Need help close to giving up :(

Well i've joined midwests beer of the month program and the past 3, plus 3 other beers i have brewed have been undrinkable. It has a strong odor and taste that i honestly have trouble describing believe me i have looked at the books and tried pinpointing the taste and smell there is just nothing I can identify with. Initially i saw that my wort chiller was leaking water into my beer when i was cooling it down and i figured that would be it. However the newest batch has gone the way of the past 4 My sanitation has been good, and even more so with this last batch, i cleaned everything and sanitized like crazy(i use star san) Can to much/bad Star San cause off flavors? YES i know Don't fear the foam! However i am reevaluating everything. Here are a few other problems i am addressing with my next batch:

Stop dipping the plastic containers in the hot wort to get all of the LME out (Plastic leaching into beer?)

Getting a new wine theif (Been using a turkey baster (I don't pour the wort in but it takes three or four dips to get enough to get a gravity reading)

Move the beer upstairs (i have been keeping my beer in my basement where it stays between 68-76 however the last beer i made was an anchor steam clone and i maintained 66 steady and it still tasted aweful)

New Sanitizer Any recomendations? And the star san sometimes had foam and i did re use sanitizer in between batches...however the last batch i made new sanitizer.

Fermenting in Glass: I have fermented other stuff in my plastic including wine and cider so i don't think it is my equipment i.e. scratches etc.

If anyone can help a brother out i would be eternally grateful i have a honey bee ale on deck and i want this one to be drinkable. I never thought i would say this but if i can't fix this issue i will just walk away from HB i can't afford to throw this money out HELP ME!!
Thanks in advance

How long are you leaving your beer in primary? How long are you letting it condition in bottles? Are you using municipal water? How much yeast are you pitching and at what temp?

Keep using the Star San, that's definitely not the problem. Like phenry said, what's your water like? Does it have chloramines and do you do anything to remove them?

phenry said:

How long are you leaving your beer in primary? How long are you letting it condition in bottles? Are you using municipal water? How much yeast are you pitching and at what temp?

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Answer these please. We can help, don't give up.

I think dipping the LME jug in there is fine.

A new thief would be a decent investment even if it has nothing to do with this.

StarSan is an excellent sanitizer, I wouldn't switch from that.

Have you had good batches before this recent string of disappointing ones, or have these issues been present throughout your whole brewing experience? If it just started happening, can you think of anything you've changed?

I'm also curious about the water - does it taste ok out of the tap?

It might help to walk us through a brew day, start to finish, and definitely answer what phenry's asking, as those are really valid questions.

Start simple - what do you use to clean your gear? You said you use starsan - which equipment are you starsan-ing, and how? Spray bottle? Big bucket that you dump everything into?

What kind of fermenter are you using? I get that it's plastic - is it a bucket, is it a better bottle? What are you using in your airlock or blow-off assembly? Starsan? Plain water? Vodka? Something else?

Of the things you listed changing, the turkey baster is about the only one that sounds viable to me - especially if you use that baster for any other purposes than just beer/wine/cider/etc. I'm guessing it's warmer in your upstairs than it is in your basement; the last thing you want is warmer temperatures if your basement is reliably holding in the mid-upper 60's. I've never heard of plastic from LME bottles leaching into anything - I do what you're describing pretty much every time I use LME, and haven't had a problem.

Another important thing to note is WHEN you start to pick up the off-flavor you're talking about. When you take your OG, can you pick up the off flavor in that sample? When you test for FG? On bottling day? If you're having trouble with infection (a possibility) this might help us figure out what stage of your process to focus on.

maybe another local HBTer or someone at your LHBS can give a taste and give you some feedback?

I don't secondary i just primary for three weeks, when i pitch the yeast i make sure the yeast and the wort are at the same temp or at least in 1 to 2 degree difference. My water is fine i think it tastes fine however around the time my beer was shooting crap i took some water softner magnets off of my water pipes, i didn't think of that until right now, Is there any way to test the water? But i had a good batch of beer with the same water in between two bad batches :S The turkey baster was just used for wine and beer making so i wan't concerned about the turkey baster. Since i've had problems i have been sticking with better bottles and I've always used sanitizer in my air locks

I'm guessing it is your water. Do yourself a favor and by some bottled water for the next batch. Water with chlorine / chloramine and produce some pretty aweful flavors in beer.

what do you use to clean your equipment? is your wort coming into contact with chlorine? i used c-brite for a bit and i feel it ruined two of my brews (very plastic band aid aroma and taste). for cleaning i highly recommend pbw. for sanitizing there is nothing better than starsan, imho.

like all of those who have responded before me, i feel your water source may be suspect.

i personally cannot stand plastic, but many use it with amazing results. i love my glass carboys. when my contaminations happened, it took forever to get the awful smell out of my plastic bottling bucket.

i understand the frustration. i am dealing with a similar feeling because i continue to have all my brews finish at 1.020. i finally got one down to 1.016...and i credit that to the yeast i used: harvested from 3 bottles of bell's 2 hearted.

i know there is a great support system here on hbt. i hope you find your problem soon. best to you.

If you have used the same water successfully, that doesn't rule it out. I would try using bottled water for your next batch just to be sure. I can't see anything that you have named that would give you issues. You sure you can't describe at all what it tastes like? This would help us a lot.

How old were the ingredients? What temps did you pitch your yeast at?

TheMan said:

If you have used the same water successfully, that doesn't rule it out. I would try using bottled water for your next batch just to be sure.

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This is true. Regarding chlorine or chloramines, they add a lot more during the warm months. Your water could taste ok to drink but the chlorine reacts with the malt to create the funkiness.

Can you access your water report? Sometimes they're available online. Some water supplies also have crazy amounts of sodium too. Hard to know without seeing a report.

I'm BJCP National. I've offered my help in identifying what the off flavor is to others in the past. I would be more than happy to taste your beer if you wanted to send me 1 bottle from 2-3 of the infected batches. PM me if that's something you're interested in and I'll send you my address.

But, to what the other comments have said, my best guess based on the info you provided is your water. Levels of chlorine / chloramine can be below what you can taste in just drinking your water (ie: it doesn't "taste chlorinated") and can still have enough in that to react and produce some pretty awful phenloics - medicinal, bandaid, plastic, burnt or smokey tastes. The level of the chemical in the water can varry substantially. Also, don't forget even if you're boiliing it out of your "brewing" water, the water you're still using for things like mixing sanitizer, rinsing cleaner, etc, can still transfer chlorine into your beer.

I've found it's much easier to help figure out what is causing the problem when you actually know what the problem is, and if we can identify what the off flavor is in the beer that could really go a long way to helping you diagnose and fix the issue. Don't give up, everyone who brews runs into issues along the way.

My one buddy brewed a bunch of good beers and then had a few bad batches. The only thing he did different was up the boil volume and wasn't getting a good boil. He was getting this off flavor I'm guessing that could be dms kinda tasted like cooked corn. He was boiling on the stove and had to have the lid on to get a better boil. I told him to go back to a smaller boil volume to get the boil back up and that flavor was gone. I don't know if this is your flavor or issue but could be an option.

Based on what you said I'd say it's your fermentation temps. Ferment at 62-64* or below to be sure. Undrinkable to me means fusels.

tesilential said:

Based on what you said I'd say it's your fermentation temps. Ferment at 62-64* or below to be sure. Undrinkable to me means fusels.

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Plenty of people ferment WAY higher than that with no ill effects. I constantly ferment at 65 and above, and have not had any off flavors, or any trace of high amounts of fusel. The range you describe is way below what I would typically ferment an ale at. Of course without any kind of descriptor from him we may never know.

I'd put $5 on your water. My water tastes fine, but I recently found out that the city uses a small amount of Chloramine to treat our water, and I think I can really taste it after the beer ferments. My distilled water batches are clean.

The taste is very hard to describe. Maybe almost like a blowup toy.

Just try a few batches with bottled water. Then try a few with campden.

if you can't find a water report online you can also send in a sample to Ward Labs for ~$15 and they will test it for you and send you the report

Thanks everyone i will buy some water for my next batch hopefully that will solve the issue otherwise i wwill come back and seak more assistance from the forum believe me i dont want to quit i enjoy brewing i just dont like wasting money!