Wanting to "improve" the recipe

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Newsman

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I recently brewed 5+ gallons of Vanilla Stout. It was pretty good, but I'd like it a little thicker and a bit more alcoholic. Any suggestions? I'm thinking of boosting the amount of malt extract (either liquid or dry) and maybe steeping the "specialty" grains a bit more or adding more grains (say oatmeal) to help add body.

Suggestions???
 
maybe add some wheat extract? it'll contribute to the mouthfeel and add some more fermentables
 
Go easy on the oatmeal. Too much can make an oily greasy slick in the beer. I think in designing great beers it says oatmeal should be no more than 6% of the total grist. Not sure how that translates into extract brewing, But going too small never hurt a beer,going too big however...
 
More fermentables will give you more alcohol... Some wheat extract (which is normally around 50/50 wheat and barley mixture) will give more mouthfeel as will some oatmeal, but again take it easy on the oatmeal (i.e. 1/2 pound or less). You will probably want to increase the amount of hops you use as well to keep things balanced.
 
Thanks, guys. I'll give your suggestion a shot. I don't like a lot of hop flavor / bitterness, so I might consider doubling the second hops, but I'm not sure I want all the bitterness of an extra package of whatever it was we used instead of cluster (local Homebrew store didn't have that, so they sold me what was supposed to be equivalent) Might consider a second package of Kent Goldings, though. Any other suggestions?
 
I would stick to just increasing your bittering hops. If you don't have software like beersmith, use hopville.coms beercalculus to calculate what you do. I would guess you wouldn't need more than .25 to .5 oz extra to keep things balanced unless of course you really add a bunch more fermentables.
 
If you're going to use oatmeal or flaked barley, consider doing a mini-mash. It's not really any harder than steeping grains and will yield a better beer since you'll be converting all that starch into sugar.
 
How about posting the current recipe with the type yeast pitched? That'll give us a better idea about where you're starting from.
 
Recipe Type: Extract
Yeast: White Labs Irish Ale
Batch Size (Gallons): 5
Original Gravity: 1.054
Final Gravity: 1.015
IBU: 19.0
Boiling Time (Minutes): 70
Color: 46.4 SRM
Primary Fermentation (# of Days & Temp): 14 days at 70
Secondary Fermentation (# of Days & Temp): 7 days at 70
Tasting Notes: Malty with a great vanilla after taste.

6 lb. Dark Liquid Malt Extract
1 lb. Dark Dry Malt Extract
.75 lb. Black Patent Malt
.25 lb. Roasted Barley
1 oz Cluster (7.00%) at 60 minutes
1 oz East Kent Goldings (4.00) at 20 minutes
1 tsp Irish moss at 15 minutes
2.5 Tablespoons of Vanilla Extract (add to secondary)
1 White Labs Irish Ale Yeast

Steeped grains at 150F for 35 minutes in oven

Boil for 70 minutes

After 14 days move to secondary and rack on top of 2.5 tbsp of vanilla.
(I know I should have soaked beans in bourbon, but thought i would try this, so far so good)

Note: the original recipe called for priming with corn sugar. I'm going to be kegging, so I don't need that. I used three Bourbon vanilla beans soaked for about 3 days in the cheapest bourbon I could find, and then tossed the beans, whiskey and all, in the secondary. It was only about a half-pint of whiskey, so I don't think it affected the alcohol much. :D
 
Steeped grains at 150F for 35 minutes in oven

Would you mind elaborating a bit more on this? This is the first time I have heard of steeping in the oven. Ive read half of the Joy of Home Brewing and How to brew by John Palmer and hundreds of posts several youtube videos etc, and havent heard this until now! Only read the first halves of these books as I am new and figured I should master the basics before moving on the more advanced techniques, but temperature control seems to be key at multiple points throughout the process so if you could explain this a bit more i would greatly appreciate it.
 
That's what the original recipe said to do. I didn't do that. I kept it on the stove and kept it *approximately* 150 degrees.
I think the idea is that if you have your oven set to 200 or so, it'll keep the wort from cooling down too much.
 
Here's what I came up with using Hopville's Beer Calculus:
9# Dark Liquid Extract
3# Flaked Barley
3# Caramel Wheat Malt
3# Dark Dry Malt Extract
1# Black Patent Malt
8oz Roasted Barley

2 Oz Galena hops (at 60 minutes)
3 Oz East Kent Goldings at 30 Minutes

Irish Ale Yeast (Have to make a GOOD starter, maybe even buy double-batch of yeast and make a second starter to add about a week in)

1 tsp Irish Moss (add to boil at 15 minutes)

3 Bourbon soaked vanilla beans for 14 days in the secondary (maybe longer and/or more -- I want a good, strong vanilla flavor!)
3 Oz oak chips disinfected in bourbon added to the secondary for 14 days.

Any thoughts / suggestions? According to Beer Calculus it should be about 10.9% ABV.
 
Not sure the vanilla and oak are going to complement each other, but other than that it looks pretty good. You might also consider adding some champagne yeast, I'm not sure how "big" Irish Ale yeast will go.
 
Not sure the vanilla and oak are going to complement each other, but other than that it looks pretty good. You might also consider adding some champagne yeast, I'm not sure how "big" Irish Ale yeast will go.

Ahh... Ok. Thanks. I'll check with the local homebrew store. They might have a suggestion about the yeast. :mug:
 
Thanks! the recipe sounds delicious by the way, I may have to try it! :D

This was my first beer. And my first PUBLIC beer as well. :D There's a charity event in Chattanooga, TN called the Southern Brewer's Fest. The local home-brew club participates every year and we're also the first booth out of beer every year. I donated my first 5 gallons of beer, un-tasted, un-tested and it went over pretty good. I got a few members of the public to taste it and, even on a hot summer day they liked it. I can only imagine how it'll do when the weather is not so nice! :D
 
Newsman said:
This was my first beer. And my first PUBLIC beer as well. :D There's a charity event in Chattanooga, TN called the Southern Brewer's Fest. The local home-brew club participates every year and we're also the first booth out of beer every year. I donated my first 5 gallons of beer, un-tasted, un-tested and it went over pretty good. I got a few members of the public to taste it and, even on a hot summer day they liked it. I can only imagine how it'll do when the weather is not so nice! :D

Nice job. You could also look at modifying the recipe to only use light extracts and use specialty grains for your coloring and flavor. You really don't know what you're getting with dark extracts. Look at some all grain stout recipes and that will give you an idea on the grain bill ratios.

Keep brewing!
 
It's not something that I would like to brew or drink, but that doesn't mean it's not what you want.
As helibrewer said, using only light extracts, and adding steeping grains for the color/flavor gives you much more control over the outcome.
Now for the things that I really don't like about the recipe.
You are adding 3# flaked barley which contains a large amount of starch, but you have nothing in the recipe that will convert that starch into fermentables. If you are going to add 3# flaked barley, you really need to add at least 3# base malt and do a mini mash (as mentioned in post 7) to convert the starches.
You say in post 5 that you don't like a lot of hop flavor or bitterness, but you're going to use 2 oz Galena at 60 minutes, and 3 oz EKG at 30 minutes. :confused:
You are using 3# cara-wheat. IMO that is excessive, and makes me feel sick just to think about it. Admittedly, others like more crystal malts than I do, but I would suggest that you use no more than 1.5# (which would still be much more than I could tolerate).

-a.
 
I would agree, you have to mash the flaked barley. I'd ditch the dry extract and add four pounds of 2-row, then mash all of the grain for 60 minutes at 156F.

Personally, I think you are making too many changes in one jump. I'd opt for the original recipe, plus a pound of 2-row and a pound of caramel wheat with a mini-mash.
 
Well, I ditched the flaked barley as I don't have the equipment to do a mash. I'm thinking of ditching the dry malt extract completely as it's going to be VERY sweet, and I'm afraid it might be overly sweet. The local Homebrew store didn't have Galena and recommended 1 Oz of German Magnum. What I don't like is a really bitter beer. I like a lot of flavor. The Homebrew store expert also recommended 1# of lactose, so I'm going to try that. According to Hopville's on-line calculator, the IBU will be almost 43, and the ABV will be 10.7% if I leave off the dry malt extract and use 1 Oz of Magnum hops and 2 Oz of EKG.

So the modified recipe as it stands now is:
10# 5 Oz Dark Liquid Malt (comes in 3.3# cans)
3# 5 Oz Wheat Malt
1# Lactose
1# Black Patent Malt
8 Oz roasted barley
1 tsp Irish Moss @15 minutes

1 Oz German Magnum Hops @ 60 minutes
1 Oz EKG @30 Minutes
1 Oz EKG @15 Minutes
1 tsp Yeast Nutrient @15 minutes

Yeast is American Ale (Wyeast 1056)

3 Bourbon-soaked Vanilla beans in Secondary

Thinking about getting a second pack of yeast to re-pitch at 1 week in primary. Any comments??? I'm afraid with this pushing 11% ABV, even with nutrient, it might stall after it has been going for awhile, which is why I was considering buying a second smack-pack.
 
You will definitely want to pitch more than one smack pack unless you are making a starter. If you arent making a starter you will need like 3 smack packs and you should pitch all your yeast at once.
 
OK. Maybe I will make a starter then. All's I know is that the home brew store guy (was right about making the original Vanilla Stout recipe) said this should be fine and I don't need to make a starter, but I guess it won't hurt to make a starter. I'll take it out of the fridge then and smack it and let it go, then make a starter. The home brew store guy seemed to think one smack pack should be enough (don't know if they come in different sizes, but this is pretty big... Anyway, I'll go ahead and make a starter. Thanks for the heads-up
 
Newsman said:
The home brew store guy seemed to think one smack pack should be enough...

Hang around here long enough, and do you own reading [IMO J Palmer's 3rd ed of How to Brew in paper, not online antique version] and you will pretty quickly learn that the LHBS employees often give a lot of inaccurate/ bad advice. Some employees are good or great of course, but newbs can't really tell (in the beginning).
To figure the right amount of yeast, go to mrmalty.com

One vial or smax pack of liquid yeast is never enough for 5 gallons of beer that is over 1.030 OG. it will still ferment but slowly. You would probably be on here with a thread: HELP my airlock isnt moving after 2 days!

Edit: Or just stick to dry yeast- WY 1056 equivalent is Safale US 05. no starter needed (just rehydrate in warm water for 30 min).
 
Yeah. I figure it won't hurt anything to make a starter, so I am. :D He seems pretty knowledgeable, although I think he may be a bit mistaken about how much hops I need. Even making it a full 2 oz of EKG hops barely makes a dent in the malty sweetness. I'm looking for a balance between the bitterness of an IPA and the super-sweet maltiness that I'm going to have from this. According to the brew calculator on Hopville this is gong to be VERY malty-sweet, so I may go back tomorrow and get another ounce of the German Magnum hops. That should help balance the sweetness a bit more.

[edit]
OK, I just went back to Hopville and added another ounce of the German Magnum hops at 15 minutes and it only bumps the IBUs up to 56.5 and on the "sliding scale" it takes it to about 2/3 of the way to malty-sweet from about 90%. Before adding the extra ounce of German Magnum, the IBUs are 42.7. What do y'all think?
 
Magnum is more for bittering, I would put those at the beginning of the boil. You may not need the whole ounce there.
 
Thanks. I went back to Hopville again and tried 1.5 ounces of Magnum at 60 minutes. Taht gave me about the same IBUs as putting in another ounce at 30 minutes. Still, what do y'all think about a stout at 56.6 IBUs? Is that *too* stout? Keep in mind I'm going to be adding vanilla to it, which should add a lot of flavor.
 
That is pretty high ibu for the style. The 30 min addition is more for flavor than bittering and hop flavor is not desirable for the style. Try .75 or 1 oz at 60 and that will probably be better. Hopville's scale for balance isn't perfect imo, but gives a good baseline.
 
OK. Sounds like a plan then. Next question... Will a 1 Liter starter made from a smack-pack be enough yeast or should I bump it up to 2 liters or 1 liter plus another smack-pack? Also, how long would you leave this in the secondary before you keg it? My local club is saying 5-6 months. I was hoping to drink it in less than 2 months from start of fermentation, is that unreasonable for something this big?
 
I would highly suggest a 2 stage starter. Begin with a 1 liter starter that goes 24-48 hours then "step up" to 2 liters. That's a large beer and you definitely want to make sure you pitch enough strong, healthy yeast. 2 months will not be enough time for this beer to be it's best. I personally wouldn't leave in secondary for 6 months. I would age 1-2 months in secondary then age in bottles 2-3 more. You could certainly age in the keg as well.
 
Ok. Sounds like a plan. I guess I'll make the wort tomorrow, but cool it overnight in my freezer (bought for the specific purpose of brewing at a steady temperature) and then pitch everything Tuesday evening and see how it goes! I'm still debating about buying another smack pack on top of a 2-stage starter, just to make sure I have enough yeast. Can you "over-pitch"???
 
Ok. Sounds like a plan. I guess I'll make the wort tomorrow, but cool it overnight in my freezer (bought for the specific purpose of brewing at a steady temperature) and then pitch everything Tuesday evening and see how it goes! I'm still debating about buying another smack pack on top of a 2-stage starter, just to make sure I have enough yeast. Can you "over-pitch"???

Yes you can, but it's actually harder than you would think. The yeast will stop when they have consumed all of a limiting nutrient (Nitrogen, O2, sugar, etc.). If you are going to pitch that much yeast I would recommend using O2 in the wort and using FermAid-K nutrient.
 
No sweat. I'd already planned on both of those. 'Course I'm not using "FermAid-K" I'm using Wyeast yeast nutrient. I thought I'd put a couple teaspoons in the wort. Will that be enough?
 
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