Clone SN Tumbler...Help!

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Germelli1

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If you haven't had this seasonal brew yet, I recommend you may try it. It is just exactly what I wanted from a brown ale, and I found it to be amazing.

Anyway, I want to try and clone it, and want some help from anyone who has drank it this year!

From the site i find the following info:

alcohol content 5.5% by volume
yeast Ale Yeast
beginning gravity 13.6 Plato
ending gravity 3.5 Plato
bitterness units 37
bittering hops Challenger
finishing hops Challenger & Yakima Goldings
malts Two-row Pale, Crystal, Chocolate & Smoked


I don't have any beer software so I am having trouble figuring out how much of each malt to use to achieve the flavor/gravity.

Any input is greatly appreciated!
 
I had it at OBF and BBF, and I'll be picking some up at WinCo soon. Delicious beer.

I think the key to a clone attempt is going to be roasting some of your own malt. The smoked malt is going to be 5% or less of the grain bill- I did a smoked amber with 3%, and Tumbler had slightly more smokiness. As a guesstimate, I would say something like 80/10/5/5% pale/caramel 40 or 60/chocolate/smoked.

Edit: Maybe something like this?

Est Original Gravity: 1.054 SG
Est Final Gravity: 1.013 SG
Estimated Alcohol by Vol: 5.30 %
Bitterness: 37.6 IBU
Est Color: 22.2 SRM


8.00 lb Pale Malt (2 Row) US (2.0 SRM) Grain 80.00 %
1.00 lb Caramel/Crystal Malt - 60L (60.0 SRM) Grain 10.00 %
0.50 lb Chocolate Malt (350.0 SRM) Grain 5.00 %
0.50 lb Smoked Malt (9.0 SRM) Grain 5.00 %
1.00 oz Challenger [7.50 %] (60 min) Hops 26.6 IBU
0.50 oz Goldings, East Kent [5.00 %] (15 min) Hops 4.4 IBU
0.50 oz Challenger [7.50 %] (15 min) Hops 6.6 IBU
1 Pkgs American Ale (Wyeast Labs #1056) Yeast-Ale

That should be a starting point, anyway. It's been a while since I had the beer, and I haven't had it sober yet. :p
 
I was listening the brewing network interview with the brewmaster a SN, he said the smoke is <1%. Very, very subtle smoke.
 
Thanks a ton for the inputs guys. I was actually surprised there was smoked in there when I saw it on the website. I never tasted it in the brew (guess I wont be a judge any time soon haha).

Just to be sure, the crystal, chocolate and smoked malts DON'T need mashed right? Just hoping it is as easy of an extract/grain conversion as I think it is.
 
I was listening the brewing network interview with the brewmaster a SN, he said the smoke is <1%. Very, very subtle smoke.

That surprises me. I definitely tasted it in the beer, though that might be because I had recently brewed a beer with smoked malt and recognized the flavor addition in low doses. Mine was 3%- being able to taste it at 1% makes me wonder how much more flavorful freshly smoked malt is as compared to more stale stuff from a bin at the homebrew shop.
 
Oh, yeah. He did say the smoked a portion of it on site before brewing. Tumbler is also fairly fresh, I bet if you taste it in a couple weeks it won't be as noticeable. Smoke drops significantly with age.
 
Ya, I am going to order it online so I am trying to decide if I want the smoked crushed or not. I am planning on letting this age a bit so I am thinking about using roughly 5% smoke like you all suggested and letting it mellow out with age. Now I will just be waiting on my pacman to step up so I can make slants and for my orders to come in.

Thanks for your inputs and any in the future!
 
Brewed up a version today before seeing this post.

5 gallon batch..numbers are pretty close but according to BeerSmith a little more bitter.

9# - 2-row
1 # - Crystal 20
1# - Weyermann Smoked Malt
.5# - Chocolate Malt

1 oz. Challenger - 60 min
.5 oz Challenger - 15 min
.5 oz Goldings - 15 min
.5 oz Challenger - 10 min
.5 oz Goldings - 10 min

I tasted it after mashing and it was damn good, very VERY subtle smoke. I used London ESB as I'm really into that yeast as of late, great floc and really lets the malts/hops shine.

OG was 1.060 so I'm a bit high from the SN website, but that's ok, it should taste good. Also, this is my first time using Smoke Malt. As it turns out, there are a vast number of options and some are very mild (Weyermann), while others pack the same punch in much smaller amounts.

I will update after primary fermentation.
 
Brewed up a version today before seeing this post.

5 gallon batch..numbers are pretty close but according to BeerSmith a little more bitter.

9# - 2-row
1 # - Crystal 20
1# - Weyermann Smoked Malt
.5# - Chocolate Malt

1 oz. Challenger - 60 min
.5 oz Challenger - 15 min
.5 oz Goldings - 15 min
.5 oz Challenger - 10 min
.5 oz Goldings - 10 min

I tasted it after mashing and it was damn good, very VERY subtle smoke. I used London ESB as I'm really into that yeast as of late, great floc and really lets the malts/hops shine.

OG was 1.060 so I'm a bit high from the SN website, but that's ok, it should taste good. Also, this is my first time using Smoke Malt. As it turns out, there are a vast number of options and some are very mild (Weyermann), while others pack the same punch in much smaller amounts.

I will update after primary fermentation.
Any update? After having some this weekend I want to brew some, great beer.
 
ok, racked tonight. gravity came down to 1.012 which was surprising, i mashed at 153.5 (new thermometer, maybe it needs adjusting). my ABV is 6.3% which is high, but i'm ok with that.

surprisingly, the smoke really comes through. i wasn't going for that, i would back off the smoked malt by 1/2 and just use 1/2 lb. otherwise, it's pretty godamn delicious. i bought 12 oz. Tumbler tonight that i'll be drinking tomorrow to see how close i am. the last time i drank one was a few weeks ago but i think it's close. color is good and dark.
 
kegged yesterday, won't be tapping until 9/23 as i'm trying the slow-carb method on this batch. i have a 12 oz of Tumbler to compare side by side with the girlfriend.
 
FWIW, here is the Tumbler information from OBF:

Sierra Nevada uses malt within days of roasting at the peak of its flavor to give Tumbler a gracefully smooth malt character. Two-row pale, crystal 40, chocolate and smoked malts give it a malty complexity. Challenger hops in the boil add balancing bitterness, while more Challengers and some Goldings give just enough hop flavor in the finish to balance all that malt.

The rauchmalt you get online or at the LHBS will not be as fresh as SN, so I would definitely use more than 1%. And while it doesn't mention it, Tumbler uses SN's Cal/Chico yeast.

I recently brewed a dark mild that tastes a lot like Tumbler without the finishing hops. My recipe used 10% Crystal 80L, 6.7% Rauchmalt and 3.3% Chocolate. My beer also used 6.7% Victory and 6.7% Rye, but still close in flavor.

Cheers!
Kevin
 
Thanks for the added info Kevin. I am going to give this a whirl with pacman when my schedule allows for it. I have a Dead guy clone (first AG batch) fermenting as well as a caramel vanilla ale both on pacman that I harvested from Rouge. I also have another starter and 6 jars of washed yeast so I am set!
 
FWIW, here is the Tumbler information from OBF:

Sierra Nevada uses malt within days of roasting at the peak of its flavor to give Tumbler a gracefully smooth malt character. Two-row pale, crystal 40, chocolate and smoked malts give it a malty complexity. Challenger hops in the boil add balancing bitterness, while more Challengers and some Goldings give just enough hop flavor in the finish to balance all that malt.

The rauchmalt you get online or at the LHBS will not be as fresh as SN, so I would definitely use more than 1%. And while it doesn't mention it, Tumbler uses SN's Cal/Chico yeast.

I recently brewed a dark mild that tastes a lot like Tumbler without the finishing hops. My recipe used 10% Crystal 80L, 6.7% Rauchmalt and 3.3% Chocolate. My beer also used 6.7% Victory and 6.7% Rye, but still close in flavor.

Cheers!
Kevin

I used about 8.5% Rauchmalt and it has a very nice smoke flavor.
 
I'm brewing today.

Est Original Gravity: 1.052 SG
Est Final Gravity: 1.012 SG
Estimated Alcohol by Vol: 5.11 %
Bitterness: 39.1 IBU
Est Color: 24.4 SRM

8.00 lb Pale Malt (2 Row)
1.00 lb Caramel/Crystal Malt - 40L
0.75 lb Chocolate Malt
0.50 lb Smoked Malt

1.00 oz Challenger [7.50 %] (60 min) 25.1 IBU
1.00 oz Challenger [7.50 %] (10 min) 9.1 IBU
1.00 oz Goldings, East Kent [4.00 %] (10 min) 4.9 IBU

Danstar Nottingham
 
I had to read this thread since I am sitting here drinking some Tumbler right now. Great beer! I am usually not a fan of any beer with smoked malt in it but in this beer the subtle smoke really adds to the blend of the flavors.

I am anxious to see what results your attempts to clone this brew will bring. I would love to brew something like this but I am too new at AG to attempt something like this on my own.

Good luck!
 
ok, i tapped it about 6 days early, rough week/day at work.

i think it's close, really damn close.

it has an awesome brown head and pours beautifully from the keg. slightly under-carbed at this point but it's still delicious. i take back what i said about the smoked malt, it's just fine. i think when tasting it in the primary while it's at room temp it comes through more, now that it's chilled it's much more subtle.

this beer will without a doubt become part of my rotation. i'm gonna do the side/side with Tumbler when the g/f is home next week, then i'll update.
 
ok, i tapped it about 6 days early, rough week/day at work.

i think it's close, really damn close.

it has an awesome brown head and pours beautifully from the keg. slightly under-carbed at this point but it's still delicious. i take back what i said about the smoked malt, it's just fine. i think when tasting it in the primary while it's at room temp it comes through more, now that it's chilled it's much more subtle.

this beer will without a doubt become part of my rotation. i'm gonna do the side/side with Tumbler when the g/f is home next week, then i'll update.

Hows the color between, yours and a Tumbler?
 
Hows the color between, yours and a Tumbler?

color looks black when in a large glass. i poured it tonight into a 6 oz tasting glass and it is definitely a dark brown. i might be a hair darker than Tumbler but i can't say for certain until i do the side by side.

also, i should say that the head and head retention is fantastic. lacing all the way down the glass and the head stay at about 1/2" all the way down.
 
i really like this beer but dont have any of the hops needed but have a ton of saaz, hallauter, magnum, willamette, and cascade. Could i use any of these as replacements?
 
This looks fantastic. I had a Tumbler for the first time Friday without having heard about it before and it really impressed me. To me, it was like 50% brown and 50% ESB. I didn't even percieve the smoke flavor, but it did have a nice, round complexity. I think I'll try this next myself.
 
ekjohns:
I'd use the Magnum for bittering adjust for the higher AA% and the Willamette for flavor and aroma
 
Im brewing an 18 gallon batch this on Saturday:

30.0 lb Maris Otter Pale Ale Malt
3.0 lb Crystal Malt 90°L
3.0 lb Smoked Malt
1.5 lb Chocolate Malt
3.0 oz Challenger (8.0%) - added during boil, boiled 60 min
1.5 oz East Kent Goldings (5.0%) - added during boil, boiled 15 min
1.5 oz Challenger (8.0%) - added during boil, boiled 15 min
0.75 oz East Kent Goldings (5.0%) - added during boil, boiled 10 min
0.75 oz Challenger (8.0%) - added during boil, boiled 10 min
3.0 ea WYeast 1056 American Ale

I'm looking forward to it since I really enjoyed this beer when I tried it. Im going to mash at 155.
 
Alright, going to pick up my ingredients today for a 5gal batch:

8.5 lbs Pale Malt
1.0 lbs Smoked malt (weyermans)
1.0 lbs British Crystal 5-60
0.4 lbs Pale Chocolate Malt

1.5oz Challenger @ 60
1.0oz Challenger @ 10
1.0oz EKG @ 10

Fermentis S-04

Mash at 155F, ferment at 65F.
 
Alright, going to pick up my ingredients today for a 5gal batch:

8.5 lbs Pale Malt
1.0 lbs Smoked malt (weyermans)
1.0 lbs British Crystal 5-60
0.4 lbs Pale Chocolate Malt

1.5oz Challenger @ 60
1.0oz Challenger @ 10
1.0oz EKG @ 10

Fermentis S-04

Mash at 155F, ferment at 65F.
I brewed this in late sept, but IMO cut the smoke in half even 6oz. and add 1/2 lbs of pale to make up for it. I used 8oz of smoked and it was extreme, smoke at first its mellowing out now, but I cant imagine how long it take to mellow out a lbs of smoked malt.
 
I brewed this in late sept, but IMO cut the smoke in half even 6oz. and add 1/2 lbs of pale to make up for it. I used 8oz of smoked and it was extreme, smoke at first its mellowing out now, but I cant imagine how long it take to mellow out a lbs of smoked malt.

what smoked malt did you use? i used Weyerman and it was subtle. i know there are a few brands at my LHBS and they range from mild (Weyerman) to extreme (cherry smoked).
 
I went with 1# of the Weyerman based on my LHBS's advice that it would be very mild in this beer. I pitched last night after it sat in my no-chill for a couple of days. The hydro sample didn't taste particularly smokey, just a weird tangerine, sweet flavor. But then again, I never like the taste of unfermented wort, so I'm not worried. Can't wait for this to be done!
 
I kegged this, this weekend and man its smokey, I let it sit in the primary for a month and its way to smokey, Im going to let it sit for a while hopefully by christmas itll be good to go.
 
The amount of variability in the intensity of the smoked malt is interesting to me! I guess it's hard for the maltsters to get consistency across lots of batches.

Also, I wonder if the age of the smoked malt when you use it affects the smoke flavor. It seems likely that the older the malt gets, the more smoke flavor it would loose.
 
Pulled a hydro sample last night. Beer is at 1.020. I accidentally let it get down to 62F, hope I didn't stall the yeast. It's back up to 67F now.

Anyway, the sample I pulled did not taste smokey at all. The primary flavors were nice coffee notes from the pale chocolate, as well as the distinctive caramel flavor of British Medium Crystal. In fact, I sort of regret using that malt instead of the Crystal 20 now. It'll be good beer, but it won't be a Tumbler clone.

Just like Tumbler though, the sample had a complexity that I couldn't put my finger on. Definitely the smoked malt adds a hint of flavor that's hard to pick out.

I'll definitely be experimenting with 1-2lbs of Weyerman smoked malt in other beers, just to see what happens. Maybe a touch in an Alt Beer would be nice.
 
The amount of variability in the intensity of the smoked malt is interesting to me! I guess it's hard for the maltsters to get consistency across lots of batches.

Also, I wonder if the age of the smoked malt when you use it affects the smoke flavor. It seems likely that the older the malt gets, the more smoke flavor it would loose.

I think this is exactly the case. I brewed 2 gallon batch of a smoked wheat ale a while back that used 1 lb of Weyermann Rauchmalt. The malt had been sitting on the shelf at the LHBS for god knows how long in a premeasured bag. The beer was less smokey than a 5 gallon batch I've brewed using the same amount of smoked malt that had been stored airtight and dark.

Cheers!
Kevin
 
Yeah, I used the pre-measured 1 lb bag that looks like it was packaged by weyerman themselves. So you should ask your lhbs how often they turn over their smoked malt. If it doesn't move too fast, you might need to up the amounts.
 
any update on this, anyone actually complete a batch and have it ready to drink. I would love to find a good recipe for this. One of my favorite beers by far.
 
Not carbed yet, but I'm cold crashing mine. The hydro sample I drank 2 days ago tasted exactly like I remember Tumbler tasting at the bar. Brown ale roast on top of an ESB base is how it strikes me. Gimme a week and hopefully I'll have it crashed, kegged, carbed and compared to a real Tumbler.

Weird thing is that my version finished kinda high: 1.018-1.019. The sample tastes right on and it doesn't seem overly sweet, so I'm going to keg it.
 
I brewed this last week:

12 gallon batch:

21.3# Hugh Baird
1.0# Smoked Malt
2.5# Crystal 10L
1.7# Choc. Malt 200L

Don't know what happened, but somehow got home from the brew store with Pale Choc Malt??? My SRM looked more like 15 going into the kettle. oh well, it will still be beer and I bet I'll drink it:rockin:

Challenger/Goldings additions as previously described in this thread.

OG=1.056. Pitched WLP-001 and is currently fermenting at 68F.

I always let my ales go 30 days, so I should be kegging around 12/7. Standby.

:mug:
JR
 
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