help w/ ideas on my 1st e-brew

at first i was thinking of a rims tube because i like the portability. then i changed my mind to build a electric boil kettle instead. im cheap and thing the stainless pipes are expensive and i dont need to do a tube.

i see a lot of cool looking recirculating e-biab. now i need recommendations on power. how about (2) 3500w 240v at 120v (875w) = 1750w?

http://www.homedepot.com/p/t/100207222?catalogId=10053&langId=-1&keyword=WATER+HEATER+ELEMENT&storeId=10051&N=5yc1v&R=100207222#.UVXcxxdaySo

how can i wire 2 of these up using 1 pid at 120v? i have a pid and a 40 ssr on the way. i need enough power to do a rolling boil in 30 min. or less w/ a 6 gal. batch

What size/type of pot do you have? I had an 8 gallon kettle that even insulated couldn't boil on 1500 watts. Why go with the 240v elements at all? Why not 2 1500 watt? My current build is going to be using 2 2000watts, but I don't know if you have 20a circuits...

More info would be helpful

i was thinking about 120v elements but i may be going to 240 in the future for even more power. my kettle is also 8 gallons.

i might take up on your advice and try these:

http://www.toolboxsupply.com/water-heater-screw-in-element-1500w-120v.html

If you're going to go for 240V, why not go for the ULWD 5500W 240V Camco elements? Even at 120V you can get 2750W. Do you have a 25 or 30A circuit?

i havent got the circuits, yet. so if i went with 2 2750w 120v elements, do i need 2 30a circuits?

i saw this guys build and i might be doing it similar but a little simpiler w/ out all the lights and just 1 emerg. stop

I don't think they make 2750W 120V heater elements. I got this number because:

The 5500W elements can only produce this much power when operating at 240V. If you cut the voltage in half, to the normal 120V your wall receptacle provides, your power drops by a quarter (to 1375W). Since you have two, your can deliver 2750W. Assuming they are on the same circuit:

I=P/V
=2750W/120V
=22.9A

A chugger pump draws about 1.3A at 120V, so if you are working with one, you will be drawing somewhere in the neighborhood of 24.2-24.5A or 25.5A if using two pumps (then the minor additions of lights, your PID controller, etc...). It would be best to run this on a 30A circuit just to be safe (no need for multiple circuits).

Check your control box and see if you have any 30A circuits outdoors (or wherever you brew). This will be shown on the breaker. If you don't have a 30A circuit, or there isn't one where you brew/are planning to brew, you'll need to have an electrician come in and wire one up for you (this can be done by yourself, and inspected by an electrician, but I don't recommend it, especially if you have no professional experience in the field). If you have to do get one put in, you might as well get him to install a 240V, 30A circuit, so that you don't have to deal with 120V at all.

I'm relatively new to all of this electrical stuff as well, so I'm not sure everything right there is 100% correct. I'll leave it to someone more qualified to confirm what I've said here.

inda_bebe said:

i havent got the circuits, yet. so if i went with 2 2750w 120v elements, do i need 2 30a circuits?

i saw this guys build and i might be doing it similar but a little simpiler w/ out all the lights and just 1 emerg. stop

Click to expand...

if you don't have the circuits / are installing new ones, why not just install a 220 @ 30 amps and be done with it?

JayMac said:

If you're going to go for 240V, why not go for the ULWD 5500W 240V Camco elements? Even at 120V you can get 2750W. Do you have a 25 or 30A circuit?

Click to expand...

If you run a 5500w 240v element at 120v you get 1/4 the power. I.e. it will be 1375w. Read through the Electrical Primer that's stickied at the top of this forum.

stlbeer said:

If you run a 5500w 240v element at 120v you get 1/4 the power. I.e. it will be 1375w. Read through the Electrical Primer that's stickied at the top of this forum.

Click to expand...

He's using two elements though, 2x1375W=2750W

JayMac said:

He's using two elements though, 2x1375W=2750W

Click to expand...

Ok, I missed the part where you stated the 1375 watts.

i finally decided to go 240v w/ a 5500w element. now i have to research to see if i can get the confidence to do this myself.

i will be ordering a:

PID controller
temp reader
40a ssr
duel rocker switch
a cheap ebay pump
5500w element
1a fuse holder
240v GFCI outlets/plugs

anything else i might need?
parts or diagrams would be helpful

trying to make it similar to this:


http://www.highgravitybrew.com/productcart/pc/EBC-SV-with-Infinite-Power-Control-306p3986.htm

i see that there is some kind of rotary switch to control the power, is this recommended?

When I have read the description of that highgravitybrew unit, I get the impression that the dial controls power output to the element whether or not you are using the PID to maintain temp. If I am correct, wouldn't different output settings on the dial require the PID to have different settings. E.g., wouldn't autotuning the PID with dial at 25% yield very different results than autotuning with the dial at 100%? An alternative design would bypass the PID when using the dial, and bypass the dial when using the PID. In any case, setting the dial at the same place every time you use the PID would solve this problem, although I don't know how easy it is to do that other than at 100%.

Personally, with a PID that supports manual mode I really see limited benefit to the dial, but some certainly prefer the analog user interface for the boil, and that's fine.

jeffmeh said:

When I have read the description of that highgravitybrew unit, I get the impression that the dial controls power output to the element whether or not you are using the PID to maintain temp. If I am correct, wouldn't different output settings on the dial require the PID to have different settings. E.g., wouldn't autotuning the PID with dial at 25% yield very different results than autotuning with the dial at 100%? An alternative design would bypass the PID when using the dial, and bypass the dial when using the PID. In any case, setting the dial at the same place every time you use the PID would solve this problem, although I don't know how easy it is to do that other than at 100%.

Personally, with a PID that supports manual mode I really see limited benefit to the dial, but some certainly prefer the analog user interface for the boil, and that's fine.

Click to expand...

I get waht your saying, but after several talks with the peeps at High Gravity, it really is just the fact that they like the analog control. Run the PID at 100% output, dial in your boil, and it really is only for the boil, with the knob.

Sure you can do that with a PID that supports manual mode, but this will keep your PID from switching, and should increase the lifespan of your parts.

But in the end, it just comes down to what HG likes and wants to build/offer. No one way is better than the other, but YMMV!

Cheers

Tim

I am actually more concerned about keeping the dial at the same position when using the PID in PID mode (not manual), but as I said, if you keep the dial at max during this every time it should not be an issue. I still consider a superior design to be something like a 3-way switch that enables either the PID or the dial to fire the element, but never both.

i just found out that i dont have a 240v outlet in my garage and dont want to do a conversion. so im just going to keep it as simple as possible. im going to stick w/ a 120v maybe even dual element

it will cost me $400 to run a 30amp 240 servive to my garage, was in the same boat as you

So I decided to use (2) 2000w 120v elements wired to a PID and 1 40a SSR. I'm no electrician but I want a plan that is so simple that even I can put it together. Heres an example how simple I need to build this thing.

https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f170/step-step-build-110v-portable-pid-controller-379938/

I want include another switch and outlet for a 12v pump. Can someone please help?

Are you confident that you have the power supply in the garage to handle that load? Each element is pulling 16amps, so unless you plan to only use one element at a time (then why bother putting in two?), or you have a 40 amp circuit, or you have two 20 amp circuits that aren't on the same breaker... you can't do it safely. The chances of you having a 40 amp circuit to your garage is pretty slim, and I can't say I've ever seen a garage with two dedicated circuits unless it was set up to be a shop.

And then you want to throw in a 12v pump, so add a transformer and power-limited wiring... why bother?

BadNewsBrewery said:

Are you confident that you have the power supply in the garage to handle that load? Each element is pulling 16amps, so unless you plan to only use one element at a time (then why bother putting in two?), or you have a 40 amp circuit, or you have two 20 amp circuits that aren't on the same breaker... you can't do it safely. The chances of you having a 40 amp circuit to your garage is pretty slim, and I can't say I've ever seen a garage with two dedicated circuits unless it was set up to be a shop.

And then you want to throw in a 12v pump, so add a transformer and power-limited wiring... why bother?

Click to expand...

Thanks for the heads up, back to more research

If you run (2) 120V 1500W elements, and used a 110V chugger pump, you can run this all on a 30A circuit.

Otherwise, you can get an electrician to come in and install whatever circuit you need.

I'm changing my mind everyday as I read, lol. Note I think I'm going to go with a dual 1650w or 1500w 120v system. I wanted to keep it super simple so that I can take the controller with me if I ever wanted to brew on vacation. I like the use of using a PC cord cause its everywhere and if I ever needed faster heart time I can just brew it on top of flames in addition to the elements.

So here's my setup and tell me what you think.
Inspired by
https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f170/how-build-5-gal-110v-ebiab-kettle-304914/
https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f170/step-step-build-110v-portable-pid-controller-379938/


1 - 1650w 120v element for the controller
1 - 2000w 120v element (stand alone)
SYL-2352 PID
40a SSR
Heatsink
15a light switches / outlet
PC cord / outlet
the little black ebay 12v pump to recirculate

http://www.ebay.com/itm/121080639257?ssPageName=STRK:MEWNX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1439.l2649

with a dc plug inside of the box running the pump