New BYO Aussi brewing article

Daddymem said:

Would 7 gallons of water be my target total volume to get me down to 5 gallons of wort?

Depends on your pot size and flame (surface area) thats a good start (something you can tweak as you go)

Salt is included in the example BIAB recipe which is a schwarzbier, I don't think this is needed in my recipe, right?

I wouldnt over complicate your first AG...personally I would skip it unless your sure about your water chemistry.


What is the minimum acceptable temperature I can drop to during the 90 minute mash?

I would be happy from 154 for a start and maybe heat it up if its start getting around 148 (rember keeping it simple for first brew...but if you are anal say maybe 150

How would you calculate efficiency in BIAB?


With Brewing Software

Figure how much Potential gravity points you should have..... and what you actually ended up with (math...or promash) But you have to be sure of evaporation (finished Volume math) and fine tune it. Its all about tweaking your system.

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But YMMV...just rember to not over complicate your first AG. As long as your fermentation and sanitation are up to par, I'm sure the beer will be great either way.

Also be very carefull that bag does not touch the bottom of that pot....or you will be looking for a strainer....(go easy on heat with that bag in there...even up the sides of your pot)

dazed said:

Whats the spoon for? Or should I ask ...what is the Prop for?

More heat loss that way.

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It is in the instructions, I'm guessing it has to do with keeping a noobs eyes on what is going on with the thermometer.

Thanks guys. The evaporation would be during the boil mostly. Can I expect much during the mash? I have to build the passive oxide layer so I can calculate evaporation during the boil. I'm looking at Beersmith, I've seen some files for BIAB have been made. Now just have to wait for my stuff to arrive and find some voile to build the bag.

My version of the Aussie no chill fermentor...

Looks like PBW should be able to clean that with out much hassle after a fermentation....plus its white, so you probably can see if theres any junk afterwards with a stong light....be nice if they made those in clear....10 gallons?

dazed said:

Looks like PBW should be able to clean that with out much hassle after a fermentation....plus its white, so you probably can see if theres any junk afterwards with a stong light....be nice if they made those in clear....10 gallons?

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6 gallons... nothing clear in this size container

dazed said:

Looks like PBW should be able to clean that with out much hassle after a fermentation....plus its white, so you probably can see if theres any junk afterwards with a stong light....be nice if they made those in clear....10 gallons?

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If they were clear, they'd be PET and couldn't handle the temperature of boiling wort.

The Pol: looks like you plan to have some headspace in there, so you'll need to pitch yeast pretty much as soon as temperature drops into fermentation range. I'm sure you know (and I've probably already said it in this thread) but I'll say it again, just in case: we usually "cube" the wort into a vessel with no headspace to pack it oxygen-free. I have no doubt that what you're doing will work, tho.

The Pol said:

6 gallons... nothing clear in this size container

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Hey The Pol,

Have you checked the actual size? Just wondering if it's actually 22 or 23L or something. I've been looking for a container about 5.25 gallons in size (20L or so), because I'd fill that container full, then when cooled, pour the wort off of whatever trub was in there. I just figured if the 6 gallon is actually larger, the 5 gall would be too. I like the shape and handle on that design.

PoMo said:

If they were clear, they'd be PET and couldn't handle the temperature of boiling wort.

The Pol: looks like you plan to have some headspace in there, so you'll need to pitch yeast pretty much as soon as temperature drops into fermentation range. I'm sure you know (and I've probably already said it in this thread) but I'll say it again, just in case: we usually "cube" the wort into a vessel with no headspace to pack it oxygen-free. I have no doubt that what you're doing will work, tho.

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Yup, covered this a few times... 24 hour chill, then pitch. I figure I have had brews take 72 hours to start fermenting, so 24 hours is nothing big.

Competition results.

My BIAB American amber ale took first place at the Bluebonnet Brew-off.

It was very fresh and I was told by one of the final round judges that the decision between 1st and 2nd was the aroma was better on my beer.

Scores were mid 40s in second round.

My other BIAB entries generally scored in the 30s.

I think this is a very viable method of mashing. I will be adjusting my mash temps up a degree or two and working on a better insulation method to maintain a stable mash temp in the future.

BargainFittings said:

Competition results.

My BIAB American amber ale took first place at the Bluebonnet Brew-off.
.

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Nice. Did you cool by "normal" means or use no-chill? Also, just did a normal BIAB?

Nice to see some results!

bakins said:

Nice. Did you cool by "normal" means or use no-chill? Also, just did a normal BIAB?

Nice to see some results!

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I use an immersion chiller. This was my normal method except for the biab part.

Biab is my new normal method now!

I did some no chill experiments in the past but I've found the immersion chiller to give me the aroma I been looking for.

Any DMS issues when you did no chill? Seems to be the only thing I'm not convinced with one way or the other. Some say our domestic has a tendency for more DMS. I'm on the fence of getting a cube or buying/making a chiller...they're quite expensive.

I tested these #2 HDPE containers with 206 degree water and it held with no problem. I am going to try a batch using this for my cube:

https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f11/possible-source-free-2-plastic-jugs-101711/

I listened to the Jamil PodCast about DMS... and the "no chill" method... my musing on the podcast. BTW, I am no chill brewing this coming weekend. Look for muy results in the coming weeks at Brewer's Friend, home brewing resources

Okay, I listened to the podcast, I have a few observations:

#1. It was a great 60 minute commercial for the whirlpool chiller that they sell.

#2. They focussed a lot on the importance of a 90 minute boil, which I do as a normal process.

#3. They focussed a lot on half life of the DMS precursors and why long boils were important in that respect.

#4. They focussed a lot on how DMS is a much larger issue with Pilsner malt and short boils, together... because of precursors and half life of them.

#5. Thier last waning comments on bacteria, wild yeast etc. about the Aussie method are a moot point for me IMHO... I am not storing this wort, simple "no chilling" for 24 hours then pitching a starter. Some fermentations dont really kick off for 24-72 hours, so time is not the issue.

#6. They stated that typical lightly kilned malt like 2-row does not have nearly the ammount of precursor as Pilsner malt and that even in Pilsner malt the 90 minute boil with respect to the half life of the precursors, would eliminate much of the DMS issue.

#7. VIGOROUS BOIL... not a problem for me either, I boil off at a rate of 1.5gal/hour and do that for 90 minutes. My boils are probably about as good as they get with respect to minimizing DMS.

From thier podcast I got that long (90-100 min), vigorous boil is good. DMS not nearly as bad in 2-row pale as it is in Pilsner malt. Everyone NEEDS to buy a whirlpool chiller! DMS can still be produced down to as low as 170F... but the ammount will depend on the ammount of precursor left from the type of malt and type of boil. Again, 2-row and a vigorous 90 minute boil, not leaving that much.

DMS has a very low perception threshold, so it wil be easy to find in this beer that I am making which is very lightly hopped.

But, more than anything, I NEED a whirlpool chiller. Good ad though.

Pol

I gotta say, I agree with your summary whole heartedly...I've been feeling a compulsion to buy a whirlpool chiller ever since listening to that...nah

Did my first BIAB. It is happily percolating away in an aquarium warmed water bath in my cellar. All went well. The earth is still rotating, the sun has come up and gone down several times now, the wort tasted like wort. Only time will tell if I survive drinking it

Daddymem said:

Did my first BIAB. It is happily percolating away in an aquarium warmed water bath in my cellar. All went well. The earth is still rotating, the sun has come up and gone down several times now, the wort tasted like wort. Only time will tell if I survive drinking it

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I didnt see the PodCast saying anything I didnt already know and expect... you can produce DMS down to 170F... cool, but only if you have enough of the precursors left to make it a real issue.

It was more like an ad to me than it was anything else...

remilard said:

I'm interested in how you equate ppm of beta acids to bitterness in beer.

It is known that beta acids are not particularly soluble in wort, this is why the are ignored in every calculation of bitterness I have seen.

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Beta acids are only bitter when oxidized. Oxidized beta acids are included in regular IBU measurements--which are not mg of isomerized alpha acids/liter, contrary to what Palmer and others have written.

You can hear Palmer himself correcting this in the March 20, 2008 episode of Basic Brewing Radio entitled "What is an IBU, Really?"

That episode has a lot of interesting info on how beta acids bitterness differs qualitatively from alphas, and on how aging of hops may affect their flavor (and how the higher alpha-to-beta ratio of newer American C-hops and other high-alphas makes them age differently from older hop varieties).

Oxidized betas are absolutely important to the flavor and bittering of hops--that's why all professional hops list the beta percentage and alpha/beta ratio prominently alongside the AAUs.

Here is the "no chill" method put into practice...




=http://s168.photobucket.com/albums/u189/PolTavern/?action=view&current=P1020469.flv

Here is the "no chill" method put into practice...

How to brew it.



Yeast Orgy.
No Chill Ferment video by PolTavern - Photobucket

Looks great Pol! Great work on the video. I really enjoyed seeing your setup. Especially to the Blue Pages (I may have to pick up that album...) I may end up copying your setup, as I have the electric in my shop, but not the volume of gas... I love how clean and neat your system is.

Was the transfer at 189 degrees just where you ended after whirlpooling, or did you choose that temp intentionally?

chefmike said:

Looks great Pol! Great work on the video. I really enjoyed seeing your setup. Especially to the Blue Pages (I may have to pick up that album...) I may end up copying your setup, as I have the electric in my shop, but not the volume of gas... I love how clean and neat your system is.

Was the transfer at 189 degrees just where you ended after whirlpooling, or did you choose that temp intentionally?

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It is clean, neat, drip-less... no wacky wires and hoses and stuff flopping around, just concise. I dont like clutter, and I don't like it looking like a bunch of bits just tossed together.

The wort was at 189F after a 5 minute whirlpool, then I just cranked open the valve and drained off a quart for my starter, then the rest went into the container.

It is bubbling like MAD today and smells like candy.

For a BIAB thread this has FAR too many botulism & wort packing posts. No-chill is but a side issue of BIAB!

anemic said:

For a BIAB thread this has FAR too many botulism & wort packing posts. No-chill is but a side issue of BIAB!

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It is titled... NEW BYO Aussie Brewing Article.

Your post is WAY off topic...

Here is the obligatory hydro photo one week after the pitch.

I even tasted it.

It tasted JUST like this same beer did the last 6x I brewed it, go figure. No corn flavor and no CRAZY hoppiness. Now I have to wait to see if I survive the botulism scare!

Did you do a 90 minute boil and what malt did you use?

I used Rahr 2-Row for the base malt.

I always boil 90 minutes.

But... everyone on the interweb SWORE that there would be DMS and botulism issues.

Oh well... this is precisely why I dont take advice on the interweb from people that have not put thier ideas into practice.

The Pol said:

I used Rahr 2-Row for the base malt.

I always boil 90 minutes.

But... everyone on the interweb SWORE that there would be DMS and botulism issues.

Oh well... this is precisely why I dont take advice on the interweb from people that have not put thier ideas into practice.

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I have come across quite a bit of stuff on the internet that suggests the no-chill method should work fine if you use a 90 minute boil to remove the DMS from the wort before chilling. I think the issues people have with DMS and the no-chill method only apply to 60 min boils, in which case not all the DMS has had time to volatilize and escape the wort.

Glad to hear it worked out for you. I am very tempted to try this (especially during our lovely Canadian winters where I could probably chill 5 gals of wort outside in a snowbank in an hour or two).

Apparently the precursors for DMS are never "gone", but they have half lives... and with a 90 minute boil, enough of the precursors are destroyed, that DMS production seems to be a moot point.

Now, I tried arguing this, but again I was wrong.

I love how everyone gets to be right on the interweb

The Pol said:

I used Rahr 2-Row for the base malt.

I always boil 90 minutes.

But... everyone on the interweb SWORE that there would be DMS and botulism issues.

Oh well... this is precisely why I dont take advice on the interweb from people that have not put thier ideas into practice.

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Are you at least going to offer your straw man a beer?

remilard said:

Are you at least going to offer your straw man a beer?

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Straw man??

Strawman Fallacy.

I will offer Jamil and Palmer a drink anytime.

Along with the rest of the nay sayers in this thread alone.

The Pol said:

Apparently the precursors for DMS are never "gone", but they have half lives... and with a 90 minute boil, enough of the precursors are destroyed, that DMS production seems to be a moot point.

Now, I tried arguing this, but again I was wrong.

I love how everyone gets to be right on the interweb

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I believe you are correct. After 90 mins, there is so little SMM left in the wort that production and volatilization of DMS is a moot issue. Even after 60 mins, there is probably very little left in recipes that have a high proportion of high-kilned malts, since those malts contain very little SMM to begin with.

The Pol said:

I will offer Jamil and Palmer a drink anytime.

Along with the rest of the nay sayers in this thread alone.

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How bout those of us who WEREN'T nay sayers???



Those of us who maintained the the arguments were the typical bs that happens when a new idea is presented...you know, the "intellectual devil's advocate/conjecture/masturbation. Some of us were with you all along in light of the mere fact that they were doing it in OZ???



But I'm still in your will for your brewing rig, right? I mean you are in a high risk career after all.

Revvy said:

How bout those of us who WEREN'T nay sayers???

:rockin:

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Well, you are out of luck... you should disagree with me more!

Revvy... you are from MI, never noticed that, I dont think. I am from Mt. P originally.

And no, never spent time at the casino.

Hey Pol, I'm thinking of trying no chill for the Big Brew Day, will make it much easier since I'll be at someone else's house and this way I can make a starter with some of my wort and pitch the next day. How did you transfer the hot wort from the kettle to the fermenter? I do BIAB and I don't have a drain on my pot. I'd think my autosiphon would melt with boiling wort.

TIA

Daddymem said:

Hey Pol, I'm thinking of trying no chill for the Big Brew Day, will make it much easier since I'll be at someone else's house and this way I can make a starter with some of my wort and pitch the next day. How did you transfer the hot wort from the kettle to the fermenter? I do BIAB and I don't have a drain on my pot. I'd think my autosiphon would melt with boiling wort.

TIA

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Your syphon will melt.

I dont know what to tell you, my method is shown in my brewing video from April 11, 2009 CCB Brew Day.

I used my spigot and silicone hose to get to the BOTTOM of the HDPE container.

The Pol said:

I used Rahr 2-Row for the base malt.

I always boil 90 minutes.

But... everyone on the interweb SWORE that there would be DMS and botulism issues.

Oh well... this is precisely why I dont take advice on the interweb from people that have not put thier ideas into practice.

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I think saying "everyone" swore there would be problems is hyperbole. There were quite a few people who chimed in that never had problems with either. Not to beat a dead horse (or microbe) but by the end of the discussion, it seemed pretty clear that the oxygen permeability of HDPE would keep you from having a botulism-friendly environment for very long at all.

Personally I think it was a constructive discussion. There was a lot of good information shared.