OMG the water!

So, I've been making pretty decent beer for a couple of years, but my IPAs and especially IIPAs have been missing that characteristic sharp hop bittering attack I wanted. Even my pale ales--still tasty beers--but lacking the exact hop character I was looking for.

I tried a couple of things to correct this--changed hop providers a couple times, made sure I was getting a roiling boil for full utilization, upping bittering quantities--but nothing worked. For some reason, I had avoided looking at the water, since I just assumed that my water was at least average hardness. Well, finally, I researched the city water profile of my city (Vancouver, Canada)--which, btw, for any other BC brewers, is available here. And found that our water hardness is a shocking < 3 mg/L (ppm)! Calcium and Sulphate are < 1, Mg < 0.2, and Sodium < 7. Talk about the low end of the scale. OMG of course it was the water, I tell myself.

Anyway, I downloaded the ezwatercalculator spreadsheet and got some idea about what I should add to my water for the IPA I suddenly got super excited about brewing.

Thanks again to everyone on this site for making people better brewers everywhere. Even me.

Congrats on finding that out!! Makes me want to check my local water.

Gypsum

Yeah maybe 1/2 tsp of gypsum in the mash and the other half in the kettle during the boil should do the trick. You really need more calcium at the least regardless of style. I think the recommended minimum amount is something like 50ppm for proper yeast nutrition.

Actually, according to ezcalc, I should be adding 6g of gypsum each (about 1 1/2 tsp) to the mash and sparge water, or 3 tsp total. And 8g total of Calcium Chloride and 4g total Epsom salt. Does that sound right?

I'd start with 6g CaSO4 in the mash only.

What you want, more than the sulfate, is the calcium to lower the mash pH and keep your yeasties healthy.

Batinse said:

Actually, according to ezcalc, I should be adding 6g of gypsum each (about 1 1/2 tsp) to the mash and sparge water, or 3 tsp total. And 8g total of Calcium Chloride and 4g total Epsom salt. Does that sound right?

Click to expand...

I would stay away from the epsom salt- the malt should have plenty of magnesium and you can get the sulfate from gypsum.

I wouldn't add any "sparge" salts the first time, just use the mash additions.

So, 6g gypsum and 6g CaSO4 to the mash only? For, say, a certain someone's 60 min IPA recipe?

Batinse said:

So, 6g gypsum and 6g CaSO4 to the mash only? For, say, a certain someone's 60 min IPA recipe?

Click to expand...

Gypsum = CaS04 so one addition is fine.

You can add some CaCl2 also, if the calcium is still low (it shouldn't be), and the chloride is low.

I'd probably be a bit more moderate, depending on the actual sulfate level, and go with a bit less gypsum and a tad bit of CaCl2.

Ahh that makes sense. Thanks, Yooper.

From Terry Foster (Pale Ales) you need about 100 ppm Ca, 200 ppm SO4, and 30 ppm Cl2 for an American IPA.
The spreadsheet should help you achieve that without much trouble. FWIW, I have found his recommendations to be very good.

-a.

You have extraordinarily and consistently soft water. My water is so hard, that even after reverse osmosis, it's still probably not as soft as yours. Consider your water to be more or less equivalent to distilled water from a mineral standpoint. My guess is that you probably make excellent lighter styles of beer (lagers, blones, etc), but your hoppy beers and your roasty beers(stouts and porters) are often lacking something.

So now that we have that covered.

https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f128/brewing-water-chemistry-primer-198460/

I'll cut out the important part:

Baseline: Add 1 tsp of calcium chloride dihydrate (what your LHBS sells) to each 5 gallons of water treated. Add 2% sauermalz to the grist.

Deviate from the baseline as follows:

For soft water beers (i.e Pils, Helles). Use half the baseline amount of calcium chloride and increase the sauermalz to 3%

For beers that use roast malt (Stout, porter): Skip the sauermalz.

For British beers: Add 1 tsp gypsum as well as 1 tsp calcium chloride

For very minerally beers (Export, Burton ale): Double the calcium chloride and the gypsum.

These recommendations should get you a good beer if not the best beer. To get the best you should vary the amounts of the added salts noting carefully whether a change benefits or detriments your enjoyment of the beer. Additional sulfate will sharpen the perceived hops bitterness. Additional chloride will round, smooth and sweeten the beer. Add or decrease these in small amounts.

Click to expand...

You might find that you don't quite need as much calcium chloride as recommended, but you can play around with that. Sauermalz is more commonly referred to as acidulated malt or acid malt.

Thanks y'all. That's some great advice. I'm excited to see how my upcoming IPA turns out.

I didn't think it was possible, but I have water envy!

My water is hard, and alkaline. I have to buy reverse osmosis water to dilute it (or I could preboil it). I would love to have such a blank slate of good water to use- you can make any beer style easily with that water. I'm jealous.

Yooper said:

I didn't think it was possible, but I have water envy!

My water is hard, and alkaline. I have to buy reverse osmosis water to dilute it (or I could preboil it). I would love to have such a blank slate of good water to use- you can make any beer style easily with that water. I'm jealous.

Click to expand...

+1.

A little Epsom Salt won't hurt anything, but you really need to keep it on the low end. If you have an alternative, use it. Magnesium is a laxative. There are recommended maximums for brewing that are way lower than what it would take to give a noticeable effect on your gut though.

Having a clean slate would be great. The fact that the city now adds chloramine to my water also sucks pretty bad. Luckily some campden tabs will cure that instantly.

I have well water that is very similar to yours (soft). I usually add 1 TSP of calcium chloride and 1/2 TSP of gypsum to the mash, and leave it at that. Unfortunately I started doing this almost as soon as I begun brewing, so I don't know if my IPAs are "better" than not doing mineral additions.

Before I ventured into all grain (about 2 months ago) the first thing I did was have my water tested and invest in beersmith. So far, after several batches the ezwater calculator has been extremely accurate and very simple to use. My water falls kind of in the middle when talking about hardness and alkalinity. With a few additions (more so with IPA's than browns) I can brew any style.

Why stay away from the epsom salts...what are the negative effects? When I play around with that ezwater calculator...I can't get all the levels in the green range without epsom salts. Do you use them Scottland?

JGarner said:

Why stay away from the epsom salts...what are the negative effects? When I play around with that ezwater calculator...I can't get all the levels in the green range without epsom salts. Do you use them Scottland?

Click to expand...

If you have RO water, then there is no need to use epsom salts, since you can get the sulfate from another mineral AND get the benefit of another mineral without the magnesium.

If you already have too much of that other mineral, then some amount of SO4 might be the better option.

I *Think* calcium sulfate is gypsum?? In that case you gain some calcium, which is good for yeast, and sulfate, which is good for beer flavor, especially hoppy beers, and keep the magnesium low. Only a small amount of magnesium is useful, and as Yooper said, you get enough from the malt anyway.

I have found that playing with water chemistry is fun, but can be a bit of a juggling act if you obsess over it. But doing so can give you a better idea of how the minerals all work with and against each other with your water pH and Flavor.

JGarner said:

I can't get all the levels in the green range without epsom salts. Do you use them Scottland?

Click to expand...

Nope. I just follow the water primer for the most part. I use less gypsum then it recommends though, like 25% less. I've had beers place in the 40s with nothing more than calcium chloride, gypsum and acid malt.

ajf said:

From Terry Foster (Pale Ales) you need about 100 ppm Ca, 200 ppm SO4, and 30 ppm Cl2 for an American IPA.
The spreadsheet should help you achieve that without much trouble. FWIW, I have found his recommendations to be very good.

-a.

Click to expand...

I'll have to try the higher mineral reccomendations in my next batch. I've been using brun' waters style profile but dialing down the overall mineral composition. Seems like alot to me, but I've yet to compare.

I usually use a bit of epsom in my mash. Something like 1/2 -1 gram to get a bit of magnesium (10-15ppm) which palmer states is good for yeast health.

So, my LHBS doesn't have Calcium Chloride--I picked up a kilo of Gypsum though. Can I use the same stuff they have at gardening stores? Does it have to have a "food-grade" label or anything?

Can I also ask why I should only add gypsum to the mash water and not the sparge? Does this mean that I should add a bit more to the kettle, or all of it to the mash?

Batinse said:

So, my LHBS doesn't have Calcium Chloride--I picked up a kilo of Gypsum though. Can I use the same stuff they have at gardening stores? Does it have to have a "food-grade" label or anything?

Can I also ask why I should only add gypsum to the mash water and not the sparge? Does this mean that I should add a bit more to the kettle, or all of it to the mash?

Click to expand...

A KILO of gypsum? Well, you certainly have a lifetime (or longer) supply since I will use 3 grams per batch, or less.

You need the calcium chloride, though, if you're starting with RO/distilled or water with a low chloride and calcium amount.

Batinse said:

I picked up a kilo of Gypsum

Click to expand...

Sounds illegal lol

Yooper said:

A KILO of gypsum? Well, you certainly have a lifetime (or longer) supply since I will use 3 grams per batch, or less.

You need the calcium chloride, though, if you're starting with RO/distilled or water with a low chloride and calcium amount.

Click to expand...

I hope you are going to live longer than that.
3g per batch, brewing once every other week will last you about 13 years.
I use about 9 - 10g per batch (I use it for flavoring as well as the mash), so it would last me about 4 years, which reminds me. I need to buy another kilo.

-a.

Batinse, if you find a local source for CaCl post it. I have been looking for some myself as Victoria water is just as soft. It is not so easy to find here. Buying some from morebeer is just silly as it is multiples for just the shipping. One could probably buy a 50lb bag for the same cost of 1lb.
You should ask the folks in the Vancouver brew club, I bet someone there has bought a sack or knows where to get it. The Vancouver Homebrewers Association

Hey TimT...I found some at Famous Foods, on Kingsway between Knight and Victoria St. Grab some there next time you're in town. I haven't mingled with the VHA yet, but I've been itching. Maybe this will give me the right incentive!

ajf said:

I hope you are going to live longer than that.
3g per batch, brewing once every other week will last you about 13 years.
I use about 9 - 10g per batch (I use it for flavoring as well as the mash), so it would last me about 4 years, which reminds me. I need to buy another kilo.

-a.

Click to expand...

Hahaha- but I don't use it in EVERY brew. So, maybe only every other brew or every third brew. So I might run through a kilo in 20 years!

BigTerp said:

I'll have to try the higher mineral reccomendations in my next batch. I've been using brun' waters style profile but dialing down the overall mineral composition. Seems like alot to me, but I've yet to compare.

I usually use a bit of epsom in my mash. Something like 1/2 -1 gram to get a bit of magnesium (10-15ppm) which palmer states is good for yeast health.

Click to expand...

I've been using that Pale Ale profile shown in Bru'n Water for almost 10 years now. 300 ppm sulfate is not too much. It helps produce a nice sharp bittering for my American Ales. My Am. Brown Ale managed to score a 42 and a 43 at the Florida State Fair competition under judging by two National judges. Water is a compliment in that beer, not overbearing. My Pale is pretty tasty too. Don't be afraid. Besides, how do you find out where the edge is if you don't get close to it!

Magnesium is also a nice flavor enhancer in American Ales. You don't want to add to much though. That 10 to 15 ppm range is not a bad number.

mabrungard said:

how do you find out where the edge is if you don't get close to it!

Click to expand...

right, of course!

Right. So I added 15 g Gypsum (roughly two heaping teaspoons), 3 g CaCl (almost a tsp) and 4g Epsom Salt (1/2 tsp?) to my water for Yooper's DFH 60' IPA clone. Hard to tell how the bitterness is different from the other times I've tried this recipe, but the first thing I noticed was the hot break. What a difference!

It's not the first time I've been damning the whole patience-and-brewing thing while I'm waiting for this to be ready.