first time kegging, co2 out overnight

I tried kegging for the first time last night. I thought everything went well until I checked it 5 minutes ago.

The tank is completely out already.

Since this was my first time and I'm only going on what I've read and basic intuition, I'm sure there were lots of areas I could have goofed.

I did a lot of cleaning and using the co2 to flush the keg and lines, but that can't be it.

One thing I thought was weird, was the tank pressure on the regulator was already in the red when I first attached it. I have to assume the welding shop correctly did it though, right?

One thing I saw while reading was something about a washer between the regulator and the tank? For my set up I just had the regulator spinny nut thing screw onto the tank. That's how it was given to me, so I didn't question it.

I guess I can check for leaks once I get more co2, but should I tell the people at the welding shop I think they may have shorted me, or will I just look like a jerk?

Also, since I don't currently have co2 flowing to my keg, will that 'hurt' or disrupt any of the conditioning?

Just disconnect the gas QD from the keg and let it sit in the fridge.

What did the high pressure gauge read when you connected it all up (fresh)? Is this at room temp, or cooler? You should have at least a plastic spacer/washer between the tank and the regulator. Check at the LHBS for one (they're cheap). You can also check for leaks by charging the system and then turning off the tank valve. If the regulator gauges drop, you have a leak. Give it an hour before checking and see if the levels change. To locate the leak, start turning items off from the keg back to the regulator/tank.

I had a leak recently, that was actually the o-ring insert I had put into the tank outlet. I replaced it with a new one and everything has been fine since. So even the ones that are supposed to be perm, might not be.

BTW, what size is the tank you have? A standard fill on a 5# tank will read about 800 psi at room temp. To really know if you've been shorted, weigh the tank before you connect it up to anything. It should have a 'tare' weight listed on it around the top section. Subtract that from the total weight. If it's not the gas weight that should be in it, you've been shorted.

EDIT

I went to go check on the keg for some more investigating.

When I pulled the release, unfortunately no pressure.

So what I gather from that is there is definitely a leak revolving around the keg.

Get a new o-ring set and see what happens?

They were reconditioned kegs, so I assumed they swapped out the o-ring for new ones

You likely have a leak, it's a sad reality of being a newbie to kegging, you will likely lose a tank or two to a leak. You can easily lose a 10# tank overnight from just a tiny leak somewhere in the system, and no, there would NOT still be pressure in the keg if it leaked out. The only way your keg would still be pressurized is if you had disconnected it before everything leaked out.

There should be a nylon washer in where you connect the regulator to the tank, if you don't have one, check there first for a leak when you get the new tank. The high pressure gauge could be reading in the red because the tank was in the fridge (or still very cold from being filled), or if it was leaking at the tank, you might never have hit higher than a couple hundred PSI at the gauge.

You can usually locate those mysterious leaks by charging your system to about 30psi (on the low pressure side) and then listening for leaks.

What type of clamps do you have on the hoses? If worm clamps, check to make sure they're tight. If Oetiker clamps, which were installed by the LHBS, you should be fine. Personally, I would advise against worm clamps. They can be very prone to leak, a pain to get to clamp fully, and will cut you quicker than you'd think. Oetiker clamps grab all the way around the fitting (full 360 degree coverage) so pretty much leak free once crimped. Plus they won't cut you when installed. I had leaks with worm clamps early on. Went over to Oetiker clamps and haven't had a leaky hose connection since.

finlayj said:

EDIT

I went to go check on the keg for some more investigating.

When I pulled the release, unfortunately no pressure.

So what I gather from that is there is definitely a leak revolving around the keg.

Get a new o-ring set and see what happens?

They were reconditioned kegs, so I assumed they swapped out the o-ring for new ones

Click to expand...

Might not be at the keg. If you lost pressure/integrity in the CO2 system the pressure in the keg would have escaped at the same point. Get your tank filled, get the spacer for the regulator, and then test the system before you leave it connected. That's the ONLY way you'll really find the leak and correct it.

Golddiggie said:

Might not be at the keg. If you lost pressure/integrity in the CO2 system the pressure in the keg would have escaped at the same point. Get your tank filled, get the spacer for the regulator, and then test the system before you leave it connected. That's the ONLY way you'll really find the leak and correct it.

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Will do.

I definitely heard gas leaking through the regulator/tank connection initially once the system was turned on, but then it seemed like it sealed/pressurized itself. Could be the culprit.

finlayj said:

Will do.

I definitely heard gas leaking through the regulator/tank connection initially once the system was turned on, but then it seemed like it sealed/pressurized itself. Could be the culprit.

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You should hear gas moving into the keg when you first charge the system. It should stop within moments though. If not, then you have a leak someplace (and probably a big one too).

I would also look for a fire extinguisher/appliance service/sales shop in your area. Those are places where you can typically get accurate CO2 fills for short money. Normal cost is about $10 for a 5# tank there. Welding gas shops have been known to charge over $20 to exchange (or fill) the same size tank. As you go up in tank size, the cost per pound of CO2 goes down. Such as $12 for a 10#, or $17 for a 20# tank.

Refill your tank and hook it back up. Turn the pressure to about 30 psi and spray soapy water on all of the fittings and connections. (Tank, hoses at both ends, quick connects and keg posts)

I put a brand new 4 way manifold into my keezer when I built it and lost about half of a 20lb tank over night. I did the soapy water trick and found that I had a bad relief valve. I replaced the relief valve with a plug and then found out that all of the brass connections on my manifold were leaking. I had to take it apart, re-tape it and tighten it all back up.

I just got my kegging setup, and just lost two tanks worth of gas! Three things in my case: one of the kegs has a bum gas poppet and is leaking; one of the gas connections (regulator to keg line) needed to be tightened a lot; and three, I didn't really understand that you need pressure to seal the keg lid BEFORE you lock it down. Hopefully I got everything this time....

CGVT said:

Refill your tank and hook it back up. Turn the pressure to about 30 psi and spray soapy water on all of the fittings and connections. (Tank, hoses at both ends, quick connects and keg posts)

I put a brand new 4 way manifold into my keezer when I built it and lost about half of a 20lb tank over night. I did the soapy water trick and found that I had a bad relief valve. I replaced the relief valve with a plug and then found out that all of the brass connections on my manifold were leaking. I had to take it apart, re-tape it and tighten it all back up.

Click to expand...

ong said:

I just got my kegging setup, and just lost two tanks worth of gas! Three things in my case: one of the kegs has a bum gas poppet and is leaking; one of the gas connections (regulator to keg line) needed to be tightened a lot; and three, I didn't really understand that you need pressure to seal the keg lid BEFORE you lock it down. Hopefully I got everything this time....

Click to expand...

Wow, two pretty bad cases of bad luck...

I did get a new manifold recently. I inspected it before going to use it for the first time. Didn't see any Teflon tape on the threaded connections, so I took it apart and added the tape. I also decided to modify it so that I could use a standard gas QD to connect it to a second manifold. I made SURE all the threaded fittings were in nice and tight before going to use it. It's been working like a champ from day one after that. I also altered another (two port) manifold so that I could use the same gas QD connection to go to the other one. Really like that option. Oh, and I put a gas post on the inlet side of the 3 port, so I don't need to do anything different to connect one of my CO2 regulators to it. :rockin: I'm thinking about getting another manifold (3 or 4 port) and doing the same thing with it. It really helps since I'm carbonating kegs in the basement. This way I can have pretty much ALL my spare kegs on CO2 carbonating (at least partially) while the brew fridge is full.

Use a spray bottle with water and dish soap in it. With the co2 turned on, spray all connections with it. If there is a leak you will see bubbles form. Where there is bubbles there is a leak.

Also, for giggles, check the liquid posts after you've charged your system. Make SURE you don't see any beer weeping from them. If you do, depressurize the keg and inspect the o-ring on the dip tube. If it looks worn (at all) change it. Very few things are worse than going to pull a pint of a really nice brew only to get air (or nothing since the CO2 tank is empty again). It gets worse when you open the brew fridge/keezer to find all the beer inside it.

Golddiggie said:

Wow, two pretty bad cases of bad luck...

I did get a new manifold recently. I inspected it before going to use it for the first time. Didn't see any Teflon tape on the threaded connections, so I took it apart and added the tape. I also decided to modify it so that I could use a standard gas QD to connect it to a second manifold. I made SURE all the threaded fittings were in nice and tight before going to use it. It's been working like a champ from day one after that. I also altered another (two port) manifold so that I could use the same gas QD connection to go to the other one. Really like that option. Oh, and I put a gas post on the inlet side of the 3 port, so I don't need to do anything different to connect one of my CO2 regulators to it. :rockin: I'm thinking about getting another manifold (3 or 4 port) and doing the same thing with it. It really helps since I'm carbonating kegs in the basement. This way I can have pretty much ALL my spare kegs on CO2 carbonating (at least partially) while the brew fridge is full.

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I tested mine with soapy water before I lost it all. The leak in the relief valve didn't bubble because of the way it was built. I only saw it when I removed the manifold from the wall of the keezer. When I found it, I replaced the valve with a plug and turned on the gas again. That's when I found the other leaks. Apparently the relief valve was leaking bad enough that there wasn't enough pressure to see the other leaks. After I got it all taped and tightened up it's been good.

I guess sometimes you can do things "right" and still have things go wrong

So many things to do! Thanks for all the help.

Once I full up I'll be sure to let everyone know what worked.

Appreciate it

Good luck.

None of my manifolds have relief valves. I have those on the kegs. I got the manifolds in my brew fridge (and almost my entire CO2 system) from Keg Connection. :rockin: Great people there, who really help out their customers either to figure out what to get, or how to trouble shoot if something's going sideways and you can't figure out why. Plus, they can special order things not on their site if you ask (I have, and do).

I had an elusive leak I could never find in one of my five kegs.

I ended up filling a trash can full of water and dipping each pressurized keg completely underneath. Fixed the leaks I found.

Then, I replaced all the post o-rings, added some keg lube to the disconnects and started pressurizing each keg and disconnecting it for one day. If it still has pressure after 24 hours, I hook it up - otherwise, I know to avoid it.

onthedot said:

I had an elusive leak I could never find in one of my five kegs.

I ended up filling a trash can full of water and dipping each pressurized keg completely underneath. Fixed the leaks I found.

Then, I replaced all the post o-rings, added some keg lube to the disconnects and started pressurizing each keg and disconnecting it for one day. If it still has pressure after 24 hours, I hook it up - otherwise, I know to avoid it.

Click to expand...

Hope you pressure tested empty kegs.

So I got the tank refilled and got the nylon washer, very easy.

Sprayed down with soapy water, and two leaks of course.

The quick connect on the line from the regulator to the gas manifold splitter is leaking slightly. I tried tightening it as much as possible, but I can still see some bubbles.

The main problem is the pressure release valve leaking like a sieve. When I cranked it up to 30, it really started going. I haven't used my second keg yet, so I tried just swapping out the lids. No go, this one leaks too.

Now what?

By quick connect you mean the swivel nut? you need to tighten these down with a wrench, they will definitely leak if you only hand tighten them.

As far as your pressure relief valve, I'm unsure which kind you have, if it's the smooth topped one, I'd remove it completely, make sure it actually has the gasket to form the seal on the plunger portion of the valve. If you have the valves with a grooved top, make sure the ring is situated so that it can slide into the recessed portion, if it's twisted so that it rests on the raised area, it is not sealing. Also make sure with these as well that there's a gasket on the end of the plunger to form the seal. If they're missing, or if you simply can't get these valves to seal, order some replacements.

If the leaking line connection is metal to metal you have to use one of these in there, so that it won't leak. If the relief valve on the keg is leaking, and it's not just stuck in a partially open position (closeup picture could help) then you need a replacement lid. The place you got the kegs from should supply you a good lid without making you bring it to them (if local). They might want the bad ones back, but you shouldn't have a leaking lid, by any stretch.

This is what I'm working with. I'm surprised that both kegs would have bad valves..

That's a different style than I have on my kegs. I have the flip release as well as the pull ring that's like these, or these.

Where did you get the kegs from? I hope there's no beer in the keg that's now topless. Or that you covered the opening with a sanitized cloth or paper towel at least.

Wait, when I look at those two links they look exactly the same as the picture I posted...?

And I have another lid on there first now, one with a flip release actually, and its leaking too

will the pressure release valve release pressure if it gets too high in the keg? like when I did it at 30, it was leaking, but I didn't see it leaking at 10...or at 10 psi was it just too low and I didn't notice it?

finlayj said:

will the pressure release valve release pressure if it gets too high in the keg? like when I did it at 30, it was leaking, but I didn't see it leaking at 10...or at 10 psi was it just too low and I didn't notice it?

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It's designed to trigger when the pressure in the keg reaches unsafe levels. Since they're rated for 130psi, it shouldn't do anything until close to that. I think I've hit mine with 30psi before, but it was usually just to seat a troublesome lid, so it didn't stay at that pressure for long.

If you got these from a local store, call them or bring one lid to them (if you have a spare you can use in the interim). If you got them via the web, contact the vendor and see what they want you to do. I've gotten most of my kegs from Rebel Brewer (brand new kegs) with a couple from a local person. None have had any issues. Something does seem a bit hickey for you to have three lids that have the same issue.

Could it be the pressure release spring is old? Maybe not strong enough?

I'm just struggling to figure out what's going on. I put some sealant tape on the thread to see if that helped...nope.

I emailed the guy I got it from, see if he has any suggestions.

finlayj said:

Could it be the pressure release spring is old? Maybe not strong enough?

I'm just struggling to figure out what's going on. I put some sealant tape on the thread to see if that helped...nope.

I emailed the guy I got it from, see if he has any suggestions.

Click to expand...

So these were a local purchase from someone that's not a store? Without knowing they were tested and determined to be 100% leak free, you could be trying to figure this out for a while. If the LHBS is open tomorrow pick up a replacement lid (new or used) and try it out. If you grab an used one, make sure it's 100% at least up to about 40psi. You'll probably never push that much CO2 to the keg, but it's easier to find leaks at higher pressures than lower ones. Check with the guys at the LHBS (if they also keg) to see what they think of the lids.

Oh by guy I meant the guy at the shop I bought it from, kegglebrewing.com

lucky for me, they are in the area.

unfortunately my lhbs isn't open on Sunday or Mondays...then Tuesday is Christmas...may not fix this until Wednesday.

The shop I originally got the kegs from just sent me new pressure relief valves...worked perfectly.

I raised the pressure to 30 and no leaks!

Great success. Thanks for the ideas everyone.

I got some kegs from midwest today since there was a brief sale. Now I can make more!