Lagering temps

Hello,

I'm brewing my first batch ever, and decided on a Xingu clone. I have a deep freeze set up with a temp controller. After I pitched my yeast, and before placing in the freezer I could see activity in the wort. Now that its been in for appx 48 hours, I don't see much activity at all...Is this normal? I've got the carboy set up with a blow off, but I have a simple air-lock I could switch to as well. Any suggestions would be welcome!

Welcome to HBT. We need more info... how long after your yeast and at what temperature was it before you put it in the freezer? What temp is the freezer set to?

But in general, temps for lagers are like this: 50°F for fermentation, 33-34°F for lagering. If you had fermentation start at room temp and then put it in a 50°F freezer, it might stall fermentation for a small amount of time, but should get started again. If you took it from room temp to 33°F, it will pretty much stop fermentation all together. In any case, starting this at room temp. will likely require a diacetyl rest.

After pitching it was at 70-72 degrees for an hour or so, then I placed it in the freezer which was at 52 degrees. I used the Wyeast Munich Lager pack, and had activated it a couple of hours before pitching. See the picture below for a view of the batch appx 10 minutes before I placed it in the freezer. Its hard to see, but there was a good cascade going on inside too.

what was the OG of the wort?

sounds like you did not make a starter out of the Munich Lager, correct?

also, you're gonna have to upload a pic to picasa or photobucket, then link it from there to post pics.

how much yeast did you add? lagers need significantly more yeast than ales because of the low temps.

typically you cool the wort to 50F then pitch the yeast. that way they don't go into thermal shock like yours did. the yeast are just sleepy but will wake up and get to work soon enough. like menschmaschine said because you pitched warm you may think about doing a diacetyl rest. toward the end of fermentation raise the temp of the beer by about 10F. then when fermentation is over drop the temps to just above freezing for 1 week per 10 points of OG. for instance if the OG was 1.050 then you would lager at 36F for 5 weeks.

its because of these complicated temperature requirements that i don't recommend lagers for beginning brewers. ales are much easier. just set the temp once (typically 68F) then walk away for 3 weeks.

I just used the packet as the recipe called for, no starter. The OG was 1.063, as the recipe said it should be. I will remember to pitch at a cooler temp next time. I started this batch because I love the original, but didn't realize the additional things required of a lager until after I had purchased and ground my grains.

I hadn't checked on it this morning yet, but before submitting this reply I checked and there is activity again, just slow. I'm assuming that, due to the cooler temp, there won't be a rapid active phase?

Thanks for the tips!!

Lagers are more work but definitely worth it. Pitch cooler and make a starter. Even with a proper pitch of yeast you will not see an "explosive" fermentation but it will form a nice thick krausen and your airlock will bubble happily away.

GT

http://www.mrmalty.com/calc/calc.html

lagers need a lot of yeast. i think you're slow fermentation is the result of under-pitching. i just made an oktoberfest, and i made 4L of starter out of two smack packs.

1/3 of the beer I brew is lager. I brew all-grain 3 times a week.

The best method to determine where you are in a fermentation cycle is to check the gravity of the beer. This will give an accurate indication of your fermentation status. I recommend a lager gets 2X as much yeast pitched as an ale.

If your gravity reading indicates fermentation is not complete and there are no signs of fermentation, I recommend ramping up the temperature 2 degrees F per day until one of the following occurs:

1. you see signs of fermentation
2. you reach 65 degrees F

3-4 weeks for fermentation for a lager is a norm. 3 weeks if it doesn't get stuck. 4 weeks if it sticks and you ramp up the temperature slowly.

ECbeerman said:

I just used the packet as the recipe called for, no starter.

Click to expand...

well there's your problem. one packet of yeast is not going to be enough for a lager fermentation. next time go here and calculate how much yeast you need.

wow...the more I read, the more confused I become. The recipe I followed was out of Clone Brews, for Xingu Black Beer. It is as follows:

crush and steep in 1 gallon 150F water for 20 min
*1/2 lb German Vienna Malt
*12oz 80L Crystal Malt
*12oz US Chocolate Malt
*2oz US Black Malt

Strain the grain water into brew pot. Sparge the grains with 1/2 gallon water at 150F. Add water to brew pot for 1.5 gallons total volume. Bring to a boil, remove pot from stove, then add:
*6.5lb M&F light DME
*4oz dark brown sugar
*1/2oz Yakima Magnum @ 14% AA (bittering)

Add water until the total volume is 2.5 gallons. Boil for 50 min, then add;
*1/2oz German Hallertau Hersbrucker (flavor)
*1 tsp Irish Moss

Boil for 10 min, remove pot from stove. Add cold water to 5 gallon total volume, and cool wort until under 80F.

When under 80F, pitch yeast;
*Wyeast 2308 Munich Lager (ferment at 42F-52F for 14 days, then 57F-62F for the remainder of fermentation)

Ferment in the primary fermenter 5-7 days or until fermentation slows, then siphon into the secondary. Bottle when fermentation is complete with;
*1.25cups M&F wheat DME
______________________

I have followed the recipe exactly as written so far. At first, there was no activity in the carboy since I placed the 72F wort in a 50F deep freeze. After 48 hours there is krausen again and I switched from a blow off, to an airlock. I am seeing slow bubbles in airlock.

Does it sound as if this may come out alright? Is there anything I can do at this point to "tweak" things? The recipe mentions raising the temp for part of the primary, I'm assuming this is for diacetyl rest. It does not however mention a lagering period. Thanks for all of the tips so far, I hope this works out...and doesn't take 2 months to finish!!

You pitched your yeast at 80F? That seems kinda high to me. i am no expert and did my first lager last week but I got it down to 55 before I aerated and pitched.

i think your main problem is not enough yeast.

raising temp, yeah that's the D-rest.

i would pitch when you're at ferment temps.

sorry, no. I pitched at 72F. Can I add more yeast after 72 hours?

yes the temp raise is the D-rest. after its done drop the temp to around 40 or so for 1 week per 10 points of OG ... for instance if the OG was 1.055 you would lager for 5 weeks.

So once the d-rest is finished do I drop to 40 gradually, or can i take it right down?

Tomorrow will be the 7 day mark for primary fermentation. Do I need to take a gravity reading to determine when to raise the temp for D-rest, or am I safe waiting until the krausen falls back in?

It looks like it's still pretty active. Lagers tend to take longer to ferment, as they go slower. Take a gravity reading if you want, and only raise the temperature if you're at 1.020 or less. It won't hurt it to leave it longer, especially since you pitched it warm and without enough yeast. A few more days may be better. Then raise the temperature until it's finished (or about 48 hours) and rack to a new carboy and start lowering the temperature. I like to lager at 34 degrees. For this beer, you'll want to lager about 8 weeks at a cold temperature.

(I won't bash Clone Brews too much, except to say that the brewing advice in there isn't the best).

I've been pretty confident about my first batch up until this point. It's a lager (which came with very sparse directions). I pitched only one vial of yeast at about 65dF. Did I under pitch? I tasted it at 4 weeks when I transferred to secondary; it tasted like fairly decent beer (albeit under-carbonated). Have I done something irreparably wrong?