Clone Beer Founder's Breakfast Stout Clone

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The grain bill looks pretty hefty for 5 gallons. My calculator is coming out to 10+ % ABV for this recipe. What did your post boil OG come out to?
 
I brewed this back in July and I had the opportunity to do a side by side taste comparison last Friday with FBS. It was so close my wife an I had a hard time telling them apart (I'll have to mark the glasses next time). The only difference was maybe a slightly more chocolate aroma coming from the FBS. Other than that than that the recipe I brewed was spot on.

Here is the recipe with the slight variations I made:

16 lbs. American 2-row
1 lbs American Chocolate Malt
.75 lbs Roasted Barley
9 oz American Black Patent
7 oz Crystal Malt 120°L
22 oz Oats Flaked

.5 oz Nugget (Whole, 13.00 %AA) boiled 60 min.
.5 oz Mt. Hood (Pellets, 5.00 %AA) boiled 30 min.
.5 oz Mt. Hood (Pellets, 5.00 %AA) boiled 2 min.

2.5 oz Dark bittersweet baker's chocolate at 15 mins. (Ghirardelli 60% Cacao Bar)
1.5 oz Unsweetened chocolate baking nibs at 15 mins. (Ghana Cacao Nibs)
2 oz Ground Starbucks Sumatran coffee after chilling/before yeast (Cold Brewed)
2 oz of Ghana Cacao nibs with 6-8 oak cubes (American medium-plus toast) soaked in Maker’s Mark Whiskey for 1 week - added 2 weeks before bottling
2 oz Ground Kona coffee (Hula Girl 100% Kona Coffee) cold brewed, added to bottling bucket before bottling
Yeast - 2 pkg. DCL Yeast Safale S-04 Top Quality Ale Yeast (used yeast starter)

Mashed at 155F for 60 mins. 1.33 qt/lb





The grain bill looks pretty hefty for 5 gallons. My calculator is coming out to 10+ % ABV for this recipe. What did your post boil OG come out to?
 
Just wondering about the coffee type(s).

I brewed this beer with an organic South-american Arabica, which is rated 2 on 5 for roasting grade, 2 on 5 for "body" and 4 on 5 for acidity.

I didn't use 2 different types of coffee, just this one, and followed the recipe for the quantities.

During the first few weeks, say 8, the coffee taste was really in-your-face and quite "separated" from other flavors.

Then, these two problems disappeared and it became one of my favorite beers.

My question is: is anyone here able to describe what characterizes Kona + Sumatra in terms of properties, taste, intensity,..., so that I know what to look for next time I go shopping here in Switzerland?

Thanks
 
My question is: is anyone here able to describe what characterizes Kona + Sumatra in terms of properties, taste, intensity,..., so that I know what to look for next time I go shopping here in Switzerland?

some reading:
- https://ineedcoffee.com/a-world-of-coffee-flavors/
- http://www.espressocoffeeguide.com/2010/10/the-top-ten-coffees-in-the-world/
- http://www.highlandcoffeesbr.com/coffeeprofileschart.php (sumatra only)

summary: both are low acidity, sumatra has more body than kona.

personally i'm not convinced that one needs to use kona and sumatra to make this beer, or any great beer. i would pick any low-acid good coffee bean that you like.
 
I have brewed this twice and it is a favorite of SWMBO (I like all ales, it's just those yellow fizzy weak a$$ed 'beers' I cannot abide). The second time brewed this I passed on the cold brewed coffee. The coffee flavor to me still comes through and the beer seems a bit more rich. Could be my imagination, but it is likely based upon how much water is used with the 2 ounces of coffee.

Many thanks to dubbeldach for posting. Many thanks to the other contributors on this forum.

FWIW, I bottled (I don't keg) a black IPA, Java Stout, this breakfast stout, and 90 minute IPA clone (all recipes from this great forum) last month. They do taste great!
:mug:
 
I made a 10 gallon batch that I had to add 6 lbs of LME with 25 lbs of grains. I also toasted 2 lbs of 3 lbs of flaked oats I used. It went from 1.090 to 1.032 and has stayed there for a month now. I split the batch and made a chipotle spiced chocolate stout and the other half a kbs style clone.

Is there anything I can do to get it to attenuate further? I kegged the chipotle spiced chocolate stout and it is good, but has more sweetness than I would like at the moment. I still have the kbs sitting on coffee beans and nibs. Was debating on adding some dry yeast or any other options to get it to ferment any further.

I mashed at 154, along with the 6lbs of lme that boiled for over 60 minutes. I wasn't sure if it is just complex sugars left or if I didn't pitch enough yeast which is what I am leaning towards. I used a new pack of denny's favorite and did a 1.6l starter which I decanted and then used third runnings to have a 1.8l active starter pitched the next day from the stir plate. I am thinking I underpitched, but was not sure if anything else can be done at this point. I have rocked the carboys a few times to see if it would help kick up fermentation, but did not seem to do much. It was brewed 11/5/16 so its been almost 2 months.

Just checking if there are any options to work with on this. Otherwise it will be kegged soon. My last version of this I took to burning man went from 1.112 to 1.033. I figure that one was fine on final attenuation, but I stretched this one out to get 10 gallons. Similar final gravity, but 20 points less on starting gravity.
 
A 1.6-1.8L starter isn't much, I have read that some research has.shown that a 1.5ml starter should be the starting point when pitching from a smack pack or WL vial. So, I would agree that you under pitched and I have had issues with 1450 either finishing high or taking along time to fully attenuate, and have read others with the same issue. Look in the Yooper's Oatmeal Stout thread, there are some recent posts about this issue.

Have a raised the temp a little while rousing the yeast, sometimes raising 4-5 degrees will wake it up again. Otherwise you.could.build.a starter of some S-05 and pitch it at high krausen.

I would rack off of the beans and nibs when you pitch though, you'll lose some of the aroma/taste if fermentation starts again, but you don't want to leave it on the coffee for.more than a couple days in my experience.
 
Noted. What type of enzyme? Is Bean-O the go to for enzymes? I haven't used any yet. Can you make a starter for dry yeast, or would California ale work?

I had no issues letting my stout sit on coffee beans for weeks last year. It has about a month already as it is. I could add more coffee if I do get it to ferment further.

I will dive into the yooper thread for more info.
 
Noted. What type of enzyme? Is Bean-O the go to for enzymes? I haven't used any yet. Can you make a starter for dry yeast, or would California ale work?

I had no issues letting my stout sit on coffee beans for weeks last year. It has about a month already as it is. I could add more coffee if I do get it to ferment further.

I will dive into the yooper thread for more info.

Amylase enzyme
Don't go Beano. It will 100% dry it out
You can absolutely do a starter from dry yeast
Maybe toss in some sugar when you repitch to drive off some o2.
 
I ended up just pitching a packet of safale dry abbey yeast to knock it down another 5-6 points. That method will work for me forever if this comes up again. It didn't require doing anything else.
 
Making a similar version of this now. I've noticed different opinions on when to add the coffee and chocolate. I was going to add the chips,nibs and all coffee at flameout then keep them in the fermenter after I pitch. Does this sound right? I've never brewed with coffee or chocolate before
 
Just opened a bottle about 1 year after I brewed this beer, and wow it is perfect... !
 
Alright, I just read this whole thread. Took me a few days but HOLY SMOKES at the info I picked up! Thanks to EVERYONE for their input and advice and for helping us all become better Brewers!!

I am tackling this one soon and for the chocolate I'm going to be using a product called "Cholaca" out of Colorado. If you haven't seen it or used it, check it out. Makes AWESOME chocolate stouts. Using Sumatra and Kona as well. Will be a few weeks before I get to this but as soon as Brew day rolls around I will report all results (and post a picture of my brew notes. Sometimes that helps people too). Very excited to go down the rabbit hole on this one!!
 
Cool you read the whole thread, I really wanted to brew this, but I cant make 10g easy and the calories.
 
Why would you need to make 10g, the recipe is for a 5gal batch? If you can't fit the grain bill in your mash tun or kettle then just do a batch that you can handle and scale the ingredients down.
 
I'm often confused by applescrap's comments/threads, but it assume it is sarcasm followed by facts that his/her system can't handle 10g of it and he/she's waistline can't handle it either.
I, on the other hand, have a system big enough and could give a **** less about the waistline(been married too long). I just can't keep the pipeline full enough to get around to it. :)
 
@bolus sorry let me clarify . I can make 10 gallons all grain full volume in under 3 hours, but grain needs to be under 22 pounds until I buy a new pot or I would have to do some sort of batch sparge. I want to make 10 g because I only want to brew once. I am feeling to lazy to sparge and yes, my waistline cant handle it anyways. I will be making an oktoberfest, 10g, in 3 hours probably tomorrow. I have same problem keeping pipeline going but I might make 5 of this after the marzen.
 
I just recently tasted the Founders BS. I loved it. I came across this thread while searching for a clone and as always this site provided me with some great reading.

I have a question and it may be a stupid one but here goes. I have not brewed any stout yet with coffee. Being very sensitive to caffeine in my later years, do I have to worry about it if I brew this beer? I love coffee and coffee taste of stouts but do not handle caffeine anymore. De-caf only for this guy,

Thanks.
 
I just recently tasted the Founders BS. I loved it. I came across this thread while searching for a clone and as always this site provided me with some great reading.

I have a question and it may be a stupid one but here goes. I have not brewed any stout yet with coffee. Being very sensitive to caffeine in my later years, do I have to worry about it if I brew this beer? I love coffee and coffee taste of stouts but do not handle caffeine anymore. De-caf only for this guy,

Thanks.
Yes, if you're sensitive to caffeine this recipe will cause issues. I'd recommend to get the best beans you can, in decaf.

I'm sensitive somewhat as well. Can't drink anything with caffeine after about 11 am, otherwise I'm up all night. One of these beers has the same effect.
 
I just recently tasted the Founders BS. I loved it. I came across this thread while searching for a clone and as always this site provided me with some great reading.

I have a question and it may be a stupid one but here goes. I have not brewed any stout yet with coffee. Being very sensitive to caffeine in my later years, do I have to worry about it if I brew this beer? I love coffee and coffee taste of stouts but do not handle caffeine anymore. De-caf only for this guy,

Thanks.

I have always wondered this to. Decaf is the quick answer, but I investigated a little further. I use 16 oz cold brew at kegging. Assuming 5g at kegging that is 640 oz. 16/640 gives .025. So the beer is thus 2.5 percent coffee. That same 16oz used as a pint one would drink times 2.5 percent is .4 oz. Basically a splash. Makes me think you could splash any stout with a little coffee for good affect. Taken one step further that means that if one were to drink 3 pints they would ingest approx 1.2oz, a shot glass, of coffee. Hope this helps and that my numbers are right.
 
I have always wondered this to. Decaf is the quick answer, but I investigated a little further. I use 16 oz cold brew at kegging. Assuming 5g at kegging that is 640 oz. 16/640 gives .025. So the beer is thus 2.5 percent coffee. That same 16oz used as a pint one would drink times 2.5 percent is .4 oz. Basically a splash. Makes me think you could splash any stout with a little coffee for good affect. Taken one step further that means that if one were to drink 3 pints they would ingest approx 1.2oz, a shot glass, of coffee. Hope this helps and that my numbers are right.
I did the same, but you need to factor in that the cold brew is a concentrate (normally people mix with milk). Thus the mg/l of caffeine is higher.

Using average cold brew contrate numbers (keeping in mind results at the individual level can vary widely), I'm putting around 1000 mg of caffeine in my 5 gallon kegs (1 qt of cold brew).

Works out to a about 1.5 mg/oz. If I recall, drip coffee is about 10 mg/oz. In a 12 oz beer, we're at 18mg of caffiene. Not a whole lot, unless you're sensitive to it. I also fond it rare that I only drink 12 oz of beer[emoji1]
 
I did the same, but you need to factor in that the cold brew is a concentrate (normally people mix with milk). Thus the mg/l of caffeine is higher.

Using average cold brew contrate numbers (keeping in mind results at the individual level can vary widely), I'm putting around 1000 mg of caffeine in my 5 gallon kegs (1 qt of cold brew).

Works out to a about 1.5 mg/oz. If I recall, drip coffee is about 10 mg/oz. In a 12 oz beer, we're at 18mg of caffiene. Not a whole lot, unless you're sensitive to it. I also fond it rare that I only drink 12 oz of beer[emoji1]
Yeah cold brew is a little stronger for sure. Help me understand your numbers a little better, starbucks reports 12.5 mg caffeine per cold brew oz. They make strong cold brew and I use similar concentrates. That means 1000mg of caffeine would be near 80oz of cold brew. A full half gallon and a pint more. Thats a lot of cold brew even by my standards. Cutting that in half, using your math, that would mean 40oz of cold brew, yielding approx 9mg (equal to 1oz of brewed coffee) of caffeine per 12oz beer. Meaning that since no one can drink just one[emoji3] having 5 12oz beers would equal one 5oz cup of coffee and that would keep one up. Are you sure you are putting in 1000mg of caffeine?
 
Yeah cold brew is a little stronger for sure. Help me understand your numbers a little better, starbucks reports 12.5 mg caffeine per cold brew oz. They make strong cold brew and I use similar concentrates. That means 1000mg of caffeine would be near 80oz of cold brew. A full half gallon and a pint more. Thats a lot of cold brew even by my standards. Cutting that in half, using your math, that would mean 40oz of cold brew, yielding approx 9mg (equal to 1oz of brewed coffee) of caffeine per 12oz beer. Meaning that since no one can drink just one[emoji3] having 5 12oz beers would equal one 5oz cup of coffee and that would keep one up. Are you sure you are putting in 1000mg of caffeine?
Being sure in my mind involves a lab, so no.

I didn't find Starbucks to be a very reliable source. Checking their facts in my app just now:


16oz
Nitro: 200mg
Nitro with splash of sweet cream: 325
Narino: 200
Narino with milk: 200mg

As you can see, not too reliable. I'm particularly interested in how the same drink with sweet cream added somehow adds 125mg. Possible that the normal includes ice, resulting in less coffee and the cream doesnt i guess.If I recall they clock their 11oz bottled version at 280 as well.

Back to your specific question, I used the average of a few that I'd found online (besides starbucks).

With all that said, my original comments really come from my experience. Since caffeine content in coffee is highly variable, you probably can't use any number reliably, but I know full well I'm sensitive to caffeine, causing insomnia if consumed after around 12pm. These beers cause that if I have a few (and no others normal beers to chase as a "nightcap").
 
Need some advice...like an impatient idiot I didnt read through the thread before I brewed this yesterday, I just read the recipe and ran with it. At flameout I added Starbucks pre-ground sumatran, which obviously wasn't coarse. I noticed when racking to my fermenter that a lot of fine coffee grounds passed through my strainer.

When I rack to secondary I plan on using a couple paint filter bags on my siphon but I'm sure some of those fine grounds will still make it through. Will cold crashing at the end of secondary force them to settle to the bottom or am I going to have to eat my beer?
 
Need some advice...like an impatient idiot I didnt read through the thread before I brewed this yesterday, I just read the recipe and ran with it. At flameout I added Starbucks pre-ground sumatran, which obviously wasn't coarse. I noticed when racking to my fermenter that a lot of fine coffee grounds passed through my strainer.

When I rack to secondary I plan on using a couple paint filter bags on my siphon but I'm sure some of those fine grounds will still make it through. Will cold crashing at the end of secondary force them to settle to the bottom or am I going to have to eat my beer?

I would suspect most of it will fall out in primary and sit under the yeast cake once the yeast settles.
 
Ok I've read this entire thread. Wow! Great to see how long this has run and the interest people have in brewing this great beer.

Many pages have talked about the addition of coffee and I'm more confused on what to do but in the end I'll get that figured out. What I did notice is that very little was said about a water profile or the mash pH on this big grain bill. With that said, I have entered my water test results from Ward Labs and used the suggested water profile of Black Balanced as suggested in the thread into Bru'n Water. My well water is extremely hard so I use RO water from my own system to get the numbers right. Here is what I have come up with. What do you guys think? Founders Breakfast Stout.png
 
Well never heard anything on my profile so I brewed this and it's been 2 weeks tomorrow. Transferring to the secondary . Can't wait to taste it.
 
Mine turned out great. Its only been bottled for 12 days and already amazing, cant wait to try it in another couple weeks. I forgot to cold crash but still didn't have any issues with fine coffee grinds making it to the bottles.
 
Mine turned out great. Its only been bottled for 12 days and already amazing, cant wait to try it in another couple weeks. I forgot to cold crash but still didn't have any issues with fine coffee grinds making it to the bottles.

By what I read in your post I'm thinking you put the 2.5 ounces of grounds in your secondary. I read the entire thread and was totally lost on which way to add the final coffee addition. I'm leaning towards cold press coffee in the bottling bucket. By doing it that way I can control the final taste. How long did you have them in the secondary before bottling? How much coffee taste did you have at that time? By reading all the posts, sounds like it all mellows with time. Still undecided.
 
By what I read in your post I'm thinking you put the 2.5 ounces of grounds in your secondary. I read the entire thread and was totally lost on which way to add the final coffee addition. I'm leaning towards cold press coffee in the bottling bucket. By doing it that way I can control the final taste. How long did you have them in the secondary before bottling? How much coffee taste did you have at that time? By reading all the posts, sounds like it all mellows with time. Still undecided.
Not exactly. My original concern was that I used pre-ground coffee during the boil instead of the recommended coarse ground beans. When I was transferring from my boil pot to my fermenter I noticed some of the fine grounds got through my filter and was worried some would end up in my bottles. My plan was to cold crash to prevent this but I forgot to. It didn't end up mattering, all of the fine grounds must have sank into the yeast cake.

I used Sumatra coffee grounds at flameout and added cold-brewed Kona to my bottling bucket. 2 weeks primary, one month secondary for me.
 
By what I read in your post I'm thinking you put the 2.5 ounces of grounds in your secondary. I read the entire thread and was totally lost on which way to add the final coffee addition. I'm leaning towards cold press coffee in the bottling bucket. By doing it that way I can control the final taste. How long did you have them in the secondary before bottling? How much coffee taste did you have at that time? By reading all the posts, sounds like it all mellows with time. Still undecided.

I never add coffee to the secondary. I basically steep my coffee at the end of the boil in a hop sock. Once the wort is done cooling, I remove the coffee before transferring it to my fermentor.

I do a cold press for my 2nd coffee addition at bottling and it works GREAT so that's what I would recommend...
 
I never add coffee to the secondary. I basically steep my coffee at the end of the boil in a hop sock. Once the wort is done cooling, I remove the coffee before transferring it to my fermentor.

I do a cold press for my 2nd coffee addition at bottling and it works GREAT so that's what I would recommend...

Sounds good. Would you mind sharing how you do it? There were many versions on cold press coffee. How much did you add? Thanks and I'm getting excited to taste the final brew. The only thing I'm working with is my well water is extremely hard so I had to install a RO filter system. I then need to work on a water profile for my beers and that is finally starting to make sense to me. Hope this profile was right.

Thanks again.
 
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