up.
One thing I've found in my research that might help you in the future with your recipes in Beersmith, instead of making "virtual" recipes for each running by using 60% and 40% of the grainbill, try this:

1. Make your 6 gallon recipe for grainbill and mash calculations.
2. Make two duplicates of this recipe, open the first duplicate, which is to be your first runnings. Drop the batch size to 3 gallons but don't change the grainbill, instead multiply your typical brewhouse efficiency by 60% and enter that number into the brewhouse efficiency box. ie. if you currently get 80% efficiency, enter 48% into your brewhouse efficiency box (0.8 * 0.6).
3. Rename the recipe and save as 1st runnings. Then you can enter your hop bill.
4. Repeat with the second duplicate except multiply your typical Brewhouse efficiency by 40% and update the value for your second runnings recipe.
Apparently this method is good for the gravity calcs, but is a bit off on the colour calculation.

Cheers,

Joe
 
Joe Camel said:
Hey Revvy,

Glad to hear that your partigyle beers turned out nice, this is something I intend to do next spring when the weather warms up.
One thing I've found in my research that might help you in the future with your recipes in Beersmith, instead of making "virtual" recipes for each running by using 60% and 40% of the grainbill, try this:

1. Make your 6 gallon recipe for grainbill and mash calculations.
2. Make two duplicates of this recipe, open the first duplicate, which is to be your first runnings. Drop the batch size to 3 gallons but don't change the grainbill, instead multiply your typical brewhouse efficiency by 60% and enter that number into the brewhouse efficiency box. ie. if you currently get 80% efficiency, enter 48% into your brewhouse efficiency box (0.8 * 0.6).
3. Rename the recipe and save as 1st runnings. Then you can enter your hop bill.
4. Repeat with the second duplicate except multiply your typical Brewhouse efficiency by 40% and update the value for your second runnings recipe.
Apparently this method is good for the gravity calcs, but is a bit off on the colour calculation.

Cheers,

Joe
Click to expand...


So where the hell were you when warped and I had to figure out how to do the maths ourself???:D Seriously though thanks for the tip...your way seems MUCH easier!!!!

:mug:
 
Last week I poured the last of my Partigyle pumpkin Porters...Brewed on Labor Day, bottled 1 month later...First ones cracked on Halloween still green but carbed, so we drank a six whilst giving out candy...Left the rest alone til turkey day, and my family loved them, and I've drank a few now and then...But this one sat...until now, bottled on October first...Consumed 3 months later...

When it was green, even though it was carbed, you got a hot alcohol burn, and a really funky sourness from the pumpkin in the back of the throat..and way too much spice, especially the clove....Not undrinkable, but far from wonderful,

The last one was amazing, and sublime; the pumpkin and spice are nicely balanced, somewhat tart against a backbone of a deep rich burnt caramel and toffee note, with even a black coffee hint coming through. Nothing overwhelms, instead they meld together seamlessly.

There's a nice blend of both carbonation and a lingering mouth feel, and a deliciously seductive nose of toffee and cloves.

I would without hesitation pay 9 bucks for a 22 of this if it had the name Rogue, or Stone on it....and it kicked the ass of any pumpkin ales in the stores last October. This beer right now is at it's peak....and it was the last one.

Oh well...:D

I think I will brew this one again without the pumpkin...they were really nice strong ales. ANd probably next summer I'll brew this again for next Halloween, only not a splt 5 gallon batch but a 10 gallon batch split in half.
 
Warped04 said:
So are you giving up on party-gyle style of brewing or just not for this beer in general?
Click to expand...

No, I said in my last post that I would try it both ways..I'd do a batch without the pumpkin and spices (another split batch) and next year try this again only doing 5 gallons of each....

It's fun....and damn it tasted good...

You know, I may want to plan the pumbkin brew for early summer...and let it have nearly 6 months to mellow and age...

But that would be really really organized on my part...and I'm not that good...

oooh...maybe I'll do this at Yooper's brewcamp this summer...THat way I'll have help..and I can do this as a demo....

WoW!
 
LakeErieBrew said:
Wow, this is a cool thread. I'm going to put a party-gyle on the "things to brew" list.
Click to expand...

Thanks! There's a lot of threads on here about it...But I think mines less "technical" than some of the other ones, and since it happened in "real time" you can see how I absolutely had no clue how to get my math deficient head around it....and through the discussion and playing around I suddenly got it.

With a lot of hand holding from my friends!!!:mug:

This is sort of the idiot's guide to partiguile thread created by one. :D
 
Looks good Revvy. I think I'll be ready to to try this come this summer and will steal, I mean borrow your recipe and what not.
Although I may just do 5G of each. assuming my MashTun will handle the bill. I'll have to go back and look at the final recipe.

hmm 13.5 lbs for a overall 5G batch. I had a grain of of 20lbs last weekend and I don't know if I could fit another 7lbs plus 8.75G of water in there.
 
IrregularPulse said:
Looks good Revvy. I think I'll be ready to to try this come this summer and will steal, I mean borrow your recipe and what not.
Although I may just do 5G of each. assuming my MashTun will handle the bill. I'll have to go back and look at the final recipe.
Click to expand...

Thanks, just remember when you come back to it and start playing with numbers this is for two- 2.5 gallon batches, so everything's doubled in regular size batches.
 
i recently did a parti gyle a triple at 1.080 and a honey ale with 3 lbs of orange blossom honey at 1.070, i did not check the gravity of the smaller ale before i added the honey but all the numbers were hit on the triple and i figured at least it would be 1.045 before the honey, the brew day was awesome! the mash tun was maxed out and thick. i sparged the **** out of it for a good 45 min. the triple is still fermenting slowly two weeks later, the honey ale is still going as well. the following weekend i brewed a big brown at 1.066 and this sunday i will transfer the brown to secondary and put a huge porter maybe at 1.100 on the wlp bedford british ale yeast cake. i will steep the dark and roasted grains in the keggle and do a hopefully 1.057 lager with cascade hops and wlp 802 budofjovice. i am excited and wanted to post!
 
sully said:
i recently did a parti gyle a triple at 1.080 and a honey ale with 3 lbs of orange blossom honey at 1.070, i did not check the gravity of the smaller ale before i added the honey but all the numbers were hit on the triple and i figured at least it would be 1.045 before the honey, the brew day was awesome! the mash tun was maxed out and thick. i sparged the **** out of it for a good 45 min. the triple is still fermenting slowly two weeks later, the honey ale is still going as well. the following weekend i brewed a big brown at 1.066 and this sunday i will transfer the brown to secondary and put a huge porter maybe at 1.100 on the wlp bedford british ale yeast cake. i will steep the dark and roasted grains in the keggle and do a hopefully 1.057 lager with cascade hops and wlp 802 budofjovice. i am excited and wanted to post!
Click to expand...



:mug:

Ain't partigyling fun?!?!?!

I've got to add another to my to brew list...
 

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