Help w/Pliny

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chefLenT

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I'm new to all grain and I'm brewing a batch of Pliny the Elder from AHB tomorrow.I'm using brewsmith and I'm not sure which mash profile to select.My equipment is 48qt. cooler and 8.75 gal. brewpot.Also,should I lower the brewhouse efficiency since I don't have extra grain to compensate for batch sparging ?Or run to my LHBS and get some?
11.54 lbs. pale malt
.88 lbs. carapils
.25 lbs. crystal 40
 
I just created my own profile in beersmith since I have a Coleman Xtreme 72qt cooler. I would get the extra grain if you can. I did the recipe from Zymurgy and although it is a little on the cloudy side I think it came out pretty close to the real thing
 
I would lower the brewhouse efficiency just because it's your first time, and mistakes happen.

Do you have any DME or LME? I usually keep some on hand in case I miss my target preboil gravity, so I can just throw a pound or two in and bump it back up at the beginning of the boil.


I'm not sure what you mean by extra grain to compensate for batch sparging. There is nothing inherently inefficient about batch sparging IME. I have gotten 90% efficiency in my cooler doing batch sparging.

Unless you've done a few/several AG batches and are consistently getting lower efficiency, I would NOT add extra grain to the recipe. I would do as I mentioned above with adjusting your preboil using DME or LME. The problem is that if you get normal or good efficiency, say, because AHS mills the grain finer than you're used to, then you could end up being way higher than your target gravity which is harder to adjust for if you have a smaller BK and fermenter.
 
I just created my own profile in beersmith since I have a Coleman Xtreme 72qt cooler. I would get the extra grain if you can. I did the recipe from Zymurgy and although it is a little on the cloudy side I think it came out pretty close to the real thing
x2 on the cloudy. it's pretty good stuff though. i based mine on the Zymurgy version and i upped the malt and added extra Simcoe in the boil. It's damn drinkable stuff. :rockin:
 
x2 on the cloudy. it's pretty good stuff though. i based mine on the Zymurgy version and i upped the malt and added extra Simcoe in the boil. It's damn drinkable stuff. :rockin:

It was the first IIPA I ever made and since hops prices are at reasonable levels again I will be brewing it again soon
 
If this is one of your first all grain beers, I would wait on this beer. You want to nail this one by th enumbers if you are going to spend that much IMO
 
If this is one of your first all grain beers, I would wait on this beer. You want to nail this one by th enumbers if you are going to spend that much IMO
+1
that is an expensive hop bill for a first AG attempt. I would start with some easy beers, perhaps some SMaSH's to dial in your process.
 
If this is one of your first all grain beers, I would wait on this beer. You want to nail this one by th enumbers if you are going to spend that much IMO

+1 do a simple recipe such as a Bitter or SMaSH, or the like, something very KISS.

For example:
8 lbs MO
1 lb Crystal 60L
.5 lb Victory or Toasted malt

1 oz Saaz or Fuggles or Kent Goldings 60min
.5 oz Kent goldings 20 min

Mash @ 154 for 60-75 minutes
boil for 90 minutes

This recipe is simple and inexpensive (these are the two major pointsto be concerned with brewing your first AG) dial in your process with your first AG then once you are comfortable with it brew something at a higher level.

I know with my first AG, I brewed a very simple 5 gallon batch basically what I listed above to make sure I would end up with a very drinakble beer that was most importantly easy to make. Just my .02c
 
Yeah sorry to crap on your parade but it's not an easy AG recipe to do. It's not like launching a space shuttle hard but it definitely is more difficult.
 
i saw screw the naysayers and dive right in! ;) it's not like it won't be drinkable in the end. how better to learn than by trying a difficult recipe?

mine was partial mash btw! got no room or time for AG right now. ;)
 
it's not like it won't be drinkable in the end.
It will definitely be drinkable but if I spent the money for that hop bill I would want to be certain that it turned out to the best it could be. Like I said before it's not impossible to do but more difficult. My first AG brew was intended to get the process down.

It's fine if you're already set on making it but if you had another brew ready to do it MIGHT be something to think about. If you're confident about it go for it! :)
 
I say if you are comfortable with the process, go for it. Adding hops X times isnt terribly more difficult than adding hops Y times. Once the grain is crushed, its not like that matters. Dry hopping with 3 varieties is no more difficult than DH with 1. If you want Pliny, read, rehearse, do.
 
I'm new to all grain and I'm brewing a batch of Pliny the Elder from AHB tomorrow.

I say go for it! It really isn't that difficult a beer to brew, other than there are a lot of hops additions. I've got a thread here that has the original recipe from Zymurgy, with the modifications I made to the grain bill to account for my relatively low efficiency. I've brewed 2 batches, and will brew my 3rd batch this weekend. It is the best beer I've ever brewed. :mug:

Probably the biggest thing you will have to deal with is since this is your first all grain, you have no idea what your efficiency will be. You might be low 60's, and you might be 80's. I've had poor luck with kits from AHB and others because most of them are designed for an efficiency of 75%, and my efficiency is around 65%. I like Brewmasters warehouse because you can build your own brew with their Brewbuilder, and can easily scale any recipe. I just increase the grain to match my efficiency. And Brewmasters crush is great.

To account for your unknown efficiency, I would keep a couple of pounds of LME or DME on hand so you can add some near the end of your boil if your OG is too low. You really want to try and hit the OG of 1.072 for this beer.

And not sure why others are cloudy... mine is crystal clear. I use whirlfloc in the boil, and gelatin in the keg.
 
Probably the biggest thing you will have to deal with is since this is your first all grain, you have no idea what your efficiency will be. You might be low 60's, and you might be 80's.

It's THIS variability that would make me hesitant to do this as my first AG beer. It's not the fact that it's a harder beer to brew, it's because it's a more expensive beer to brew and AG has much more variability in the process. Like I said, if you're confident and set on it do it up.
 
I really appreciate all the input.The kit just arrived from UPS.And I may be crazy but I am going to brew it tomorrow.I think I'll use the Single infusion,med. body,batch sparge for the mash profile on beersmith.Or should I use the light body?
 
It's THIS variability that would make me hesitant to do this as my first AG beer. It's not the fact that it's a harder beer to brew, it's because it's a more expensive beer to brew and AG has much more variability in the process. Like I said, if you're confident and set on it do it up.

Like I said, even if he misses his target preboil gravity, all he has to do is add some extract to fix it and do the hop additions like normal. It's not THAT big of a problem.
 
I really appreciate all the input.The kit just arrived from UPS.And I may be crazy but I am going to brew it tomorrow.I think I'll use the Single infusion,med. body,batch sparge for the mash profile on beersmith.Or should I use the light body?

You are not crazy. Honestly, if it were me I would probably do the same because once I'm set on something I have to do it. You will be fine with it. The only thing I was getting at was that 5-10 all grain batches down the road if you made the same kit it MIGHT turn out better. HOWEVER, it will be an awesome beer and you will love it. Frankly, it might be the best beer to brew to completely hook you on the AG process! :D

Like I said, even if he misses his target preboil gravity, all he has to do is add some extract to fix it and do the hop additions like normal. It's not THAT big of a problem.

You are right. But there are other variables like missed mash temps which affect fermentability and flavor. Not a huge deal but I'm a perfectionist with some things.
 
I really appreciate all the input.The kit just arrived from UPS.And I may be crazy but I am going to brew it tomorrow.

One other thing... pitch a big starter if you are using liquid yeast. It is a big beer. Or I've been pitching 2 packs of US-05 and getting great results. Make sure you have a blowoff tube!

I do a single infusion mash at 152 with batch sparge. I end up with about 8 gallons at the start of the boil, 1.5 gallons boiled off, and 0.5 gallons of hop losses (It has a lot of hops in it!), for a total of 6 gallons into the fermenter.
 
For beersmith I always choose "single infusion, medium body, batch sparge". I think this is the norm around here but not sure.
 
:off: A brew bud and i did our first AG last weekend and we just tossed some stuff together that sounded good. We did miss our eff. but what the heck (low to mid 60%ish). 5# MO, 5#munich, 1#crys60, 3oz choc. and some DME. OG 1.072 LHBS was short on yeast. had to go with oct fest and AM wheat. it smells good!

it was great fun
 
One other thing... pitch a big starter if you are using liquid yeast. It is a big beer. Or I've been pitching 2 packs of US-05 and getting great results. Make sure you have a blowoff tube!

I do a single infusion mash at 152 with batch sparge. I end up with about 8 gallons at the start of the boil, 1.5 gallons boiled off, and 0.5 gallons of hop losses (It has a lot of hops in it!), for a total of 6 gallons into the fermenter.

I'm using a 5 gallon batch size in beersmith,should I change that to 6 gallon ?
 
Frankly, it might be the best beer to brew to completely hook you on the AG process! :D
That's true probably of everyone's first all grain batch. once you make the jump from extract and nail it, it is amazing. For me I'm not sure if I had all grain to start again that I would attempt pliny. All of you know that once your AG process and efficiency are dialed in that your beers go from good to wow. I think it is a big beer to attempt for a first AG and would really strongly recommend something easier, ie a SMaSH. Once you make this beer again later on (which you will- it is amazing), once your process is dialed, you will think about how much better this pliny is than your first experimental batch. I would want to save that beer until a few AG's in, if anything for cost/benefit ratio (considering the price of that hop bill)
If you are going for it, then good luck, attention to detail!!!:mug:
 
Glad to see I sparked a debate here.

Whatever you decide, just pay attention and take a lot of notes. Try to get everything ready ahead of time and think of things that may come up, which will be hard since it is the first time. Like what are you going to do if you get a stuck sparge? What if you are not at your correct mash temp? What if you don't hit your preboil gravity? etc.. etc...
 
For the record this recipe is no harder that any other all grain recipe, so it has a few more hop additions, no big deal. My biggest concern for you is the 90 minute boil, if you don't have your process down you could boil off a lot of wort.

Have some boiled cooled water handy in case you need to add some. Print out your brewsheet from beersmith and PAY attention to it. Always go at least 5-8degrees warmer on your strike water, it's easier to get rid of degrees (stirring) than add them. A split batch sparge should increase your efficiency.

If you do one make sure your first split is 185F to 190f, that will ensure your grain bed makes it to 170f. Go for it, it's not heart surgery.:mug:
 
For the record this recipe is no harder that any other all grain recipe, so it has a few more hop additions, no big deal. My biggest concern for you is the 90 minute boil, if you don't have your process down you could boil off a lot of wort.

Have some boiled cooled water handy in case you need to add some. Print out your brewsheet from beersmith and PAY attention to it. Always go at least 5-8degrees warmer on your strike water, it's easier to get rid of degrees (stirring) than add them. A split batch sparge should increase your efficiency.

If you do one make sure your first split is 185F to 190f, that will ensure your grain bed makes it to 170f. Go for it, it's not heart surgery.:mug:
This was a must for me. 90min is a long time to boil anything. I kept 3 gallons in reserve in an old Mr Beer barrel. I had roughly 4gal on wort after the 90.
 
I'm using a 5 gallon batch size in beersmith,should I change that to 6 gallon ?

Your recipe size is determined by how much grain you have, and since your kit grains are already mixed/crushed, you really can't alter it at this point. I'd stick with the volumes they specify in the kit. You may end up with a little less beer, but hopefully it will be better quality and you will be able to reproduce your results more easily.
 
Well,I finished brewing it and I wanted to give any one that is interested an update.The first issue I had was my mash was losing heat,so I deceided to add about 1 gal. of hot water to it to get the temp back up to 154.And I deducted this 1 gal. from the batch sparge water.This all yielded about 6.75 gal. at 1.048 gravity.Then I added hops and 1 pound sugar per the recipe.After 90 minute boil it yielded 5 gal. at 1.077 gravity.I thought this yield was low and it looked like all hops in the fermenter so I added 1 gal. water and yeast to end up at 1.066 gravity with 6 gal. in the fermenter.The recipe said I should have ended up at 1.074 OG and 5.25 gal.I would appreciate any input on my process....
 
you hit the target gravity, but then you added water. you thinned out the wort. you added water and diluted it, that why your gravity went down. it will still be a good beer, but you prob should have just stuck with the 5 gallons at .077. you lowered the ABV by adding water. the batch size isnt quite as important as the target gravity- to me anyways. I want to hit target gravities to be sure i have as much ABV as i want. I am not always concerned with an extra half gallon or gallon. but thats just me. you did fine, it just wont be quite as strong as it could have been. but you are going to get 6 gallons of beer instead of five.

:rockin:
 
You had it nailed! All you needed to do was use the dilution tool in beersmith, you only needed to add a quart to be good. 5.25 gallons at your target gravity would have been near perfect.

You got sacked by over thinking. Still not a bad result, your in for some extra hop kick in this one.
 
Good job! You will learn quite a bit the next couple times you brew and the process will become much easier, which will allow you to work on refinements. Maybe adding the last gallon and diluting was the best idea you had all day, but in the end its still gonna be great. 6 points will make it slightly less malty, and slightly more hoppy, but this is a hop bomb anyway, so its gonna be great. Learn from your mistakes, and look into why you are losing heat on the mash (how many times did you open the lid to check?). Sounds like you are well on your way.
 
Well,after 1 week in primary and two weeks in secondary and dry hopping I'm ready to bottle.But there are a lot of very fine suspended particles in it.I don't think I want this in the beer.Any ideas on what I should do.
 
Those are most likely from dry hopping and nothing to worry about. You could try fining with gelatin but that might not even work.

You wont notice them and your beer will be full of hoppy goodness!
 
Yeah i agree. I've dryhopped beers and they cleared a lot when i cold crashed them. Either cold crashing in secondary or when i chilled down the bottles. How do your hydrometer samples taste?!
 
cold crash it! i get crystal clear brew from 1-5 days cold crashing, depending on the yeast. just clear out your fridge and rationalize it to your roommate. that's what i do:drunk:
 
+1 on cold crash. If you can fit your fermentor into your fridge, put it there for a couple of days before you bottle. If not... you can just bottle and then after it has had 3 weeks @ 70 degrees to carb, a few days in the fridge to chill should let everything settle on the bottom of the bottle. I've also had very good luck with gelatin finings in the keg or bottling bucket. Beer is crystal clear after few days.
 
OK,I got it bottled and it yielded 36 12oz. bottles.When I siphoned into the bottling bucket I used a small strainer to get out some of the larger pieces that were falling from the top.Beersmith says I'll end up at 6.92% alcohol.Didn't have any way to cold crash,but thanks for the suggestions.
OG-1.066 FG-1.013.I tasted it and of course hop flavor was very strong.Seemed to have a decent amount of malt backbone too.Color-very nice amber copper.I guess it ended up being a good idea that I added a gallon of water before my primary fermentation since my yield was so low.Any more input ?
 
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