5500W element in my HLT
Kill-A-Watt Brewery Build Compilation
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5500W element in my HLT
babalu87
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The Pol
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That is 240VAC
babalu87
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How does this work if the Love maxes out at 16 amps?
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The Pol
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Well, the amps would be higher at 120VAC, but...
You use an SSR to switch the current, not the Love... the Love just tells the SSR to do so.
babalu87
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I'm overthinking a bit
120 I'm fine but my brain gets mushy with 240
The dual relay thing is getting to me.
This. I am just using the LOVE to tell the SSR to come on or shut off.
It is 240V .. and at the moment I only have one SSR.
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The Pol
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Well, PIDs dont use relays to switch the SSR, they use a low voltage signal to trip the SSR... something like 3VDC. If your Love only has an internal relay, it wont be a simple matter of running a wire from the Love to the SSR
babalu87
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The Pol
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If you ONLY use our PID/SSR to turn on and off the power, you really need to have (2) SSRs or an SSRD to cut power to both legs, really, yes. I am using (2) SSRs per element and one for each pump, 10 in all
babalu87
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I'll be plugging mine into a cable that we use in the event of a power outage.
Power goes out we shut off the main and plug that cable into the genset then cycle the breaker.
Its wired to a double pole breaker in the panel and is always off.
That cable has a male twist lock plug.
The work box I make up will have the female side to facilitate using this power source.
I would probably be fine with a single SSR as it would be unplugged and put away after each use.
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The Pol
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It isnt necessarily about after use... it is about the fact that when the PID isnt commanding the element on, there is still current running to your kettle. I would just prefer to know that if the element isnt heating, the element is DEAD, which is why I chose to use dual SSRs on each element.
If I can find another SSR that matches the one I have I will.
I have a DPST switch that I use to kill the element completley.
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The Pol
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babalu87
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Got it!
Oh, no worries my friend will be assisting in the SAFE wiring of this but its nice to know the principals behind it
One more relay and the element.
Might get it done for this weekend
Want to brew but staring this in the face:
Super Awesome
I like your opinion!
babalu87
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ROFL
I just got confused again.
What if you forget the shut off the switch?
I just got confused again.
What if you forget the shut off the switch?
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The Pol
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It is basically a safey, it is off when you arent wanting to run the kettle (or whatever) I suppose you can forget to shut it off, but it is better than not having the option to forget it!
babalu87
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Almost had me buying a switch
I'm getting a matching relay
Sorry for the thread detour.
WOW, Thanks. That's very good to know~!!
It helps me with my decision tree whether to use SST aluminum or copper tubes in my flat block tube chiller build.
You mean against the chance that there might be an accidental ground fault in the 240 line sending power through the neutral lines or maybe the ground~??
So, against that possibility you are interrupting both the hot and neutral lines off with an SSR?
CodeRage
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There is no Neutral using 240V. It's 120V on each side 180 deg out of phase. The potential between the two is 240V.
The SSRs cut off each one of the 120V legs. You can cut one leg loose and stop current flow and the element would be 'off'. However, one of the wires going to the element will have 120V on it still. So to be safe he is cutting both 120V legs to the element.
Another way to do this and save a few dollars is use a rated mechanical relay. For my 120v element I have a 20a mechanical relay that is wired to a switch on my panel. That way I can make sure the element is off when I need it to be.
I got SSR's pretty cheap in china so I went with duals on my 240v. You could however find a mechanical relay rated for 30a.
I chose 12vdc coils in my relays because my control panel only has 12v. I kept all the line voltage in a sealed panel in the back. I am also using a mechanical relay to turn my pump on/off.
I got SSR's pretty cheap in china so I went with duals on my 240v. You could however find a mechanical relay rated for 30a.
I chose 12vdc coils in my relays because my control panel only has 12v. I kept all the line voltage in a sealed panel in the back. I am also using a mechanical relay to turn my pump on/off.
Hermit
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240V is actually single phase that is center tapped for the neutral. They appear opposite phase compared to the neutral because you are looking at opposite sides of the wave but you actually have single phase 240V delivered.
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The Pol
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All hots on my system will be cut with SSRs... no hots left hot when a certain portion of the rig is commanded off. So if I go into the BCS and select (RIMS HEATER 1) OFF... it is off, there is no current to that element at all, period.
True, if you cut ONE hot, the element isnt heating, but you can still get a poke.
This seemed reasonable to me. SSRs and heatsinks are cheap and I dont want to have SS everything and then have all of this current running around the rig when everything is "off" in the BCS. I am NOT going to tell anyone how to build thier rig, and I am not saying my way is the "right" way... but this is the reasoning that I used.
True, if you cut ONE hot, the element isnt heating, but you can still get a poke.
This seemed reasonable to me. SSRs and heatsinks are cheap and I dont want to have SS everything and then have all of this current running around the rig when everything is "off" in the BCS. I am NOT going to tell anyone how to build thier rig, and I am not saying my way is the "right" way... but this is the reasoning that I used.
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The Pol
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Hard to photograph though. Luckily I have a semi pro HBT buddy here that is willing to come take photos of it when it is complete. I suck at photography
So are you using three SSR's for your 240v? one for PID function and 2 to cut power?
When I hit the switch for my 120v relay the current is off. On my 240v I have one SSR going to the PWM control which I can turn down to the "off" position, and the second SSR on a switch to cut the second leg.
With the BCS, can you just cut signal to both SSR's and then a third on a physical switch?
CodeRage
Death by Magumba!
You're not telling me anything I don't already understand. Just trying to explain something to some one who clearly doesn't understand the concept. Mirrored/180 oop is it really necessary to split hairs for this application?
Thanks for the education....
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The Pol
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I only need (2) SSRs for a 240VAC element. Both are tied to the same PID function on the BCS. Why do I need three switches (SSRs)?
Hermit
fuddle
You're not telling me anything I don't already understand. Just trying to explain something to some one who clearly doesn't understand the concept. Mirrored/180 oop is it really necessary to split hairs for this application?
Thanks for the education....
I've been in the appliance repair business for over 30 years. I still run into guys that don't understand the correct way of thinking about it and still don't understand why it isn't considered "two phase". Your way of explaining it is EXACTLY the way it was first explained to these guys and it is hard for them to get that out of their thinking. (I didn't actually understand it until taking a engineering course) So to you it might be a 'hair' but I have seen people walking around confused for YEARS because of it. I think it is actually easier to explain it as a 240 volt transformer that is center tapped for neutral from the start. Now it is intuitive as to why it is single phase. Just MY experience though.
I guess I didn't understand how you were installing everything in relation to the BCS. The reason I thought you might need a third is because of safety outside of the BCS. I think you mentioned this in another thread. The E-Stop button function. I was assuming from your post that you were only going to use the BCS to shut off current. I thought you would need a third to run to a physical switch for safety reasons.
So it looks like you are going to interrupt the outputs from the BCS with a switch. Is that right?
CodeRage
Death by Magumba!
I see what you're driving at, and perhaps I've found it is just easier to explain it to people this way. Perhaps I am lazy on my part. However sir, you need to work on your delivery
All I got from your initial post was a quick summary enough to say, "technically you're wrong and I'll be vague enough to show you I'm right. The rest of the audience is still in the dark, never mind the fact I am bringing this up to educate them."Something more or less like L1 to Neutral and L2 to Neutral only pick up a quarter cycle of the wave form resulting in half the amplitude when compared to L1 and L2's half cycle. Then you need to get into RMS and all that good stuff because we shouldn't confuse people that it isn't 240V peak to peak. And I am sure we can drill down to something else from there.
Any how, we're not educating electricians or engineers. If you feel you need to know that much about it then take a class. It's enough to get some one to understand the gist of it. Perhaps it frustrates you because you were taught wrong starting off in a trade when you should have been shown the right way the first time. I agree with that.
Regardless, cheers.
Sorry for polluting the thread Pol. I'm done talking about it.
Me No Seeee New Pics
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The Pol
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Me No Seeee New Pics
Then you aint looking hard enough, first page, near the SSRs
Duh, forgot U r su-fist-a-cated. What is the material? I like the originality. I thought it was going to be all boring, like stainless.
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The Pol
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Duh, forgot U r su-fist-a-cated. What is the material? I like the originality. I thought it was going to be all boring, like stainless.
It is a high temp +210F black/charcoal nylon sheeting. It will be the surface of the work area... I thought it would give good contrast with the SS components.
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The Pol
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New Pic posted to show the "plumbing controls" very clean... this is the ONLY plumbing/wiring you will see. This work top will probably sit atop something refined looking and cherry wood in color. Not industrial.
SEE FIRST PAGE NEAR SSRs
SEE FIRST PAGE NEAR SSRs
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