Element Light always On - SSR Leakage?

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canyonbrewer

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Hi all -

I've read a few threads on this, but I still can't get it through my thick skull.

I have an "element on" pilot light on my control panel. I only want it to light when both:

A. PID is sending power *AND*
B. Element Relay is closed.

Basically, I want what Kal has.

It is a 120v pilot light. It is getting power from the black 120 output (black is SSR switched) of the element relay and neutral.

The way I have it wired, the light is always on if the Element Relay is closed.

I don't understand how I can fix this.

Do I need to buy a 240v pilot light?

Here is a cheesy picture of my current wiring diagram:

light%252520always%252520on.JPG


Please help me fix this.

Thanks!
 
I'm no electrician but you are feeding it live current at all times and providing neutral so it lights. You need to be on the other side (red in your diagram) to the pilot lamp. I think!
 
I'm no electrician but you are feeding it live current at all times and providing neutral so it lights. You need to be on the other side (red in your diagram) to the pilot lamp. I think!

thanks sam....but I would think that the opposite of what you said would be true.

in my wiring, the SSR is switching the black 120 on and off. So hence, the light should be off at some points in time...unless the SSR is leaking current.

the red in my diagram is always hot when the relay is closed.
 
You need to put 240v lights in series with the element. If you look at Kal's panel that is how he has it wired. Your circuit will have a current loop from the hot in to the neutral, exactly how home wiring is done.
 
You need to put 240v lights in series with the element. If you look at Kal's panel that is how he has it wired. Your circuit will have a current loop from the hot in to the neutral, exactly how home wiring is done.

Thanks Bill...but doesn't Kal have the light wired in parallel with his element?
 
It's leakage.

so...why would a 240v light fix this?

if black hot is leaking current while SSR is "off" and red hot is flowing current as long as the relay is open, wouldn't the 240 light have the same problem?

can someone explain this in detail?
 
Have you tried it with the element plugged in? I use a 120v light. Mine will light from SSR leakage current until I plug in the element.
 
Really simple to explain, your 120Y is feeding it in serie with the element.

Fixing it is an other story, you'll have to find a 240V light or put a resitor in serie with your 120v(find the good size) and plug it in parallel with the element on 120Xto element and 120y to element.

element light.jpg
 
Have you tried it with the element plugged in? I use a 120v light. Mine will light from SSR leakage current until I plug in the element.

+1 even then it can still have voltage through the element and the red leg just with some resistance on it.
 
I think that you need a 240V pilot light in parallel with your element. As it is now, you have a path with the element relay closed from the red 120V side THROUGH the element, back through light to neutral - regardless of whether the SSR is conducting. The light takes VERY little current which can easily be supplied from the element which has a very low resistance. The 240V light across the element will only come on when each 120V path is completed via the SSR AND element relay. This is if I'm understanding the drawing. This could easily be verified if you lift the wire from the element and/or SSR one at a time and operate the element relay and watch the light.

I'm a little slow -SimBrew summed it up nicely.....
 
+1 even then it can still have voltage through the element and the red leg just with some resistance on it.

same problem whether or not the element is plugged in....although when the element is *not* plugged in...the light is dim when SSR is off and bright when SSR in on.

3 votes for a 240v light. I'll go that route. Thanks ALL happy holidays!
 
Canyonbrew, please let me know how your testing goes, since I have a simlilar problem. I have some 240V lights, but I won't have time to test this for a bit.
 
same problem whether or not the element is plugged in....although when the element is *not* plugged in...the light is dim when SSR is off and bright when SSR in on.

3 votes for a 240v light. I'll go that route. Thanks ALL happy holidays!

Then you got 2 problems, one is when the element is pluged, the light get about 60V (I didn't calculate that) from the red 120y.

When the element is unpluged, you get some voltage from the leaking ssr.

try to mesure the voltage to the lamp with and without the element.
 
My system and indicator lights are 240v. With the heater unplugged, the indicator light has a low glow. Plugging in the heater element to the circuit makes the indicator go out. I've checked the heater element and its still cool in this "unenergized" state, but its clear that there must be a teeny current leakage through all 6 of the 40a Fotek SSRs in my 3 heater circuits since all 3 indicator lights display this habit. I assume that the heater elements pass that teeny current and drop the voltage enough to fall below the threshold for the LED indicator lights. The heater elements and the indicator lights operate normally when they are energized via the PIDs or PWM.

Its clear that this current leakage could be a problem. In my case, I unplug the elements anytime when not in actual use.
 
My system and indicator lights are 240v. With the heater unplugged, the indicator light has a low glow. Plugging in the heater element to the circuit makes the indicator go out. I've checked the heater element and its still cool in this "unenergized" state, but its clear that there must be a teeny current leakage through all 6 of the 40a Fotek SSRs in my 3 heater circuits since all 3 indicator lights display this habit. I assume that the heater elements pass that teeny current and drop the voltage enough to fall below the threshold for the LED indicator lights. The heater elements and the indicator lights operate normally when they are energized via the PIDs or PWM.

Its clear that this current leakage could be a problem. In my case, I unplug the elements anytime when not in actual use.

do you have the 240v light wired in parallel with the element?
 
If you are getting leakage current with the 120V lamp, I think you will get the same with the 240V lamp.

My indicator lamps are placed before the SSR. If you swap the positions of the relay and ssr in your circuit, and monitor power at the input the ssr you can avoid this problem. If you want to see when the SSR is switched on, add an LED to the dc input. This will not indicate actual power to the element but will let you know that power should/could be there and will provide a visual for safety.
 
If you tap a 120V lamp off the switched SSR hot line and neutral and have no element plugged in, it will light up due to leakage.

If you tap a 120V lamp off the switched SSR hot line and neutral and have the element plugged in, it will light up due to the path from the OTHER hot line, through the element, through the light, and then to neutral. Doesn't matter whether the SSR is or is not firing. It will light up all the time.

If you tap a 240V lamp off the switched SSR hot line and the other hot line and have no element plugged in, it will light up due to leakage.

If you tap a 240V lamp off the switched SSR hot line and the other hot line, and have the element plugged in, it will only light up when the element is actually firing (leakage current will almost all go through the element since it is MUCH lower resistance than the light).
 
If you tap a 120V lamp off the switched SSR hot line and neutral and have no element plugged in, it will light up due to leakage.

If you tap a 120V lamp off the switched SSR hot line and neutral and have the element plugged in, it will light up due to the path from the OTHER hot line, through the element, through the light, and then to neutral.

If you tap a 240V lamp off the switched SSR hot line and the other hot line and have no element plugged in, it will light up due to leakage.

If you tap a 240V lamp off the switched SSR hot line and the other hot line, and have the element plugged in, it will only light up when the element is actually firing (leakage current will almost all go through the element since it is MUCH lower resistance than the light).

best explanation so far! thanks walker
 
If you tap a 120V lamp off the switched SSR hot line and neutral and have no element plugged in, it will light up due to leakage.

If you tap a 120V lamp off the switched SSR hot line and neutral and have the element plugged in, it will light up due to the path from the OTHER hot line, through the element, through the light, and then to neutral. Doesn't matter whether the SSR is or is not firing. It will light up all the time.

If you tap a 240V lamp off the switched SSR hot line and the other hot line and have no element plugged in, it will light up due to leakage.

If you tap a 240V lamp off the switched SSR hot line and the other hot line, and have the element plugged in, it will only light up when the element is actually firing (leakage current will almost all go through the element since it is MUCH lower resistance than the light).

Walker.... You rock!

Now you just need to do wiring diagrams like P-J and become a legend. I joke but you guys are the best!
 
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