Johnson Controls A419 Terminology (What's it mean?)

So, I've been reading through my Johnson Controls A419 manual and I want to make sure I'm understanding my terms. Would some of you more "tech minded" folks out there help me understand what some terms mean? Please use small words.

I've put what I think they mean, but I'm probably wrong. So, what do the following terms mean as it relates to the Johnson Controller when it is COOLING MODE:

• Setpoint (The temperature the controller will either turn the freezer's compressor on or off depending on whether I've got it set for cut-in or cut-out)
• Cut-in (Turn the freezer's compressor ON)
• Cut-out (Turn the freezer's compressor OFF)
• Cut-in at Setpoint (Once the freezer's internal temperature hits the setpoint temperature, the controller will turn the compressor ON and will keep it on until the freezer's internal temperature DROPS to the setpoint MINUS the differential)
• Cut-out at Setpoint (Once the freezer's internal temperature hits the setpoint temperature, the controller will turn the compressor OFF and will keep it OFF until the freezer's internal temperature RISES to the setpoint PLUS the differential)
• Differential (The difference between the temperature I want freezer's internal temperature to be and the temperature the controller will allow +/-)
• Anti-Short Cycle Delay (The time allowed in between control cycles)
• Output Relay Energized (The controller keeps the freezer ON if there's an issue)
• Output Relay De-Energized (The controller keeps the freezer OFF if there's an issue)
• Close the Normally Open Contacts (Close the circuit and thus turn the system ON)
• Open the Normally Open Contacts (Keep the circuit open and thus keep the system OFF)

Also, here are the settings I'm using currently:

Setpoint - 55 degrees
Differential - 3
Auto-Short Cycle Delay - 1
Temperature Offset - 0
Sensor Failure Operation - 0
Jumper Settings - Default
I don't know what my jumper settings actually are as the settings. I can't seem to find what the default setting is. But I didn't change them.

Are there any changes I should make? Also, like I said, I left the jumpers in the default position. Should I change them? I using this as a keezer not for fermentation.

What is this being used for? If it is for a fermenting fridge then you could make some small changes. According to the manual http://cgproducts.johnsoncontrols.com/MET_PDF/125188.PDF you are set for Cooling/Cut-in from the factory. The way you have it set it will turn on the compressor at 55 and keep it on until the temp drops to 52. If you are sensing air in the fridge you might want to increase your anti short cycle time. If you tape the sensor to the side of the fermentor (this is what I do) you can change your differential to 1. If you do this you need to insulate the sensor so that it is only sensing the temp of the fermenter. I used foam tape stuck to cardboard and strap it to the fermenter. One thing to note is that the controller can either be in cooling/cut-in, cooling/cut-out, heating/cut-in, or heating/cut-out. Hope this helps.

Thanks for the info P-Nut. Like it said in the previous post, I'm using it in a KEEZER (i.e. to keep kegs and beer for dispensing cool). I'm really looking for someone to confirm whether my definitions are correct and if I'm understanding the various features correctly. Also if someone would let me know if I need to make any changes to the settings (i.e. change from cooling cut-in to cooling cut-out). I'm thinking this is a question of whether I want the keezer a little cooler than my setpoint (cut-in) or a little warmer than my setpoint (cut-out).

What do ya'll use for your settings and do you have it set on cooling cut-in or cooling cut-out? Thanks

Table 4 on page 10 of the PDF explains it best (if you ask me).

I use a 419 in one ferm chamber. I use Cooling / Cut-Out

So my settings are say:
Setpoint 65*
Diff 2*

Cut-Out
Compressor turns on at setpoint + diff (67*)
Compressor turns off at setpoint (65*)

Cut-In
Compressor turns on at setpoint (65*)
Compressor turns off at setpoint - diff (63*)

hafmpty said:

Thanks for the info P-Nut. Like it said in the previous post, I'm using it in a KEEZER (i.e. to keep kegs and beer for dispensing cool). I'm really looking for someone to confirm whether my definitions are correct and if I'm understanding the various features correctly. Also if someone would let me know if I need to make any changes to the settings (i.e. change from cooling cut-in to cooling cut-out). I'm thinking this is a question of whether I want the keezer a little cooler than my setpoint (cut-in) or a little warmer than my setpoint (cut-out).

What do ya'll use for your settings and do you have it set on cooling cut-in or cooling cut-out? Thanks

Click to expand...

Be advised that some freezers have their own, built-in anti-short cycle circuit. On mine, the way this circuit works is that if someone attempts to short-cycle the unit (e.g. momentary power outage), the circuit will trip and the compressor WILL NOT come on again until the unit has been powered off and the short-cycle interval has expired.

So if possible, you should figure out what the short-cycle interval is for your freezer, and always set the ASD setting on your controller for a LONGER period. Otherwise, you could encounter a situation where your controller will trip the circuit in the freezer. Once that happens, your freezer won't come on again until you notice it and manually power cycle the freezer.

An ASD of 1 is probably way too low. If you don't have the manual for your freezer, I would go with 10 minutes or something like that.

I've got the Holiday 5.0cu ft. Chest Freezer from Lowes that some many people on here have. I read through the manual and didn't see anything about the "short-cycle interval" you mention gothcopter. I did read the following though under the troubleshooting section "Freezer Does Not Operate." It says, "Wait for 30-40 minutes to see whether freezer will start. Compressor cycle must be complete to operate." Don't know if that's what you're talking about. I'm going to adjust my ASD to 10 minutes. I don't think that'll be a problem as it'll take more than 10 minutes for the freezer to lose 2-3 degrees.

I'm still hoping to see the settings others have who use their freezer for cooling kegs. I'm most interested in whether there is consensus on using the cut-in or cut-out setting.

Thanks all for the input. It's helpful!

Hafmpty, did you ever develop a consensus on this? I'm about to try cooling/cut-out but would welcome other suggestions. This is for my keezer.

Cheers!

HitTheTwit said:

Hafmpty, did you ever develop a consensus on this? I'm about to try cooling/cut-out but would welcome other suggestions. This is for my keezer.

Cheers!

Click to expand...

I don't know if I would say "consensus" but I've currently got it set on cooling/cut-out with the temperature set to 42 and the differential set to 3 degrees. Works great for my keezer. Beer is cold and never rises above 45 degrees. I haven't had to mess with it once since I initially set it up. I decreased the temperature to allow for a little bit of warming as my beer sits in the cup. I figure it's easier to let a beer warm up once it's poured than it is to cool a beer down once it's poured.

Good luck.

Much appreciated. I went the same path.:rockin:

Very helpful thread!

I'm having a little trouble with my Keezer, i'm trying to use it as a Ferm chamber for now (trying to keep it at or as close to 65 as possible) and i have it set:

Setpoint - 65 degrees
Differential - 1
Auto-Short Cycle Delay - 10
Temperature Offset - 0
Sensor Failure Operation - 0
Jumper Settings - Default

I've tried setting the keezer to the coolest setting and the least cool so it eases into the temp a little slower, but i feel like i'm still getting a pretty wide range when i'm trying to maintain a fairly constant temp, do you guys have any input? (also if this isnt enough info to go from let me know and i'll try to provide more)

i set the pins to "cut in" cooling

Any advice would be appreciated! thanks guys!

-k

I spent way too much time trying to figure this out and have learned that it makes no ****ing difference which way you do this and I cannot think of varying situations where it would. The only ****ing thing this does is confuse people. You talk about Compressor Turning ON in one and the Compressor Turning OFF in the other.

Guess what? Its the same ****ing thing. Temp rises and cool air turns off and then on. Its a ****ing cycle after the temp is reached. The only thing this explains is what buttons you want to push on the control. Absolute bull****. You can do it either way and it will not make a difference. Just make sure you have it cut in at temp to differential for Cut in, which is default so why change it?
Think about this. For Cut-in lets say Goal temp is 38. diff is 2. Have setpoint set to 40. Cool air turns on at 40 down to 36 and guess what..it TURNS OFF!

Now for cut out it is same ****ing concept just different temps.

Goal is 38 with 2 point differential. Setpoint set to 36. Cool air turns OFF at 36, temp rises to 40, then cool air turns ON and sends it back down to 36.

I am crazy or is this the exact same thing either way. They talk about the compressor turning off and on, but after 2-3 cycles isnt it always going to turn off and on no matter what?

What am I missing?