Repitching on primary = yeast bomb!

I tried this for the first time last night: I racked my saison (made with Wyeast 1214, known to be a very active fermeter) and immediately pitched a dubbel on the yeast cake on the bottom of the carboy. I pitched at about 11:00 last night. I atteached a blow-off hose and went to bed.

At 5:30 this morning, it was fermenting like nothing I've ever seen, and had already expelled close to a quart of kreusen. It's very entertaining just to watch & listen.

cweston,

I'm in the same boat as you brutha! I pitched an amber cerveza on top of a cake from an Amer. Cream Ale and WOW! The airlock is emitting a steady stream of bubbles, but no blowout yet. I had activity within 30 minutes of pitching as well. The fermentation temp is a couple degrees higher than a usual ferment, too.

I tried my first repitching just this batch. Worked fine. But since then I've read some site about required yeast amounts, and about 1 cup of sediment ought to do fine. I suppose anymore than a couple tablespoons would mimic how much is in the usual starter, next time I'll dump half or more of it out of the fermenter.

casebrew said:

I tried my first repitching just this batch. Worked fine. But since then I've read some site about required yeast amounts, and about 1 cup of sediment ought to do fine.

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Yes--I agree that repitching on the entire yeast cake is clearly overkill, although I'm sure it doesn't hurt anything (except that I'm losing some volume to blow-off).

The advantage is that it's no fuss, no muss: I racked the first batch while the new batch was chilling, popped the airlock back on until the new batch was ready, then just dumped it in. No dumping the yeast cake into a new container or anything else that risks a sanitation breach.

You can always harvest after racking the re-pitched batch. I suppose the recaptured yeast would be less "mutated" after just one primary ferment, but I doubt that's really worth worrying about.

I pitch on the cake for very high gravity ales and barleywines. Since I like Milds and Browns, I'll do one first. I've learned to put the fermenter in the sink for the first 24 hours, although the next IPA might end up in the bathtub. There was a lot of krausen.

David- mice in your secondary? wow! Now that's an interesting adjunct!

I tried using a primary cake for the first time a couple weeks ago. The cake was from a dunkel weizen that a poured ontop of a weizenbock. At a gravity of 1.100 and no areation device I was afraid of it finishing high and sweet. Even without an areation device the cake took off the next day, racked to secondary after day 10. I did not take a hydro reading but the sample I tasted was to my surprise rather dry. Now to brew a lager to have a cake for a traditional bock.

Obviously you would want to put a similar style beer on the cake, since you're using the same yeast, but how much will the flavor be affected by the previous beer? Negligible?

rewster451 said:

Obviously you would want to put a similar style beer on the cake, since you're using the same yeast, but how much will the flavor be affected by the previous beer? Negligible?

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I did a porter 1st then an IPA after that on recipes I do repeatedly. No taste difference but recipe is the same yeast strain. I siphon down low; tilt the primary so there is little liquid left after I pitch. I also go to secondary after about 3 days when pitching onto a slurry as it is almost always done by this time.

I've never pitched directly onto a yeast cake but I recently started harvesting the yeast out of the primary. Both times it sat a week in the fridge. All I did was set it out the night before brew day and let it warm up to room temperature. It only took about 30 minutes for bubbles to start after pitching and after an hour it was rock and roll. I wish I would have done this years ago!

I brewed a pilsner last week with WLP0838 (O.G. 1.045).
Next week I plan to put a marzen (O.G. around 1.060) on the yeast cake.
I brew 3 gallon batches in 5 gallon carboys. Will this be enough head space?

I am about to reuse the leftover yeast from my first ever batch, a brown ale, for the Expedition Clone I am getting ready for.
All this feedback is encouraging.
How concerned should I be about the initial agitation when the new wort goes in on the yeast cake/sludge?
I understand that you typically do NOT agitate or areate after/during pitching.

Rookie said:

I brew 3 gallon batches in 5 gallon carboys. Will this be enough head space?

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Dunno: I'd start w/ a blowoff hose just to be safe.

RichBrewer said:

I've never pitched directly onto a yeast cake but I recently started harvesting the yeast out of the primary. Both times it sat a week in the fridge. All I did was set it out the night before brew day and let it warm up to room temperature. It only took about 30 minutes for bubbles to start after pitching and after an hour it was rock and roll. I wish I would have done this years ago!

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I'm with ya - why haven't I done this since the beginning??? I pitched yeast yesterday from a previous batch that had been in the fridge for a few days, and I couldn't believe how fast it took off!

So is the consensus that you should only harvest the yeast from the primary a few times? After that it's no good?

Lil' Sparky said:

I'm with ya - why haven't I done this since the beginning??? I pitched yeast yesterday from a previous batch that had been in the fridge for a few days, and I couldn't believe how fast it took off!

So is the consensus that you should only harvest the yeast from the primary a few times? After that it's no good?

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Yes on primary yeast preferred. Typical is not to go beyond three generations from your saved yeast. That can go a long way though. Say you harvest the yeast from your primary 1st generation. I usually get 3 16 oz bottles saved (1/2 full). Label them date + generation. When you are going to use this saved yeast you'll only use one bottle. Make a starter to make sure it's good and active 2-3 days in advance. Now if you saved this yeast you'd get 3 more bottles labeled generation 2. Recall though that you haven't used your other 1st generation yeasts. You'll have more yeast than you know what to do with it. However, I also won't use beyond 6 months and have recipes that change up the yeast to use. In actuality I probably get 4-6 batches from one vial because of age or lack of storage space.

Sorry this is late in the discussion, but from what I'm reading, I am able to rack from my primary to my secondary and then pour a new batch of 5 gallon wort into my primary (without cleaning it or anything) and fermentation will start again?

SkewedAle said:

Sorry this is late in the discussion, but from what I'm reading, I am able to rack from my primary to my secondary and then pour a new batch of 5 gallon wort into my primary (without cleaning it or anything) and fermentation will start again?

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That's right. Just be ready to rumble, because this will produce an incredibly active and fast fermentation. Blow-off hose is mandatory.

That sounds pretty cool, I'm definitely dooing that for my next batch. Now, also, can I scoop up the sludge in a sanitized jar and save that in my fridge and then create a starter with that, or is there more to it?

SkewedAle said:

Now, also, can I scoop up the sludge in a sanitized jar and save that in my fridge and then create a starter with that, or is there more to it?

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Yes--just be sure to follow your best possible sanitization practice.

Here (http://www.wyeastlab.com/hbrew/hbyewash.htm) is a link to instructions for yeast washing on Wyeast's site. The idea is to keep the yeast slurry and not keep the trub.

SkewedAle said:

That sounds pretty cool, I'm definitely dooing that for my next batch. Now, also, can I scoop up the sludge in a sanitized jar and save that in my fridge and then create a starter with that, or is there more to it?

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Yes, you can do that. You will get break material and hops, as well. Some people think this is bad, some think it doesn't matter. I add one more step to the process to get as close to pure yeast as I can without getting into a complicated process:

1) Add enough water (I use tap, you can boil it if it concerns you) to 'resuspend' the trub.
2) Pour this into a large pitcher (I have a 1g pitcher). Add enough water to make it 'liquidy', not too much of a sludge, if necessary.
3) Wait about an hour. At this point most non-yeasties will have settled to the bottom of the pitcher.
4) Decant the yeast-laden water into sanitized jars and refridgerate. By the next morning you will have a layer of yeast on the bottom with clear liquid above it. You can decant the clear liquid before making a starter from the yeast.

RichBrewer said:

I've never pitched directly onto a yeast cake but I recently started harvesting the yeast out of the primary. Both times it sat a week in the fridge. All I did was set it out the night before brew day and let it warm up to room temperature. It only took about 30 minutes for bubbles to start after pitching and after an hour it was rock and roll. I wish I would have done this years ago!

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So, you just pour all the trub out of your primary into a jar then seal it and put it in the fridge? And then you just poor the entire jar into your new brew? (after letting it warm up)

It seemed like I had a lot of trub when I did my first batch, probably at least a Qt.

In my backyard are several flat, octagonal landscape pavers (about 16 inches accross) that we piled up at one point cause we didn't want them where they were but thought we might use them some day.

I'm thinking that if cleaned up, one could easily spread a pound or two of grain over one and place the other on top and swish it around a little. Voila: stone "ground" grains.
Anyone ever tried it? I think the trick wuld be getting them clean enough to be willing to give it a shot. Maybe if I had one of those pressure steam cleaners or something...

cweston said:

In my backyard are several flat, octagonal landscape pavers (about 16 inches accross) that we piled up at one point cause we didn't want them where they were but thought we might use them some day.

I'm thinking that if cleaned up, one could easily spread a pound or two of grain over one and place the other on top and swish it around a little. Voila: stone "ground" grains.
Anyone ever tried it? I think the trick wuld be getting them clean enough to be willing to give it a shot. Maybe if I had one of those pressure steam cleaners or something...

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weird idea....

Oops--sorry about the misplaced post in this thread.