Autolysis...BUSTED!!!

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ISLAGI

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At this point I think that I will officially ignore anyone rabbiting on about the dangers of autolysis :p

Last night I bottled a batch of Ed's Haus Pale that had been sitting in primary on the yeast (Notty) for 109 DAYS!!!

Based on the hydrometer/dregs taste I got last night this is my best light-colored beer to date (15 batches). :ban: It was nicely balanced, the hydro sample was crystal clear, and I was almost ready to drink the entire batch uncarbed. (Probably just as well because of the carb issue I had)

It's like hitting one perfect golf shot during a round of 125. None of the other shots matter because of that one moment of perfection!

I am reinvigorated in my madness!!!!:D

Thanks for everyone's help to date!
 
autolysis is real, and I would be wondering what kind of off flavors a BJCP judge would be able to detect in your beer if entered.
 
I wouldn't call this one "Busted", more like "Plausible".

I think a lot of people have found out through direct experience that the risk of autolysis is dependent on several factors and that if you have good brewing technique, this risk is minimal. It's not as certain as we have been lead to believe.

But autolysis can happen.

-Steve

p.s. I'm watching Mythbusters right now.
 
autolysis is real, and I would be wondering what kind of off flavors a BJCP judge would be able to detect in your beer if entered.

Well, maybe, maybe not. But only one person here has tasted it, so we have to give him the benefit of the doubt don't we? You are, in effect telling us that his beer has off flavours based solely on your own guesswork.
 
I wouldn't call this one "Busted", more like "Plausible".

I think a lot of people have found out through direct experience that the risk of autolysis is dependent on several factors and that if you have good brewing technique, this risk is minimal. It's not as certain as we have been lead to believe.

But autolysis can happen.

Agreed. Based upon my own experiences, I'd say it's theoretically possible but incredibly unlikely within the the guidelines and practices of the typical homebrewer. It's sure hard to find anybody who has actually experienced it, and those rare accounts all indicate that's hardly a subtle flaw that only an experienced judge could detect! On the contrary, words like "meaty" and "diaper" are often mentioned! :eek:

I'd go a step further and suggest that more harm has been caused by fear of autolysis than autolysis itself! Just a few days ago a newb fellow on another forum was four or five days into fermentation, about to leave town for a week, and wondering if he should immediately rack to secondary "to avoid autolysis." The unanimous response was RDWHAHB.

To the OP, I have every reason to believe you that your beer tastes great after 109 days in primary. I typically leave them in there 3-6 weeks, but I'm sure I could go longer with no ill effects.
 
I think the Mythbusters should do autolysis.

Imagine Carrie and some carboys.
 
I just busted something thinking about it. :D


On a more on topic note though, I have a batch that I need to bottle that is probably going on close to a month in primary. I haven't even started to worry yet.
 
I may have experienced autolysis, but I have no definite proof. From John Palmer:

"At a minimum, a beer that has experienced autolysis will have a burnt rubber taste and smell and will probably be undrinkable. At worst it will be unapproachable."

The batches that I think suffered autolysis have a distinct rubber taste to them that will not go away, and are barely drinkable. They're over a year and a half old now and aren't getting any better. Sorry, Revvy, but these will probably be dumped.

-Steve
 
My saison hit one month in the primary on Wednesday. Going to try to bottle it up this weekend if I can find time, but it's pretty iffy at the moment.
 
Feel free to jump on me here if I'm way off, but while I have not experienced autolysis in one of my own beers, I have had two commercial beers that have had a definitively meaty flavor. Others confirmed this taste and so far as I can tell the only culprit for a meaty off flavor is autolysis.
 
I've had the misfortune of sampling a Kölsch that was showing signs of autolysis just this week as a matter of fact; something went seriously awry during either the fermentation or aging and there was a definite 'diaper' aroma.

Autolysis happens.
 
From John Palmer:

"At a minimum, a beer that has experienced autolysis will have a burnt rubber taste and smell and will probably be undrinkable. At worst it will be unapproachable."

Of course in the next paragraph he says:

many experienced brewers, myself included, have been able to leave a beer in the primary fermenter for several months without any evidence of autolysis. Autolysis is not inevitable, but it is lurking.

Steve, tell us more about the rubbery brews. How long in primary, temperature, etc?
 
I have never had anything even close to this in my beers, and I agree it's a way over blown fear. However, don't try to say it simply doesn't exist!

In fact, last night I had a wild ale from Denmark, and according to the pro-brewer I shared it with it was autolyzed. In fact, it smelled of Vegemite, which is of course made from autolyzed yeast! Frankly I still enjoyed the beer. Vegemite and diapers are two different things.

I would never say Palmer is wrong, but burnt rubber may be on the extreme end, and this example certainly didn't taste or smell of burnt rubber. This pro knows his **** so I am using that as my refernce point for what an autolyzed beer is from this point on. If something tastes and smells like autolyzed yeast, it must be autolyzed yeast!
 
I thought we did this already. Autolysis exists, but the chances of it imparting off flavors to beer are slim (depending on light/dark, temperature and much more)
 
I've had two batches that had lysis issues, one was from my Bachelor party, I had some bottle conditioned beers out on the deck of the cabin we rented during a cold snow storm, so the bottles froze.

The beer had a definite change in flavor, slightly rubbery and vary off, and left a greasy feel in your mouth after drinking.

The second came from way over pitching a Belgian, same greasy feeling in the mouth and a hint of rubber, but the good thing was it really only became perceptible at the end of the keg.

If you want to taste lysis, freeze a bottle conditioned beer, and taste it side by side with one that was not frozen.

as for getting that flavor form not racking form the primary for three months, I doubt it.
 
A little reading...

Brew Your Own: The How-To Homebrew Beer Magazine - BYO and Basic Brewing Radio Experiment: Does Delayed Racking Harm Your Beer? -
 
I agree if the conditions are right and maybe not 100 % healthy yeast being used there could be a risk. To say it does not exist or will never happen would be a false statement.
 
lolin because the OP thinks his one experience with a beer on a yeast cake for a relatively short period of time has BUSTED a scientifically documented part of yeast life cycle...screw those scientists with their computers and research, conducting experiments to collect cold hard facts.
 
lolin because the OP thinks his one experience with a beer on a yeast cake for a relatively short period of time has BUSTED a scientifically documented part of yeast life cycle...screw those scientists with their computers and research, conducting experiments to collect cold hard facts.

Not to get pissy about it or anything....but over 3 1/2 months on the yeast isn't all that short.

Rereading my OP, i was a little more positive than I normally am. I should have been more specific and limited it to my personal brewing process and resources.

That being said, there's no need to pee in my Wheatie's. I'm pretty d*mn happy about my first real good AG batch.
 
That being said, there's no need to pee in my Wheatie's. I'm pretty d*mn happy about my first real good AG batch.
Didn't mean to dis your beer, I really am happy your beer turned out great and I am sure there are many more of those coming. It was nothing personal...I just hate sweeping assumptions like that.
 
A little reading...

Brew Your Own: The How-To Homebrew Beer Magazine - BYO and Basic Brewing Radio Experiment: Does Delayed Racking Harm Your Beer? -

Interesting reading, though an extra two weeks on the yeast cake after fermentation completes is likely way too little time to tempt the autolysis demon. Also, as a serious study it may have been fundamentally flawed, as most of the tastings were not blind. Even for the blind one it was not clear whether they did an A-A-B or just an A-B-C. Telling someone that there are three different beers and to describe the taste differences is very different than telling them that there are two different beers among the three, determine which two are the same, then describe the taste differences. Identifying the matching beers is an objective outcome with a 50/50 chance of random success. Everything else is completely subjective. The placebo effect is alive and well.

That being said, with the large number of people on here that opt for an extended primary, and the very few who report a problem, it is very reasonable to conclude that 3-4 weeks is highly unlikely to result in autolysis.

Maybe today is the day I should rack my Apfelwein that is on day 168 in primary, lol.
 
I dumped a batch yesterday which was ruined from autolysis.

I re-pitched some washed yeast from last November into a starter without re-washing it. Fermentation was fine, but there was enough dead yeast from the jar in the starter which in turn made it into the batch to ruin the whole batch of beer.

Now that I have started slanting, I will only wash yeast if I plan to re-pitch it within a couple of weeks. Lesson learned!
 
Maybe today is the day I should rack my Apfelwein that is on day 168 in primary, lol.

Well, that depends if it has cleared yet or not. :mug:

I have left primaries sit from 2 to 4 months and have not had this problem. Not saying it does not happen, it just seems kind of hard to do as a home brewer.
 

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