How to get Motor Oil black color.

Hey all. Im trying to figure out how to get that super dark, motor oil black color in my imperial stout. Think Sierra Nevada Narwhal, Firestone Walker Parabola, etc.

Parabola hovers in the 160 SRM range. I'm trying to figure out how I can get this without getting crazy astringent flavors from excessive dark malts.

Here is my current recipe for my Imperial Stout:

Imperial Stout (11 gallon)
Maris Otter (23 lbs)
Roasted Barley (2 lbs)
Crystal 120 (2 lbs)
Black Barley (1 lb)
Chocolate Malt (1 lb)
White Wheat (1 lb)
Dark Extract (10 lbs)

Since I only care about the color right now I wont divulge anymore information unless you think it's necessary.

Beer Tools Pro calculates this out to a 38 SRM which isnt quite that cant-see-any-light-through-it dark color that I'm looking for. Suggestions?

Thanks.

toss some carafa III in?

You need grain that adds darkness without adding bitterness. Debittered Belgian Black malt is ultimate in my experience, but also MoreBeer has a new malt called Black Prinz that is supposed to also be very good. I have some, but haven't used it yet.

Maybe sub in some black wheat in place of the white? http://www.ritebrew.com/product-p/806862.htm

I think Briess also has a black wheat that isn't supposed to add any roasted flavor. Maybe replace the white wheat with that?

Yep, midnight wheat or chocolate wheat will work. I've also had good success with adding a good portion of dark grains at the end of the mash. You get the color and not all the roasted flavor.

Sinamar

Midnight wheat is great.

WesleyS said:

Yep, midnight wheat or chocolate wheat will work. I've also had good success with adding a good portion of dark grains at the end of the mash. You get the color and not all the roasted flavor.

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A good idea for those dark grains is to use what you need in the mash too hit your necessary pH then cold steep the rest. This extracts color and flavor but little harshness. There is no or very little fermentables in dark roasted grains.

bottlebomber said:

You need grain that adds darkness without adding bitterness. Debittered Belgian Black malt is ultimate in my experience, but also MoreBeer has a new malt called Black Prinz that is supposed to also be very good. I have some, but haven't used it yet.

Click to expand...

Black prinz is great. I've used it a few times for color. It's a little darker than caraffa III and there is a touch of roast, but no astringent flavors.

WesleyS said:

Yep, midnight wheat or chocolate wheat will work. I've also had good success with adding a good portion of dark grains at the end of the mash. You get the color and not all the roasted flavor.

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How much time left in the mash do you add?

jasonsbeer said:

How much time left in the mash do you add?

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I add it with about 10 minutes left.

Carafa III or Midnight wheat malt. I love midnight wheat malt as it accomplishes two things...color and head retention.

WesleyS said:

I add it with about 10 minutes left.

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So if I add say 5 lbs of Carafa III in the last 10 minutes of my mash I would obtain lots of color and very little in the way of flavors, correct?

bb239605 said:

A good idea for those dark grains is to use what you need in the mash too hit your necessary pH then cold steep the rest. This extracts color and flavor but little harshness. There is no or very little fermentables in dark roasted grains.

Click to expand...

So with cold steeping, where/when do I add this liquid? Mash tun as part of strike water? I'd be worried about adding it to the boil kettle as I don't want it to thin the beer out. Is the water to grain ratio about the same when cold steeping (1-1.5 q per lb grain)?

Swapped out the white wheat for Midnight wheat, thanks for that idea, all!

mrrshotshot said:

So if I add say 5 lbs of Carafa III in the last 10 minutes of my mash I would obtain lots of color and very little in the way of flavors, correct?

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Whatever you do, don't do that. We're talking on the order of 0.5 lbs. Using carafaIII for like 30-50% of your grain bill would not be a good idea.

Weyermann's Sinamar. Color sin amar (no bitterness).

You know you're gonna' hafta' show us this black gold when it's finished don't ya.

tgmartin000 said:

Whatever you do, don't do that. We're talking on the order of 0.5 lbs. Using carafaIII for like 30-50% of your grain bill would not be a good idea.

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K well now I'm a bit confused. Ya see, adding that much carafaIII (5 lbs) brought the srm from like 34 to 55. So how does a brewery like Firestone walker go about getting an srm of 160 without adding crazy huge amounts of black malts.

Sinamar? Is this the answer?

NivekD said:

You know you're gonna' hafta' show us this black gold when it's finished don't ya.

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Will do haha. Im kegging it on Fri but it's only the 34 srm version.

Maybe a better question is, what srm gives that cant-see-nothin'-through-it color I'm looking for?

Idk where the line is, but 33SRM is black as night

bovineblitz said:

Idk where the line is, but 33SRM is black as night

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Hmmm maybe I'll have to wait and see its pour. I tried about a shot worth a week ago from a wine thief and it seemed like more of a deep brown/black.

They're using a different scale if it's that high. Black is black...

Most likely Sinamar but I'll note that 10% roast barley in a stout gives me 84 SRM. Not much light comes through that.

seabass07 said:

They're using a different scale if it's that high. Black is black...

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That list looks familiar. I'm curious as to where you came across it and also how the color patches were generated.

ajdelange said:

Most likely Sinamar but I'll note that 10% roast barley in a stout gives me 84 SRM. Not much light comes through that.

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Wow. I'm curious about that beer, 10% roasted barley seems like a crazy amount to me.

ajdelange said:

That list looks familiar. I'm curious as to where you came across it and also how the color patches were generated.

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The most reliable source on the internet...google image search for srm scale.

You're looking for Carafa III Special. It's dehusked so you don't get the astringency.

seabass07 said:

The most reliable source on the internet...google image search for srm scale.

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That doesn't work for me - lots of images but not that one. I do know where the numbers came from originally - me. I just wondered who had put the color patches to them and what method he had used to translate from SRM to color since the mapping depends on other things besides the SRM.

bovineblitz said:

Wow. I'm curious about that beer, 10% roasted barley seems like a crazy amount to me.

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That's pretty much the standard for dry stout. See Lewis's monograph in the AHA series. That level gives nice coffee notes without being at all harsh.

ajdelange said:

That doesn't work for me - lots of images but not that one. I do know where the numbers came from originally - me. I just wondered who had put the color patches to them and what method he had used to translate from SRM to color since the mapping depends on other things besides the SRM.

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I just plucked it from GIS. It's on imgur with a title giving credit to you for the table.
http://imgur.com/reXm3

ajdelange said:

That's pretty much the standard for dry stout. See Lewis's monograph in the AHA series. That level gives nice coffee notes without being at all harsh.

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Just got done designing and brewing a vanilla coffee stout using just about a 10% addition of black barley and even though it just started fermentation it has an awesome coffee note to it with no harshness. Can't wait for it to finish.

Deleted: double post.

NivekD said:

You know you're gonna' hafta' show us this black gold when it's finished don't ya.

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Here it is! Brewed on 1-4-13. Still gonna benefit from being in the bottle but tastes mighty good now. Big coffee notes! A little undercarbed but it's a stout so I don't mind. Entering this into a competition next month.

Looks about the same color as my vanilla coffee stout

http://instagr.am/p/WKueHkuydu/

Which is at about 36º srm

What was your final call on the dark grain?
I used a combo of Black Barley and Chocolate and a touch of 80L

Nightshade said:

Looks about the same color as my vanilla coffee stout

http://instagr.am/p/WKueHkuydu/

Which is at about 36º srm

What was your final call on the dark grain?
I used a combo of Black Barley and Chocolate and a touch of 80L

Click to expand...

The recipe for this one is what was used in the OP. I havent changed the recipe yet as I'm waiting to see what happens when it gets judged. It definitely needs more body/mouthfeel. I'm actually pretty happy with the color. It's around 34 SRM.

EDIT: By the way, your stout looks delicious!

Let us know how you do in the comp, it looks great and I am sure it tastes as good as it looks.

Thanks for the compliment, it was my first time using lactose so I was a bit nervous but it worked just fine.

Well, the competition was last night and we're pretty happy with our results!

We entered two American Pale Ales (same wort, different yeasts) that didn't do so hot. One tied for 21st, the other tied for 12th out of 35 entries.

We also entered two Stouts (the one in this thread but again, same wort, different yeasts). One of them placed 5th and the other placed 3rd out of 26 entries!

Our 3rd place entry was judged by two non certified judges. And our 5th place entry was judged by Professional Brewer Rob Kent (A Google search says a Rob Kent is the head brewer of Uinta in Salt Lake City UT. This competition was in CA so not sure if its the same Rob Kent but it's all I could find) and Beer Sommelier Cami Kent (Guessing husband and wife team).

Our 5th place entry got an overall 38.5 score placing it as excellent. Rob Kents overall impression was "Nice well rounded beer. Could use a little more fullness and mid range bitterness" He also noted a small presence of DMS which is an issue were currently working on with our burner.
Cami Kents overall impression was "Very nice! Actually one of the best I've had today. I wish I had more of this one." (Needless to say Cami is my favorite now). Cami also noted low DMS levels.

Our 3rd place entry got an overall 41 also putting it into the excellent category. One judges overall impression was "Very nice beer, rich and complex, balanced." The other judge thought "Strong mouthfeel warming alcohol feel well balanced tastes." This judge thought it to be a little Astringent.

Overall I'm pretty happy! Took home a little baby ribbon for the 3rd place entry hahaha but it's still cool and makes me want to brew a batch right now!