Electric burners - Any builders out there?

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BTW: you can still do this with a single element installed in a single kettle. That would be lower cost over all and you only have to cut a hole in one kettle.

This is what I do.

Install heater in a kettle. Put copper coil in it. Mash, circulating through that coil and monitoring temp as the wort comes out of the coil. PID boost the heat of that installed element when necessary.

When mash is done, pump the hot water to another empty kettle to hold it temporarily and take the coil out of the kettle.

Pump mash tun contents to the electric kettle.

Pump hot water from that temporary holding tank into mash tun for sparge.

Pump mash tun contents to electric kettle to complete sparge.

Flip PID into manual mode and boil in that electric kettle.

Daaaang. That's a lot of work. I don't like work, I would rather build up my brewery to make the brew day more fun.

;)
 
Daaaang. That's a lot of work. I don't like work, I would rather build up my brewery to make the brew day more fun.

;)


How is that a lot of work? Compared to a HERMS that had a dedicated electric HLT, all I am doing is moving the coil one time (5 seconds of 'work') and doing an extra pumping step to move hot water from electric kettle to a temporary holding tank (2 minutes of 'work' that the pump does for me).

The alternative is to add another heater element, mounting hardware for the element in the kettle, power cord for the element, receptacle for the element inside the panel and then a selector switch to flip back and forth between the elements.

That adds up to quite a bit of money right there, and all I save is a lifting and setting down of the coil, a couple valve twists, and the flick of a switch.

edit; Oh, and I have other reasons for not putting an element in that temporary hot water tank. it's my brew kettle when I want to brew at a friend's house. I just pull it off the HERMS rig and take it and my propane burner with me.
 
Hmmmmm... that's a little strange, but it sounds like they fed 240V into the panel and through the double-pole breaker, but then forked the hots off to make 120V circuits.

Can you snap a pic of this breaker?

Yes I can definitely take a picture - unfortunately, I can't right now, but can later tonight (not in my house).

the 15 amp breaker looks like this (two slots with a fixed breaker bar - they don't move independently).
http://www.amazon.com/dp/B000BQSCCG/?tag=skimlinks_replacement-20

I looked all over for 240 plug in the garage too, but couldn't find one. The only significant power drawing items are garage door openers, but they are on the 20 amp circuit (I think).

This is why I thought it was so weird. Why set up a double pole 15 amp breaker with no 240 plug? I am sure there is a reason, i just can't think of it.
 
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the 15 amp breaker looks like this (two slots with a fixed breaker bar - they don't move independently).
http://www.amazon.com/dp/B000BQSCCG/?tag=skimlinks_replacement-20

I looked all over for 240 plug in the garage too, but couldn't find one. The only significant power drawing items are garage door openers, but they are on the 20 amp circuit (I think).

This is why I thought it was so weird. Why set up a double pole 15 amp breaker with no 240 plug? I am sure there is a reason, i just can't think of it.

And, unlike the one in the pic, yours has GFI built into it?

It is strange. Does the chart on the subpanel have written down what it is connected to?

Hmmmmm.... is your water heater electric and located in the garage? I am wondering if that breaker is for it.
 
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You wouldn't happen to have a picture of this set up would you? I can't visualize how the element interacts with the mash water/wort. Is the element under a false bottom or something?

Sorry for the crappy quality of the cell phone pins, but here is a shot of my electric kettle (left) and mash tun (right).

herms11.jpg


It's too fuzzy to see the details, but the short description is that wort comes out of the MLT and into the pump (the pump is the black thing under the table, hard to see in the pic). Wort comes up out of the top of the pump and into one end of the copper coil that is sitting in the electric kettle.

Here's the inside of the electric kettle:

herms21.jpg


There's no water in here right now, but when mashing, there will be enough water to cover the loops of the coil. The heater element is the long gray hing under the coil.

Wort flows through the coil and comes back out, flowing past the temp probe that I mounted inside of a chamber made of some copper fittings that I sweated together.

herms_probe_mount.jpg


The wort them flows back to the MLT.

If the wort coming out of the coil is too cold, then the PID turns on the heater element, which heats the water, which heats the copper, which heats the wort flowing through it.
 
And, unlike the one in the pic, yours has GFI built into it?

It is strange. Does the chart on the subpanel have written down what it is connected to?

Hmmmmm.... is your water heater electric and located in the garage? I am wondering if that breaker is for it.

My garage is detached, so all the house stuff (water heater etc, are located in the house and on the main 200 service panel). As for the GFI, I believe I misspoke. The 15amp and the 20 are hooked into GFI circuits. I thought that was the same thing, but it looks like you are talking about built in GFI in the panel - I will get a picture of it and maybe that will clear things up (sorry for the lack of know how on this one/inability to explain myself clearly - ugh)


When you operate, do you have a lid on? Looks like a pretty cool set up!
 
As for the GFI, I believe I mispoke. The 15amp and the 20 are hooked into GFI circuits. I thought that was the same thing - I will get a picture of it and maybe that will clear things up (sorry for the lack of know how on this one.)

No worries.

What I think is going on here is that they used that 2-pole breaker for no good reason other than to get two circuit breakers into one slot in the subpanel. From there, they fed power as 120v circuits to GFI receptacles in your garage. No single item in the garage is receiving both poles that come out of that breaker and utilizing 240v.

Strange.

Ah... crap. Earlier you said that the garage is fed by a 20A breaker in the main panel. Is that 20A breaker in the main panel a 2-pole breaker or just a single pole breaker?

If it's single pole, then your garage only has 120V available, and 20A, which puts you in a pickle.

As for GFI:

GFI is available built into receptacles for 120V, but you won't find 240V GFI receptacles. 240v gfi has to be built directly into the breaker (there will be a little "test" botton on the breaker) or you have to buy it built into a power cord that plugs into the wall. You'll have to spend some money there if you are concerned with safety. (I personally would never brew electrically with out GFI protection.)
 
No worries.
Ah... crap. Earlier you said that the garage is fed by a 20A breaker in the main panel. Is that 20A breaker in the main panel a 2-pole breaker or just a single pole breaker?

The breaker in the main panel is 20 amp, it is a double fat breaker, but only one lever on it. Not sure what that means. So a breaker that is twice as thick - takes up two slots, but only has one lever.

So it looks like... I might be screwed because I can't run two elements at 1500W/120V unless I do it off a 12/3 extension cord from a circuit in the house.

regarding the GFI - again - looks like I can't do that unless I go for one line from the garage and a second 12/3 extension cord on a GFI from another 15amp circuit.

I am starting to think the only way around this is to run a dedicated circuit for 240 out to a box (from the main service panel), and plug into that when brewing. It would require a new larger breaker in the main service panel (I have three open slots), probably 50-75 feet of 6 or 8 gauge wire and the hardware for an outdoor box and plugs. Or I could just retrench it and stop being lazy.

I kinda wanted the 240 plug in the garage so I can heat it with electric when we use our climbing gym....

I think one word describes this best... sh!tballs...
 
That might be a blessing in disguise. You can then use a 5500 watt element for a much quicker brew day. Think of the time you'll save!

I went over all of this when planning my setup, and ultimately decided I wanted a dedicated 50amp 240 breaker for my brewing. I always have issues with other brew day stuff, I don't need electricity to be another problem.
 
The breaker in the main panel is 20 amp, it is a double fat breaker, but only one lever on it. Not sure what that means. So a breaker that is twice as thick - takes up two slots, but only has one lever.
Well, that's good news. I have NEVER seen a double-wide breaker that wasn't handling 240V.


So it looks like... I might be screwed because I can't run two elements at 1500W/120V unless I do it off a 12/3 extension cord from a circuit in the house.
Not so fast. Now that I have a description of the breaker in the main, I think you do have 240V coming to the garage and might be OK here.


regarding the GFI - again - looks like I can't do that unless I go for one line from the garage and a second 12/3 extension cord on a GFI from another 15amp circuit.

One option here would be to have the 20A breaker in the main panel swapped out for a 20A GFI breaker. That would protect the whole garage with GFI. You would have redundant GFI on the 120v receptacles, but that doesn't matter.

I am starting to think the only way around this is to run a dedicated circuit for 240 out to a box, and plug into that when brewing. It would require a new larger breaker, probably 50-75 feet of 6 or 8 gauge wire and the hardware for an outdoor box and plugs.

I kinda wanted the 240 plug in the garage so I can heat it with electric when we use our climbing gym....

I think one word describes this best... sh!tballs...

Don't jump off the cliff yet. Things might not be that bad. You just need to sort out WTF is going on with that 15A breaker in your garage panel.

If it's really sending through the two separate hots and just using them to make 120v circuits, you are still in business.

You could do several things here:

(1) tap new wires off the 2-pole breaker and install a proper 240V outlet. You still need to resolve the GFI issue somehow, which could be via replacing the 20A breaker in the main panel with a 20A GFI breaker and protecting the entire garage.
(2) just utilize the existing 120V GFI receptacles, but you WILL need to use two separate 120V heating elements instead of a single 240V element in this situation.
 
OK. So there may still be hope. Why can't I be at home right now!!!

I will get a couple of pictures of the breakers and post up tonight.

I would love a 240 plug in there. But the question is how will I power other things in there (lights, etc) that run off that circuit.

First things first - gotta grab the pictures of the panels in the house and garage.
 
OK check these out. Main breaker and sub panel in the garage. Slot 7 is garage breaker. I emailed this over to you as well (so you can see the bigger files).

IMG_4292.jpg


IMG_4293.jpg


IMG_4294.jpg


IMG_4295.jpg
 
ah! the garage panel is just a tiny thing. that's why they used the slim line breaker. And, it's not really a double-pole breaker. It is two independent breakers packaged into one module. (They each have their own reset lever and those levers are not bonded together.)

and the breaker that feeds the garage in the main panel is 2-pole, sending 240V out to the garage.

Can you determine which breaker in the garage controls what?

Three breakers in total, and I would suspect that one of them is the receptacles, one of them is the lights, and one of them is the garage door opener.

Can you flip them off, one at a time and figure it out?
 
Yes just checked

from left to right:
20 = garage door openers
15 = wall sockets (I think)
15 = inner and outer lights
 
Yes just checked

from left to right:
20 = garage door openers
15 = wall sockets (I think)
15 = inner and outer lights

Well.... at least you know what's what now.

Without doing any wiring work, you could hijack two of the three circuits in your garage and use two 120v heating elements. My guess is that the 20 breaker for the garage door opener uses one of the 120v hot lines from the 240v/20A feed into the garage and the two 15A breakers are sharing the other 120v hot line from the 240v feed.

You could probably have an outlet installed on the wall that uses the 20A breaker's output rather than go up to the ceiling and plug in there.

But... this solution means using two elements and cutting two holes, one hole and one heatstick, or two heatsticks.

You could be a little more heavy-handed with the re-wiring work and get yourself a proper 240v outlet installed.

Bummer that things are like this, but I doubt the person that had the garage wired had any intention of running an current thirsty brewing machine out there. :D
 
talk to your brother-in-law about the situation.

I am not an electrician, so I am not familiar with building code, but maybe it's possible to tap off the feed coming into the garage and put in a 20A/240V receptacle in addition to powering the garage panel.

If that's allowed, then you would still want to swap the 20A breaker in the main panel with a GFI breaker, but you would then have a 20A/240v GFI receptacle in the garage to use.

You would be sharing the available current with everything else in the garage, but 3000W or 3500W (if that's available in a water eater element) could be used and still leave enough juice to run your lights and a few things plugged into the wall in the garage.

If you can't tap a 240v receptacle off the main feed to the garage, this is going to require two elements running at 120v.
 
Thanks for the help, the wife was getting pissed that I was on the computer haha. Anyway, I am digging into the prospect of running that new line, how much material and effort it would cost. My brother in law is getting back to me on how to set it up with a dual pole 50amp breaker on the main, a new subpanel in the garage and a 30 amp GFI breaker and the 20 amp breaker in a new subpanel. So basically, it won't happen tomorrow, but at least he can't help me set up the back end of it.

My brother in law did say he was going to try to find me some stuff lying around from friends on the cheap. I told him whatever it is just buy it, and I will get him back ha!

as with everything, it will take a little time and cash!
 
Bummer that things are like this, but I doubt the person that had the garage wired had any intention of running an current thirsty brewing machine out there. :D

I am pretty sure the cat before me had no idea all the cool **** I was gonna do in this house :mug:

Will post back and let you know the progress - really appreciate your time on this, helping a brotha out.
 
you already have a line that's capable of 40A right? Why not just replace the breaker in the main panel, then replace the garage subpanel with a bigger panel. Laying a whole new line and putting in yet another panel in your garage seems like an unnecessary expense, but maybe I'm missing a piece of the puzzle here.
 
you already have a line that's capable of 40A right? Why not just replace the breaker in the main panel, then replace the garage subpanel with a bigger panel. Laying a whole new line and putting in yet another panel in your garage seems like an unnecessary expense, but maybe I'm missing a piece of the puzzle here.
He said the wire buried under the ground from his main panel to his garage was 10 AWG, so it could handle 30A.

He could beef up the breaker in the main panel if this is true and get more juice to the garage, but he would need a different panel out there since he's maxed out on breakers in the little one he has now.
 
Okay, typo on the 40A - but 30A is good. So basically you just need to replace the panel with a 100A subpanel, put the new 240V breaker in there and done. Course, if you want to spend the money on laying new wire - don't do what the last guy did - go big, 6 gauge. :)
 
fyi: your main panel is from the manufacturer Square D. You have to buy a breaker that matches the panel. Square D makes two kinds. Snap-on and Bolt-on.

I took a look at ebay and found two 30A 2-pole GFCI breaker for about $35 (one of each type). That's a pretty good deal. They are over $100 if you walk into a store and buy one off the shelf.

1
http://cgi.ebay.com/Square-D-Single-Pole-30A-GFI-GFCI-Breaker-/310298072257?pt=BI_Circuit_Breakers_Transformers&hash=item483f34d4c1

1
http://compare.ebay.com/like/270332223361?ltyp=AllFixedPriceItemTypes&var=sbar&rvr_id=214576778932&crlp=1_263602_304662&UA=WXF%3F&GUID=b9efa43212d0a0aa17965196fef28289&itemid=270332223361&ff4=263602_304662

edit: yours *appears* to be the snap-on kind (the first link)
 
So you are saying that, with the 10gauge line I have I could get a dual pole 30amp breaker for the main panel. From that, keep the 10g wire in and replace only the subpanel with a 100Amp subpanel. In that subpanel I would keep my current circuits (20, 15, 15) breaker set up and add a 30 amp GFI breaker, so that 30 amp breaker on the main panel would be split into 4 circuits (20,15,15,30)? On the 30 amp GFI breaker I would wire up a 240 outlet?


don't do what the last guy did - go big, 6 gauge

Absolutely. If I am retrenching that line, it is going to go in PVC conduit style and will be 6 gauge. I hate fixing things twice, do it right once.
 
first one is a 120V single pole... not double pole

Whoops!

That brings up an interesting point. I mentioned earlier that I had never seen a double-wide breaker that was not dual-pole. And now I have.

So... it is possible that the 20A breaker in the main that feeds out to the garage is only a single pole breaker.

CidahMastah.... is the cable that is buried under the ground a 4 wire cable? That's critical here.

So you are saying that, with the 10gauge line I have I could get a dual pole 30amp breaker for the main panel.

I would check with an electrician to make sure that the ampacity rating of the 10AWG wire, when buried under the ground, is still 30A first. There are several things that factor into the max amp load of a wire.

- metal type
- wire gauge
- insulation used on the wire
- wire length
- "form" (single wire, multi conductor cable, in open air vs inside of conduit)

SO, don't just assume that 10AWG wire can handle 30A in all situations. I'd love to offer you a specific answer, but I am an electrical engineer and not an electrician, and these kinds of things are not taught in school for an engineer. An electrician will be able to answer with more authority on those kinds of things.

From that, keep the 10g wire in and replace only the subpanel with a 100Amp subpanel. In that subpanel I would keep my current circuits (20, 15, 15) breaker set up and add a 30 amp GFI breaker, so that 30 amp breaker on the main panel would be split into 4 circuits (20,15,15,30)? On the 30 amp GFI breaker I would wire up a 240 outlet?

That's one option. The other would be to put the GFCI breaker in the main pabel instead of the subpanel. That would protect everything in the garage at the same time.

As I mentioned, GFCI breakers can get expensive and you'll have to shop around for a deal. So, it might be in your wallet's best interest to get your subpanel first and then decide (based on what kind of deal you can find on the GFCI breaker) whether you want to put the GFCI in the main panel or in the subpanel.
 
CidahMastah.... is the cable that is buried under the ground a 4 wire cable? That's critical here.


The cable is about 1 inch wide x 1/4'' (and rectangular). I took the panel face off to look at it, but now I can't recall if I saw only two lines running from that breaker or 4. Will have to look.



I would check with an electrician to make sure that the ampacity rating of the 10AWG wire, when buried under the ground, is still 30A first.

I have an email out to my bro in law. This morning about this.


SO, don't just assume that 10AWG wire can handle 30A in all situations.

so no faking it until we make it? ha


I'd love to offer you a specific answer, but I am an electrical engineer and not an electrician, and these kinds of things are not taught in school for an engineer. An electrician will be able to answer with more authority on those kinds of things.
I appreciate your honesty. Too many people are the "trust me dude" it will probably work type. Being an engineer, you are likely detail oriented which helps keep you alive when toying with electricity.


The other would be to put the GFCI breaker in the main pabel instead of the subpanel. That would protect everything in the garage at the same time.

Was thinking about this, and for convenience (unless cost prohibitive) I would defnintely want the GFCI breaker in the subpanel. If I trip the sub panel, I would have to exit the garage, go in the house, down to basement and flip at the main panel. Not the end of the world, but a pain.



So, it might be in your wallet's best interest to get your subpanel first and then decide (based on what kind of deal you can find on the GFCI breaker) whether you want to put the GFCI in the main panel or in the subpanel.

I think this is the route I am going to follow. Get a subpanel and start collecting what I need as I go. The tricky part for me is, finding a deal on ebay is a little tough, because I don't have 100% confidence that what I am buying is the "right" part. I might have to lean on my brother in law and have him help me hunt a bit.
 
The cable is about 1 inch wide x 1/4'' (and rectangular). I took the panel face off to look at it, but now I can't recall if I saw only two lines running from that breaker or 4. Will have to look.

The breaker will only have 1 or 2 wires coming out of it. The underground cable will pick up neutral and ground from somewhere else in the main panel, and will only be getting it's hot line(s) from the breaker.

If there are two lines coming out of the breaker, then it's double-pole. If there is one wire, then it's single pole.


Was thinking about this, and for convenience (unless cost prohibitive) I would defnintely want the GFCI breaker in the subpanel. If I trip the sub panel, I would have to exit the garage, go in the house, down to basement and flip at the main panel. Not the end of the world, but a pain.

Well... yeah, the GFCI breaker will be closer if you put it in the garage subpanel, but you are overlooking a critical point here. If that GFCI trips, then SOMETHING IS WRONG. It's not like you'll want to just flip it back on ang go about your business brewing. You'll have more to worry about and fix than just the walk to the house to reset the breaker. :D
 
He was suggesting to go the route of 8 guage wire (three conductor all copper) and putting in a dual pole 50 amp breaker on the main panel. From there, add a 30 amp GFI to a (new) subpanel and keep the 20 amp for the garage door opener and possibly combine the lighting and outlets on one 15 amp (he would test the amp draw of the lights to see if this would be enough).

That would be the beefing it up way - the roll of 125 foot wire he recc was $207 (cheapest he could findonline). He thought, use what I need, and sell the rest on ebay. But still - that is a good chunk of change and I haven't even bought the new subpanel, 30amp GFI breaker, 50 amp dual pole breaker, etc. Looks like I will be more in the $400 range to get the material to implement an electric boil (wiring and breaker upgrades + cost of heating element, drill bit to cut a hole in the pot, PID, etc.)
 
If there are two lines coming out of the breaker, then it's double-pole. If there is one wire, then it's single pole.

Ok there were definitely two lines, a red and a black coming from the breaker on the main panel, so 240 is going out, spit between the 20 amp cicuit and the 15's.

If that GFCI trips, then SOMETHING IS WRONG.

Ha I hear you. I was more speaking to the scenario where I turn on too much stuff at once, say wife hits the garage door opener while I am brewing, versus a trip based on my shoddy heating element install ha!

That would of course be if I went minimalist and only upgraded the main panel breaker to 30 amp
 
He was suggesting to go the route of 8 guage wire (three conductor all copper) and putting in a dual pole 50 amp breaker on the main panel. From there, add a 30 amp GFI to a (new) subpanel and keep the 20 amp for the garage door opener and possibly combine the lighting and outlets on one 15 amp (he would test the amp draw of the lights to see if this would be enough).

That would be the beefing it up way - the role of 125 foot wire he recc was $207 (cheapest he could findonline). He thought, use what I need, and sell the rest on ebay. But still - that is a good chunk of change and I haven't even bought the new subpanel, 30amp GFI breaker, 50 amp dual pole breaker, etc. Looks like I will be more in the $400 range to get the material to implement an electric boil (wiring and breaker upgrades + cost of heating element, drill bit to cut a hole in the pot, PID, etc.)

With that much electrical work needing to be done before you even have a place to plug a brewery in, you are going to be way up there in total costs if you want to use 240v and a single element.

Using 120V and two elements is still a possibility for you with out having to have any other work done, so keep that in mind.
 
Ha I hear you. I was more speaking to the scenario where I turn on too much stuff at once, say wife hits the garage door opener while I am brewing, versus a trip based on my shoddy heating element install ha!

Well, we were talking about where to put the GFCI breaker. Drawing too much current in the garage has nothing to do with where the GFCI is located.

If you have a large GFCI breaker in the house and a small standard breaker in the garage, the garage breaker will trip if you draw too much current through it. The large breaker in the house will trip if there is a ground fault.

If you have a large standard breaker in the house and a small GFCI breaker in the garage, then the garage breaker will trip if you draw too much current through it. The garage breaker will also trip if there is a ground fault.

But.. thinking about it more... it would suck to be brewing at night, have a ground fault and then suddenly find yourself in the dark because the feed from the main panel shut down. :D
 
Ah that is true, because now we know that I have at least two circuits to draw from, therefore I could go the route of two heating elements.

Although, I do like the idea of only tossing in a dual pole 30 amp breaker on the main, and putting a 30 amp GFI breaker on the sub (new panel) without having to replace that line, if that is within spec of the wiring I have. I could go one element, with moderate cost. And I wouldn't even consider heat sticks.... just a perm. install in the pot.
 
But.. thinking about it more... it would suck to be brewing at night, have a ground fault and then suddenly find yourself in the dark because the feed from the main panel shut down. :D

And to say I don't brew at night is a total lie haha. Sometimes if I get the green linght to brew during the week,... I am out there most of the night.
 
Ah that is true, because now we know that I have at least two circuits to draw from, therefore I could go the route of two heating elements.

Although, I do like the idea of only tossing in a 30 amp breaker on the main, and putting a 30 amp GFI breaker on the sub (new panel) without having to replace that line, if that is within spec of the wiring I have. I could go one element, with moderate cost. And I wouldn't even consider heat sticks.... just a perm. install in the pot.

Yup.

With no electrical work, you can go 2x elements on 120v.
With some electrical work, you can go 1x element on 240v.
With more invasive electrical work, you can do whatever the hell you want.

I will say this....

If you decide to go the route of major electrical work and replace that cable that feeds the garage, don't limit yourself. Fix this once and give yourself room to grow. Run 50+ amps to the garage so that you don't ever have to deal with it again, and allow the brewery to use 50A if necessary.

You can put small breakers inside your brewery control panel to drop the amps down for pretty cheap (brewery control panel basically includes its own built-in subpanel).

That's what I did with mine. I had a 50A GFCI breaker and a 50A receptacle installed in the garage. Inside my control panel, I drop down to 25A with some inexpensive panel-mount circuit breakers.

If I ever want to upgrade and use more power, the 50A is already available from the wall, and I just need to make changes within the brewery control panel.
 
There is part of me that really wants to go big (the part of me that usually always wins ha). I have good reason to potentially install 2x240 outlets if I go with electric to heat the place for the climbing gym. So it is sort of a dual usage of the upgrade. I am not sure one heater unit will do the job for me, so upgrading would be, expensive, but ideal. However keeping the cost low, means more money for brewer equipment upgrades.

There is always a chance I can get my buddy to eat up some of the costs, since he will always be brewing at my house, on my electric dime. ha
 
There is always a chance I can get my buddy to eat up some of the costs, since he will always be brewing at my house, on my electric dime. ha

Just don't let him know how cheap it is.

I pay about $0.10 per kilowatt-hour for electricity. To brew 5 gallons, it costs me less than $1.25 now.

Previously, I was going through $12 worth of propane every two weeks, and now I go through $2.50 worth of electricity instead.

I'm saving close to $250 per year in brewery "fuel" expenses with the electric system. The system will have paid for itself in just a couple of years.
 
Just don't let him know how cheap it is.

I pay about $0.10 per kilowatt-hour for electricity. To brew 5 gallons, it costs me less than $1.25 now.

Previously, I was going through $12 worth of propane every two weeks, and now I go through $2.50 worth of electricity instead.

I'm saving close to $250 per year in brewery "fuel" expenses with the electric system. The system will have paid for itself in just a couple of years.

See right there is a "business case" for moving to electric even if I go big. I am going through propane at about the rate you are talking about. Except for me the propane is like 16-18 to fill, but I am pretty sure my electric is more per kw/hour (.16 cents I think or more ).
 
for me the propane is like 16-18 to fill
Yeah, that's what I was paying for a tank re-fill, and I was getting three batches of brew and a little BBQ-ing out of each tank.

but I am pretty sure my electric is more per kw/hour (.16 cents I think or more ).

That would bump my $1.25 to $1.85. still super cheap.
 
The more I consider this the more I think I am going to work towards the bigger set up (even if I have to "one piece at a time" it -johnny cash style).

50amp dual pole on the main
6 gauge wire through conduit
100 amp sub panel

Start with a dual pole 30amp GFI breaker -since I am not quite ready for a brewers control panel - (wire up the receptacles, garage door opener as my bro in law sees fit on additional breakers).

If I ever want to upgrade to a brewer panel and get a wicked set up like some of the gents on here, I can have the ability to grow.

Might be on propane for a couple more months before I get the project rolling.
 
Hey walker, for your setup - you have a 50amp GFI on your subpanel, and how is your brewery control panel set up from there?
 
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